Post solo stuff...

WannFly

WannFly

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ok so asking for some opinions here (yah I asked for it).

I am done with 2 solo now, the 2rd one was scheduled, but I wasn't at my best and decided to do dual. coming Friday, weather permitting, the plan is to go to the practice area solo. now here is the problem... I was under the impression that I will get a endorsement with limitations and fly whenever the heck I want. apparently that's not what my CFI prescribes to. he would like to review the ATIS with me (or at least via text) before I can hop in the plane and take off. that puts a damper in my plan, and I don't want to wake him up at 5 AM because its calm outside....

lets not make this a CFI bashing thread, that's not the point here. He is a great CFI and I am sticking with him and respect his decision. as a new pilot I don't mind if a CFI reviews my plan before I take off.

my plan was to go up whenever I can and practice the maneuvers until it becomes second in nature (I already did them with the CFI, but doing them with the CFI and doing it alone knowing there is no backup are 2 diff things) or just go up and sit at 5k and enjoy life, which might still happen, just not as much I hoped. I understand I need 5 hrs or so solo time for the check ride, but I don't think 5 hrs is enough confidence builder for taking up near and dear ones... so my plan was to do as much solo as I can before the check ride, guess that's not happening and most of my solo times will be after the check ride. I do plan to do more than required number / amount of XC, so there is that. I guess what I am asking is.... for people out there who are / were in similar shoes a mine.. how did you build up confidence before you took up passengers? and where is the line between becoming a good pilot and just passing the check ride and meet minimum standards?
 
When I was training I would talk to my instructor the night before, look at the forecasts and go over them with him. He would tell me what to look for as far as fog or whatever weather wise. I would go fly and call him when I landed.
 
Whose plane is it by the way? His?

Building up confidence before taking pax...
The first few times it is a little daunting but your goal is to shut that voice up, don't get distracted by the passengers and focus on flying.
Use the isolate switch if they jabber a lot or tell them to be quiet you have to focus.

There is no line between being a good pilot and passing standards.
"bad pilots" are pilots that have bad habits and bring them into the cockpit. Sure you can get rusty and can always get a CFI or pilot buddy to help knock the rust off but if you are generally a macho, anti authority, lazy, person who takes shortcuts in your day to day life, you are probably going to be a "bad pilot". The hazardous attitudes thing seems sort of silly and over done in training but the handful of people I have said "I'm never flying with that person again" have fallen into one of those categories.

Focus on being safe, learn from other pilots, learn from your and their mistakes and fly like a loved one is with you even when you are solo.
 
My CFI required a review and endorsement flight by flight. Another CFI's endorsement was good enough if he couldn't make it out (he was happy to).

As for confidence, well, I promised myself I'm not taking anyone up until I'm comfortable. I took my son up on my 2nd flight post PPL. I had about 50 hrs in that plane (152). I have not taken anyone up in my new plane yet cuz I'm not comfortable enough yet with my skills and the plane's known and unknown quirks (8 hrs, 182). Glad I did, I had an ASI problem rear its head recently. Once the plane and I are "one", then I add passengers. We are not there yet. I'm more conservative than some. Everyone is different.
 
I've always had my students text me about weather before they went up for the solo.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Whose plane is it by the way? His?

Building up confidence before taking pax...
The first few times it is a little daunting but your goal is to shut that voice up, don't get distracted by the passengers and focus on flying.
Use the isolate switch if they jabber a lot or tell them to be quiet you have to focus.

There is no line between being a good pilot and passing standards.
"bad pilots" are pilots that have bad habits and bring them into the cockpit. Sure you can get rusty and can always get a CFI or pilot buddy to help knock the rust off but if you are generally a macho, anti authority, lazy, person who takes shortcuts in your day to day life, you are probably going to be a "bad pilot". The hazardous attitudes thing seems sort of silly and over done in training but the handful of people I have said "I'm never flying with that person again" have fallen into one of those categories.

Focus on being safe, learn from other pilots, learn from your and their mistakes and fly like a loved one is with you even when you are solo.
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Thanks for the reply. Now that I am not 17, I don't feel that invincible anymore and have a very healthy respect for everything in aviation.

It's my plane

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I had a couple CFI's and neither would have signed off on a second solo without at least a phone call. Weather in Florida gets pretty bad at times and is hard to predict though....
 
