Potentially Forced Into HIMS Due To A Tattoo

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Aviator1245

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The last week of November, I went to a new AME (my old AME retired) in a effort to renew my 1st class medical. The exam was normal until he asked me to lay down for the hernia check. He noticed a tattoo on my rib cage (mind you I got this when I was 18). The tattoo is basically a pin up doll holding a glass of whiskey, and what he believed was a joint (it’s a cigar). He said he believes I have an affiliation with drug paraphernalia and deferred my medical to the FAA for further review. Now, keep in mind, IVE NEVER BEEN ARRESTED, I DO NOT do drugs, and I drink socially. I have never failed a alcohol or drug test. It’s simply because of a tattoo on my rib cage. I was baffled and thought he was joking when he deferred my application. He said there’s a chance the FAA will ask for a evaluation by a alcohol/drug addiction specialist.

What the heck do I do? Get a lawyer?
 
Dude, create an account and contact me.
 
If this isn't a troll, that AME needs to be named publicly and have their AME qualifications removed, permanently.

In all seriousness, if this was actually deferred for this reason and this reason alone, I would send a certified letter documenting everything relevant about the visit to FAA Aeromedical, in protest. If the FAA in any way condones this deferral, contact your Congressional Representative constituent services people immediately.
 
This sort of thing happens DAILY in part 121, only difference is other pilots force the evaluation. You’ll be diagnosed and admitted into rehab before EVER seeing an AME.

And the FAA couldn’t care less.

I’d be interested to know if the AME is a preferred doc at an airline. I’ve seen preferred docs assigned to pilots AFTER formal complaints have been filed. Yep, FORCED to see an AME against the will of the “patient”, under credible threat of termination.

This could be a troll, but I’ve seen far crazier. This barely makes the top ten.
 
Tools said:
This sort of thing happens DAILY in part 121, only difference is other pilots force the evaluation. You’ll be diagnosed and admitted into rehab before EVER seeing an AME.

And the FAA couldn’t care less.

I’d be interested to know if the AME is a preferred doc at an airline. I’ve seen preferred docs assigned to pilots AFTER formal complaints have been filed. Yep, FORCED to see an AME against the will of the “patient”, under credible threat of termination.

This could be a troll, but I’ve seen far crazier. This barely makes the top ten.
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This is not a troll post. I will make a account in the AM. And yes, I am a 121 pilot. This individual does deal with a lot of our pilots (I’m unsure if he’s a HIMS doc or not).
 
I wonder if this AME is also checking the female pilots for hernia. Are you sure you weren’t being propositioned?
 
Aviator1245 said:
The last week of November, I went to a new AME (my old AME retired) in a effort to renew my 1st class medical. The exam was normal until he asked me to lay down for the hernia check. He noticed a tattoo on my rib cage (mind you I got this when I was 18). The tattoo is basically a pin up doll holding a glass of whiskey, and what he believed was a joint (it’s a cigar). He said he believes I have an affiliation with drug paraphernalia and deferred my medical to the FAA for further review. Now, keep in mind, IVE NEVER BEEN ARRESTED, I DO NOT do drugs, and I drink socially. I have never failed a alcohol or drug test. It’s simply because of a tattoo on my rib cage. I was baffled and thought he was joking when he deferred my application. He said there’s a chance the FAA will ask for a evaluation by a alcohol/drug addiction specialist.

What the heck do I do? Get a lawyer?
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Contact your regional flight surgeon. If that doesn't work, there's this.
 
If Paul Harvey were still with us then we might get "the rest of the story" ... :dunno:
 
I'm admittedly one of the more vocal, "just stop drinking" guys when we see alcohol issues.

I share everyone's disgust. If there's no clinical or legal evidence of a FAR or DSM alcohol issue then it's an overreach and abuse of delegated authority.

Now we'll wait to see if you get a letter requesting your tattoo's statement about her past, current, and future use of alcohol.

Regardless of the outcome I'd follow Brad's advice. This is not someone who should be trusted with the authority to make these types of decisions.
 
ThatOtherGuy said:
I'm admittedly one of the more vocal, "just stop drinking" guys when we see alcohol issues.

I share everyone's disgust. If there's no clinical or legal evidence of a FAR or DSM alcohol issue then it's an overreach and abuse of delegated authority.

Now we'll wait to see if you get a letter requesting your tattoo's statement about her past, current, and future use of alcohol.

