POA

[luvflyin]

Not us. Power of Attorney. It's real, I've changed names and places though. Looks like anyone can use it and execute documents by just saying Dick and Harry are unable to act. Don't gotta document or prove they are unable. Just say it. I've highlighted the key phrase. Anyone ever seen anything like this before?

I, Tom, of Bumphuq, Egypt, appoint my son, Dick, as my attorney-in-fact ("my Agent). If my son Dick is unable or unwilling to act as my Agent, I appoint my son, Harry, as my Agent. An alternate agent may act during any period when my Agent is temporarily unable to act. If an alternate agent represents that my Agent is temporarily unable to act, any third party may conclusively rely on such representation without further inquiry. The term "my Agent" in this power of attorney shall include any alternate agent who is authorized to act under this paragraph.

 

[Bob Noel]

the powers granted by a POA kind of makes it important that you trust the named agent(s).

 

[luvflyin]

the powers granted by a POA kind of makes it important that you trust the named agent(s).

The issue isn't the named Agents. It's some unknown person who can "...An alternate agent may act during any period when my Agent is temporarily unable to act. If an alternate agent represents that my Agent is temporarily unable to act, any third party may conclusively rely on such representation without further inquiry..."

 

[guest user]

I think part of the problem is that you're not specifying son Harry as your "alternate agent". If you had said "alternate agent" it would make more sense and be less likely to be misunderstood / misused.

On the other hand "The term "my Agent" in this power of attorney shall include any alternate agent who is authorized to act under this paragraph." does makes it seem like you have to specify the alternate or else it isn't a valid alternate agent.

But, you can probably tell that I am not a lawyer.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Tom or Harry.

Don't be a Dick.

 

[wanttaja]

Not us. Power of Attorney. It's real, I've changed names and places though. Looks like anyone can use it and execute documents by just saying Dick and Harry are unable to act. Don't gotta document or prove they are unable. Just say it. I've highlighted the key phrase. Anyone ever seen anything like this before?

I, Tom, of Bumphuq, Egypt, appoint my son, Dick, as my attorney-in-fact ("my Agent). If my son Dick is unable or unwilling to act as my Agent, I appoint my son, Harry, as my Agent. An alternate agent may act during any period when my Agent is temporarily unable to act. If an alternate agent represents that my Agent is temporarily unable to act, any third party may conclusively rely on such representation without further inquiry. The term "my Agent" in this power of attorney shall include any alternate agent who is authorized to act under this paragraph.

My wife had Power of Attorney for her (now late) aunt. Said aunt was living alone in the house she'd been in for sixty years, unable to manage her medications, losing her memory (she'd call eight times a day with the same question), house riddled with garbage and insects, blood all over the bathroom from a cut she'd tried to bandage. Was in severe pain, wife and her sister finally convinced her to let them call for an ambulance (note this was from 3,000 miles away). Died three weeks later in rehab, but the doctor had approved sending her home to live by herself again. Her mental state was obvious to anyone who spoke to her for more than a few minutes (kept asking the same questions, forgot who the person was, etc.) but the medical staff didn't engage with her long enough. They would not state that the aunt was mentally incompetent, and thus would not accept my wife's authority to make decisions for her. So in that state, at least (Maryland) my wife' couldn't claim she was incompetent and send her to assisted living.

It was weird in other ways, too. Some vendors accepted my wife's POA without question...probably because she was paying the aunt's bills. The bank, however, when they received a copy of my wife's POA, declared that it "looked suspicious" without explaining *why* it was suspicious.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Zeldman]

The bank, however, when they received a copy of my wife's POA, declared that it "looked suspicious" without explaining *why* it was suspicious.

When I did a PoA for my mom, the bank would not take it, even with it being witnessed and signed by a notary public. The bank wanted both her and me in the bank to use their notary to sign it. Being 886 miles away that was not possible. However, she added my name to the account that that was perfectly fine.

 

[robin ardoin]

Keep in mind that power of attorney validity ceases with death. Any orders for handling of finances/estate/funeral wishes must be conveyed in a living will or else it can cause unnecessary grief amongst heirs/ unnecessary probate. My wife is a funeral director/embalmer and deals with the conflict between heirs on a daily basis. She sees the claws come out with the most unassuming families after a death.

 

[wanttaja]

When I did a PoA for my mom, the bank would not take it, even with it being witnessed and signed by a notary public. The bank wanted both her and me in the bank to use their notary to sign it. Being 886 miles away that was not possible. However, she added my name to the account that that was perfectly fine.

That sounds like a reasonable response by the bank. Would have accepted this explanation in my aunt's case. But they just made a reference to "looking suspicious" without any reference to wanting it done in person.

And yes, my wife's life is MUCH easier since her aunt's passing. She knew the POA terminated at that point. She's helping the executor handle the estate, but just to help take the load off her.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[judypilot]

My wife had Power of Attorney for her (now late) aunt. Said aunt was living alone in the house she'd been in for sixty years, unable to manage her medications, losing her memory (she'd call eight times a day with the same question), house riddled with garbage and insects, blood all over the bathroom from a cut she'd tried to bandage. Was in severe pain, wife and her sister finally convinced her to let them call for an ambulance (note this was from 3,000 miles away). Died three weeks later in rehab, but the doctor had approved sending her home to live by herself again. Her mental state was obvious to anyone who spoke to her for more than a few minutes (kept asking the same questions, forgot who the person was, etc.) but the medical staff didn't engage with her long enough. They would not state that the aunt was mentally incompetent, and thus would not accept my wife's authority to make decisions for her. So in that state, at least (Maryland) my wife' couldn't claim she was incompetent and send her to assisted living.

It was weird in other ways, too. Some vendors accepted my wife's POA without question...probably because she was paying the aunt's bills. The bank, however, when they received a copy of my wife's POA, declared that it "looked suspicious" without explaining *why* it was suspicious.

Ron Wanttaja

This happened to a friend of mine with his sister. The doctors kept sending her back home. She finally fell and injured herself badly, which meant doctors had to engage with her long enough to realize she was incompetent. Would not release her back to home, MUCH to my friend's relief. She's now in assisted living, where she should have been the last three years.

 

[Albany Tom]

Not an attorney. In addition to the above, I believe in some states you can have a limited power of attorney, where you specify what things the POA applies to.

 

[steingar]

Someone has to be compus mentis to appoint a POA. If the person isn't, and someone finds out the POA is in some serious doo doo. If someone is suspected to be mentally incompetent you make them your ward, just like Batman and Robin (having your ward dress up in costume and fight crime, talk about child abuse!). It is a huge PITA and is supervised by a court. But the court will appoint someone to talk to the subject and ascertain their level of competence.