Salty said:
I had a couple CFI's and neither would have signed off on a second solo without at least a phone call. Weather in Florida gets pretty bad at times and is hard to predict though....
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Not talking about 2nd solo... but talking about all solo after the first.

However, u bring a very valid point, winds change pretty often out here, it's not uncommon to see a calm morning followed by 16G20 by lunch

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Another data point: My CFI was direct and to the point...I required his verbal approval on the day of and prior to any solo flights after that very first one. He didn't care how early I called. And a text message did not count. Now twice there was no wind, I had left him a messsage, prepd the plane....no call back, sky got dark put away plane...Sinistar sad :(

He Flys all day and his phone goes dead. He felt mega crappy about it. Also respected the fact I didn't go rogue on him. He later amended the solo endorsement with crosswind restrictions and no call require. I agreed to always check the automated wx and call the briefer for a local wx, NOTAMS and TFRs.

Trust me, give it a few flights the way he wants. As you get more comfortable and he hears how you're doing he'll probably revise your endorsement. Patience. And do not hesitate to text him at 5am. And text him right afterwards so he knows your alive and of all the challenges you triumphantly handled :)
 
It takes a bit to build confidence for the CFI too. Show good judgement and good flight skills. In time you might get the general sign off for specific local airports with perhaps some wind limits. I think I got it after my first solo cross country.
 
He's looking out for you. There will come periods in your life where you won't have anyone doing that, and you'll wish you did. ;)
Don't discount it while ya got it.
 
Sinistar said:
Another data point: My CFI was direct and to the point...I required his verbal approval on the day of and prior to any solo flights after that very first one. He didn't care how early I called. And a text message did not count. Now twice there was no wind, I had left him a messsage, prepd the plane....no call back, sky got dark put away plane...Sinistar sad :(

He Flys all day and his phone goes dead. He felt mega crappy about it. Also respected the fact I didn't go rogue on him. He later amended the solo endorsement with crosswind restrictions and no call require. I agreed to always check the automated wx and call the briefer for a local wx, NOTAMS and TFRs.

Trust me, give it a few flights the way he wants. As you get more comfortable and he hears how you're doing he'll probably revise your endorsement. Patience. And do not hesitate to text him at 5am. And text him right afterwards so he knows your alive and of all the challenges you triumphantly handled :)
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And here I was thinking.... look at sinister... That dude goes up whenever he wants. Thanks for sharing your side of the story. I am in no hurry, actually I am, every time there is sunshine, I wish I am up there... and the fact that my TSA crap runs out in 2 months, so trying to speed up the training...

Good to know, ur CFI is the same way, yah I will text him and get his blessing. I am not going to be that guy who thinks everything is hunky dory and go rogue and find myself in a soup. It actually makes a lot of sense.... my arse is kind of his responsibility

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GRG55 said:
He's looking out for you. There will come periods in your life where you won't have anyone doing that, and you'll wish you did. ;)
Don't discount it while ya got it.
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My dad said that once since I was getting irritated with the sheer number of questions he always have for me. That was 3 yrs back, and till date I haven't forgotten it and dread that day when I won't get a chance to get irritated by his questions.

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Checked logbook and student pilot cert. Got signed off for many local airports after first solo cross county and all night requirements finished. Got a more general sign off after second solo cross country, basically almost ready for checkride then.
 
Thanks all, puts me at ease. This thing is such an addiction... man am gonna go broke soon

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Where I learned, CFI signed off for solo in type aircraft and I had to do my solo flights while a CFI was at the airport. After 5 hours of solo time, the owners let the students come and go anytime. It was a nice, relaxed atmosphere. Main reason I've stayed with them.
 
Each to his own. Your CFI wants to be more involved in your flight planning at this stage, even for pattern work. That's okay. Do well and he will certainly give you a longer leash before you know it. And remember, the student pilot solo requirements are to get you ready for the check ride. The hour requirement is a minimum but that's no reason to go flying just for kicks. Yeah it's fun to be able to do that but it's not your primary goal. Ask your CFI what you need the most work on and work on that.
 
WannFly said:
ok so asking for some opinions here (yah I asked for it).