Regardless of the outcome I'd follow Brad's advice. This is not someone who should be trusted with the authority to make these types of decisions.
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I have literally never had a drinking episode in my life. Occasionally I’ll have 1-2 glasses of wine at dinner, at home. I do not go out to the bars or consume alcohol in public. It was a dumb tattoo I had inked while in the navy.
 
asicer said:
Head to a tattoo shop and ask them to change the cigar/joint into a paintbrush and the whiskey into apple juice.
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Or find a good lawyer, own the AMEs house and profit?
 
Yep, crazy if as advertised. Back in the day, I’d go to any AME. Now I only go to the ones that are ‘vetted’. I’d be giving some heads up reviews.
 
I know it’s American as apple pie to have the impulse to call Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe anytime our feelings get hurt, but that is unlikely to do any good in this situation (and in most situations actually.)

Nothing is going to come of this. My more senior AME colleagues here might correct me, but I’m unaware of any case of a medical denied over a tattoo.

Unfortunately the die has been cast and you’re now in deferral Hell for 4-6 months. You might get correspondence from the FAA and if so then just jump through whatever hoops they send you.
 
It’s not the tattoo, but the quack asking questions about why he got it and those circumstances, and who gets to up his clinic’s attendance by one...

And let’s not forget the ordering of an evaluation based on a tattoo. Wow.

“Folks, this is the captain, all 300 of ya aren’t gonna make your Christmas plans, the winds at our destination are 3 gusting to 5, with the historical probability of .00000001 percent chance that forcast is wrong enough that it might actually be unsafe. Maybe next year...”

What would ya think of a pilot THAT risk adverse?
 
NightSkyReader said:
I know it’s American as apple pie to have the impulse to call Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe anytime our feelings get hurt, but that is unlikely to do any good in this situation (and in most situations actually.)

Nothing is going to come of this. My more senior AME colleagues here might correct me, but I’m unaware of any case of a medical denied over a tattoo.

Unfortunately the die has been cast and you’re now in deferral Hell for 4-6 months. You might get correspondence from the FAA and if so then just jump through whatever hoops they send you.
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So your telling me I have to wait around 4-5 months, unpaid, all because of a fning tattoo? Don’t you see the problem with this? How am I supposed to pay my bills?
 
NightSkyReader said:
I know it’s American as apple pie to have the impulse to call Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe anytime our feelings get hurt, but that is unlikely to do any good in this situation (and in most situations actually.)

Nothing is going to come of this. My more senior AME colleagues here might correct me, but I’m unaware of any case of a medical denied over a tattoo.

Unfortunately the die has been cast and you’re now in deferral Hell for 4-6 months. You might get correspondence from the FAA and if so then just jump through whatever hoops they send you.
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so what is the remedy to the pilot when an AME goes way off the procedures and impacts the pilot’s ability to earn income? The guy is clearly out of bounds here and has caused harm. That would seem to imply compensation is due.

your advice sounds a awful lot like “when rape is inevitable, try to enjoy it”
 
bflynn said:
so what is the remedy to the pilot when an AME goes way off the procedures and impacts the pilot’s ability to earn income? The guy is clearly out of bounds here and has caused harm. That would seem to imply compensation is due.

your advice sounds a awful lot like “when rape is inevitable, try to enjoy it”
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Yep. Might not be able to do anything about the FAA but you can sue the AME after it’s all said and done. Document the harm, there has to be harm, (like you couldn’t earn your living for x amount of time, and you had to shell out $$ for testing, etc.) and you have to demonstrate what he did that was egregious. Get copies of his records of the exam. Hopefully he wrote down something about the tattoo being the reason for the deferral and didn’t make up something else like you admitted to being an addict. Although if he did you can add defamation to the suit. I am not a lawyer, but I listen to Steve Lehto a lot. :) Expect to shell out thousands to the lawyer you might never get back but if you win it could be worth it and in any case this AME deserves the expense of defending himself. I don’t usually support “frivolous” lawsuits but if your story is exactly as you present it, this guy needs to be held accountable.

I agree with NighSkyReader you’d probably get nowhere trying to fight the FAA. If you’re lucky maybe they’ll do nothing more than ask for a personal statement explaining the tattoo?

Unfortunately many people can’t afford to sue. :(
 
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bflynn said:
so what is the remedy to the pilot when an AME goes way off the procedures and impacts the pilot’s ability to earn income? The guy is clearly out of bounds here and has caused harm. That would seem to imply compensation is due.

your advice sounds a awful lot like “when rape is inevitable, try to enjoy it”
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There isn’t one for the most part. This is why I lobby very hard for reform in the bureaucracy. One guy can bankrupt you and there’s not much real opportunity to get made whole. In the short term it’s just bend over and enjoy the ****ing.
 