I am done with 2 solo now, the 2rd one was scheduled, but I wasn't at my best and decided to do dual. coming Friday, weather permitting, the plan is to go to the practice area solo. now here is the problem... I was under the impression that I will get a endorsement with limitations and fly whenever the heck I want. apparently that's not what my CFI prescribes to. he would like to review the ATIS with me (or at least via text) before I can hop in the plane and take off. that puts a damper in my plan, and I don't want to wake him up at 5 AM because its calm outside....

lets not make this a CFI bashing thread, that's not the point here. He is a great CFI and I am sticking with him and respect his decision. as a new pilot I don't mind if a CFI reviews my plan before I take off.

my plan was to go up whenever I can and practice the maneuvers until it becomes second in nature (I already did them with the CFI, but doing them with the CFI and doing it alone knowing there is no backup are 2 diff things) or just go up and sit at 5k and enjoy life, which might still happen, just not as much I hoped. I understand I need 5 hrs or so solo time for the check ride, but I don't think 5 hrs is enough confidence builder for taking up near and dear ones... so my plan was to do as much solo as I can before the check ride, guess that's not happening and most of my solo times will be after the check ride. I do plan to do more than required number / amount of XC, so there is that. I guess what I am asking is.... for people out there who are / were in similar shoes a mine.. how did you build up confidence before you took up passengers? and where is the line between becoming a good pilot and just passing the check ride and meet minimum standards?
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My CFI just gave me a weather minimums and distance radius solo endorsement.
 
More like exnsurfer... I think after solo my logbook showed an endorsement for multiple solo flights with some wind and weather limitations and I could go out to the practice area with just a phone call. Then multiple trips to a nearby airport.

BUT! schedule it and ask him what time he wants to clear it. You're paying him!
 
Something else to consider, he is also looking for you to build the skills to have good judgement. If you plan a solo flight and the weather is outside what you should fly in, call him and cancel rather than him having to call you. Tell him why you thinks it's better to not fly. He should appreciate you being aware and taking initiative. I did that a couple of times, my instructor never questioned me at the time because he always reinforced that I was the pilot in command (yes, he was, but was teaching me to be assertive) however, sometime later he would counsel me about the decision. I remember once he told me that a flight I had cancelled the weather was fine and he was surprised that I didn't go, but then encouraged me to always listen to that voice telling you something isn't quite right.
 
WannFly said:
And here I was thinking.... look at sinister... That dude goes up whenever he wants. Thanks for sharing your side of the story
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. Then my bad, I should have been more clear about each flight being done under the guise of a fairly strict endorsement. Basically I am limited to our practice area (within 25nm and on the west side of the Twin Cities Bravo). The other part of my endorsement is related to crosswinds. I do not have my log book right here a work but it goes something like Winds < 12kts and no more than 30deg or winds < 10kts and no more than 20 degrees. We have had incredibly calm wx this past 3 weeks so I have cashed in on that whenever I can. Even the CFI said he's never had a student wrap up 3 solo cross countries in 5 or 6 calendar days. Now that it is getting dark sooner and I tend to fly after work (and I work late) we nave now discussed my limit regarding sunset. I am clear to fly until civil twilight..I thought he would have been a bit more strict. So my goal is to start 45min before sunset and then fly to maybe just 15min after sunset vs civil twilight. Our last two flights have ended being kinda dark so I think that's why he's letting me nudge closer to dark.

WannFly said:
... and the fact that my TSA crap runs out in 2 months, so trying to speed up the training...
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There is a lot to this part of your post. We are renting a temporary hangar and really want to stop that $$$ bleed. He may give me an endorsement to go out to our permanent hangar now but it think it useless until my night work is done and i'm a bit better at cross wind landings. In the end it is better (and cheaper) to pay another month for a second hangar than to try and save $240 but spend that much on fuel, etc. So my advice to you given you are under a TSA restriction might be to find a temporary hangar where there are more runway options and this might speed things along. You can always leave your hangar empty for a month or two. Then you won't have this "one thing" driving you to rush or speed things up...which is never good in flying,
 
Sinistar said:
. Then my bad, I should have been more clear about each flight being done under the guise of a fairly strict endorsement. Basically I am limited to our practice area (within 25nm and on the west side of the Twin Cities Bravo). The other part of my endorsement is related to crosswinds. I do not have my log book right here a work but it goes something like Winds < 12kts and no more than 30deg or winds < 10kts and no more than 20 degrees. We have had incredibly calm wx this past 3 weeks so I have cashed in on that whenever I can. Even the CFI said he's never had a student wrap up 3 solo cross countries in 5 or 6 calendar days. Now that it is getting dark sooner and I tend to fly after work (and I work late) we nave now discussed my limit regarding sunset. I am clear to fly until civil twilight..I thought he would have been a bit more strict. So my goal is to start 45min before sunset and then fly to maybe just 15min after sunset vs civil twilight. Our last two flights have ended being kinda dark so I think that's why he's letting me nudge closer to dark.

There is a lot to this part of your post. We are renting a temporary hangar and really want to stop that $$$ bleed. He may give me an endorsement to go out to our permanent hangar now but it think it useless until my night work is done and i'm a bit better at cross wind landings. In the end it is better (and cheaper) to pay another month for a second hangar than to try and save $240 but spend that much on fuel, etc. So my advice to you given you are under a TSA restriction might be to find a temporary hangar where there are more runway options and this might speed things along. You can always leave your hangar empty for a month or two. Then you won't have this "one thing" driving you to rush or speed things up...which is never good in flying,
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you are way ahead of me in Xwind landings, my landings in Xwind is what my CFI calls passable, but in all honesty they are crap. the 25 NM is a FAA thing. yeah we had a few weeks of unusual calm days too, but think that's over and back to 12G18 whenever it feels like :(
about the hangar, I took an executive decision and moved back KFAR (with 6 runways). it sucks to pay more for hangar and fuel, but as a student, I have a lot more option when wx goes south. I also plan to start IR not too long after the PPL and want to do most of it in real IMC. staying at KFAR helps a lot in that regard as well. I will still go and solo at D54 soon and get used to 3300 ft long and 50 ft wide rny since that's where my mx guy is and cheap fuel :p
 
Another option is to find a PPL that is willing to fly with you in your plane and get experience that way. If I lived close I would do it. You can't log the time, but you can get practice. Insurance might be an issue, and I might think twice about having you land using my PPL. Maybe it's not such a great idea. lol
 
Salty said:
Another option is to find a PPL that is willing to fly with you in your plane and get experience that way. If I lived close I would do it. You can't log the time, but you can get practice. Insurance might be an issue, and I might think twice about having you land using my PPL. Maybe it's not such a great idea. lol
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lol... having a CFI might be "cheaper" in the long run. my primary instructor is pretty busy, I did however arrange for another one when my primary is not available. he is new to the school (not a new CFI) and has his schedule wide open and have 2500 hrs just in Archer. plan is to get VOR and GPS navigation out of the way next week and then start working on xc
 
That sounds like a great plan! Get at it.
And we wanna hear from you how you are doing too. :thumbsup:
 
You just need to do this every morning:

If the winds are within your solo comfort zone, call the instructor and ask if you can go flying.

If they are beyond your comfort zone, call the instructor and ask him to go flying with you.

If they are beyond your instructor's comfort zone, go wash your airplane and check the winds when you finish.
 
I went through a 141 school and they required a CFI to go over the weather and flight plan before every solo flight. Now, this didn't HAVE to be my instructor (for one solo XC another of the schools instructor did that for him with prior coordination). I never got any blanket endorsements to go do my thing- I had to always see an instructor in person at the airport before going. Those were the rules the 141 school used but it was never an issue since it was a decent sized school.

As for the confidence, I have a feeling that if you are confident enough to take your checkride then you will be confident enough to take up a passenger after your checkride. With that being said, do not go crazy with your first passenger! Stay in the local area that you are familiar with, keep the flight short (especially if this is their first ride in a small plane), and pick a calm/clear day. You will be adding a huge distraction that you have never had to deal with before, so eliminate as many other distractions as possible such as the weather or airspace. Your comfort zone will quickly grow, just do not rush it.
 
AU_James said:
I went through a 141 school and they required a CFI to go over the weather and flight plan before every solo flight. Now, this didn't HAVE to be my instructor (for one solo XC another of the schools instructor did that for him with prior coordination). I never got any blanket endorsements to go do my thing- I had to always see an instructor in person at the airport before going. Those were the rules the 141 school used but it was never an issue since it was a decent sized school.