Aviator1245 said:
So your telling me I have to wait around 4-5 months, unpaid, all because of a fning tattoo? Don’t you see the problem with this? How am I supposed to pay my bills?
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Of course I see the problem with it, but you asked what should you do? And my advice is to await requests from the FAA and send them whatever they ask for.

If I came across as justifying your AME’s decision or failing to sympathize with your problem then I apologize. Your medical was deferred for a ridiculous reason. However, legal action is unlikely to do anything other than exacerbate your frustration and make your attorney a lot of money. I also think a formal letter to the FAA is unlikely to go anywhere but it wouldn’t waste much of your time and money to try that.

I think the best thing you could do is to help other pilots avoid the guy. Post something on his google reviews, or Yelp (if that’s even a thing.) Tell other pilots you know in your area about your experience.

Also, post a picture here of that tattoo. I really want to see it lol. Just kidding.
 
I agree... as wrong as it is, a bell has been rung that’s exceedingly difficult to unring.

I do have some experience and advice for how to manage this situation, and still recommend you create an account and contact me via private message. I’ll forward my phone number and will let ya know what I know. I don’t post much of it due to general unreasonability... read other similar posts and you’ll see what I mean.
 
I would request my FAA Blue Ribbon Medical record and get the facts as to what the AME actually said B4 crucifying him. Facts, matter, here. Do not be one of those guys who crucifies first......
 
If only there were something like a union for 121 pilots.
 
bbchien said:
I would request my FAA Blue Ribbon Medical record and get the facts as to what the AME actually said B4 crucifying him. Facts, matter, here. Do not be one of those guys who crucifies first......
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Having a medical deferred due to a tattoo decision of an 18 year old in the navy is plenty of evidence to crucify the doctor.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
If only there were something like a union for 121 pilots.
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The medical services provided by unions vary greatly between shops. Sometimes it’s also dependent on what one pays for above a basic membership. Same is true for loss of medical. Depending on what our OP elected to buy they may be ok for the time required to pull this doc out of their ass or they might go bankrupt.

-Tarheelpilot
Three times a teamster and once ALPA. Eyes wide open…
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Having a medical deferred due to a tattoo decision of an 18 year old in the navy is plenty of evidence to crucify the doctor.
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Continuing the metaphor, it might be enough evidence for an indictment, but a conviction requires hearing from both sides.
 
Palmpilot said:
Continuing the metaphor, it might be enough evidence for an indictment, but a conviction requires hearing from both sides.
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There is no such thing as a conviction here my friend. That’s part of the problem. It’s an environment of summary judgment and it’s a one way street.

remember the FAA hold the keys to the kingdom and it’s their administrative discretion.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
There is no such thing as a conviction here my friend. That’s part of the problem. It’s an environment of summary judgment and it’s a one way street.

remember the FAA hold the keys to the kingdom and it’s their administrative discretion.
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Unless I'm misreading, I think he was talking about the AME. We who are "crucifying" the doctor are assuming the OP's story as told is completely true. We haven't heard the doctor's side.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
There is no such thing as a conviction here my friend. That’s part of the problem. It’s an environment of summary judgment and it’s a one way street.

remember the FAA hold the keys to the kingdom and it’s their administrative discretion.
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I was referring to the crucifixion metaphor my friend. It's a form of capital punishment, which usually requires allowing the defendant to present exculpatory evidence. I agree that due process is in short supply when dealing with the FAA, but the same is true of the court of public opinion.
 
Palmpilot said:
I was referring to the crucifixion metaphor my friend. It's a form of capital punishment, which usually requires allowing the defendant to present exculpatory evidence. I agree that due process is in short supply when dealing with the FAA, but the same is true of the court of public opinion.
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While I agree two wrongs don’t make a right I will also point out this has been an ever growing problem that is not limited to the FAA and acknowledge my own bias.

and furthermore this doctor is a designee of the FAA. So he is the FAA.
 
I only have a second class, but no AME has ever done the hernia check. Is that normal for a first class?
 
bbchien said:
I would request my FAA Blue Ribbon Medical record and get the facts as to what the AME actually said B4 crucifying him. Facts, matter, here. Do not be one of those guys who crucifies first......
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Isn’t that exactly what the “doctor” did to him?
 
I’m guessing this AME has a buddy in the area that is a HIMS AME. HIMS AMES greatly benefit from airmen going into the program. It’s a racket.
 
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