As for the confidence, I have a feeling that if you are confident enough to take your checkride then you will be confident enough to take up a passenger after your checkride. With that being said, do not go crazy with your first passenger! Stay in the local area that you are familiar with, keep the flight short (especially if this is their first ride in a small plane), and pick a calm/clear day. You will be adding a huge distraction that you have never had to deal with before, so eliminate as many other distractions as possible such as the weather or airspace. Your comfort zone will quickly grow, just do not rush it.
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Thanks for sharing. I sometime had this in my mind that once I solo, I can go up anytime when the winds are right. Now that I think about and hearing from all of you, looks like I had some wrong expectations. I am also getting too excited everyday when I see a calm morning or evening and want to go up every time.... but yah rushing into it is never a good idea. I will try to take my mind... and take it as it comes. Just the thought of taking a passenger and another person's life in my hands is kinda overwhelming rt now. But that's few months down the road... so guess I better focus on VOR nav

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WannFly said:
Thanks for sharing. I sometime had this in my mind that once I solo, I can go up anytime when the winds are right. Now that I think about and hearing from all of you, looks like I had some wrong expectations. I am also getting too excited everyday when I see a calm morning or evening and want to go up every time.... but yah rushing into it is never a good idea. I will try to take my mind... and take it as it comes. Just the thought of taking a passenger and another person's life in my hands is kinda overwhelming rt now. But that's few months down the road... so guess I better focus on VOR nav

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I had the same expectations, and also felt it was a bit of a let down. Although my instructor was fine with a phone call - he lived 5 miles from the airport so he could see the weather in person from home.

I'll fess up and say my third solo was one I should not have left the pattern. There were low wispy clouds in the neighborhood and I made it to the practice area, but by the time I got there there was no clear path back to the airport without dodging clouds. It was all legal, but all I did was find my way back to the airport between the clouds, I didn't do anything I'd planned on. Not that it wasn't a good learning experience, it was too much for third solo and I probably only had 20 hours at that point. In my original call to ground I asked for pattern work, and I amended that at the runway when I talked to the tower, but that was bad judgement. I should have just done some touch and goes and stayed close.
 
Well had high hopes of going to the practice area solo today, 8g15 and some convective stuff put a damper in it. Instead did some xw work, followed by short field landings and a bunch of power off 180... man those are a lot of fun and archer loves to glide

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WannFly said:
man those are a lot of fun and archer loves to glide
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Kate the butterfly...

Take everything as slow as it takes. You got a hella-nice plane, and are fortunate enough to fly it at your leisure. Don't have to rush this journey, just ensure that you enjoy it.
 
First youre flying on his ticket so..

Ive never put any limitations on my students except to call and brief me before their flights, seemed to work well for everyone.
 
He (and most of the CFI's here) probably have had/seen or heard of some horror story. In my area, a month before I was to solo, weather was typical west Texas clear and a million. Student takes off and a freak fog develops over the area (we never get fog) after he was airborne. ATC was trying to reach the student, instructor was calling everywhere ... student saw it from the air and picked a nearby VFR field and landed. None of the students in my group were allowed airborne without the CFI reviewing each flight's weather condition at time of flight (flight school's new rule) after that event. This was in 2006.
 
My CFI did not impose this restriction, but I would not have minded if he did.

I recall near the end of my training I went on a solo XC and ran into degrading weather conditions. I knew it was sketchy when I took off but also knew that it was all clear and would remain clear over the area of departure. My intended destination was just on the other side of come class D airspace, and because the ceiling was lower than forecasted, I had to get on tower frequency to get through the class D as opposed to flying over it. I should have turned around at that point, but didn't. Before contacting tower, I tuned into the AWOS for my destination and remember hearing something like broken 3500 feet. It seemed ok. Well by the time I cleared the class D and tuned back to the AWOS I was already heading into mist and then heard overcast at 700 feet. I had to do the 180 turn in less than VFR conditions (maybe not IMC - as I could always see the ground, but probably not VFR either...). It alarmed me enough that when I contacted the tower to go back through the class D, I requested to land. I figured it was my best bet because I could clearly see the ground and runways but not too much in front of me. I had lost confidence that the weather was clear where I came from. The controller started issuing instructions and asked if I was in trouble due to weather. By the time I responded, I had broken out of the mist and had near unlimited visibility again. I let him know what was going on and requested to continue my current heading through the class D so I could go back to my home airport. The rest of the flight was uneventful.

On one hand, it was a valuable lesson about weather and it was a confidence builder on how I can react to degrading weather. I also learned how to monitor the second radio in his 172 after that...

On the other hand, I just needed to make that landing to check the box and move on to prepping for the check ride. So while I would not call that flight a waste of money, I certainly did not accomplish my goal. Had I talked to my CFI, he may have advised me to go in a different direction, cancel all together - or who knows, he may have cleared me for my original plan!

The point is, I think it is ok for a CFI to impose that restriction for a number of reasons!
 
You mean this???

soloproducts.jpg
 
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