please read! help

Call dr. Bruce. Talk to him. See if you can get copies of your old records.
 
Jeanie said:
Call dr. Bruce. Talk to him. See if you can get copies of your old records.
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The issue is not one of him getting his medical. The issue is to not expose his parents and likely the doctor as frauds while doing it. I don't think it can be done with any level of assurance anymore.

His best bet is to narc out the doctor as the instigator; might be enough reward to pay for his flight training.
 
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Unreg, EVERYthing depends on what is said on the eval. There are no guarantees, but their opinion superceeds that of all before them.
 
thanks Bruce . I'm working on getting my medical records so i can find out whats actually in them and whats not. I still haven't seen my own medical records til this day. so i will keep you posted once i find out
 
Unregistered said:
thanks Bruce . I'm working on getting my medical records so i can find out whats actually in them and whats not. I still haven't seen my own medical records til this day. so i will keep you posted once i find out
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I don't really think your parents factor into it. I would just keep it to that you disagree with any prior diagnosis and want a review. That does not particularly cast your parents in a bad light.
 
But if it comes up during the medical screenings, and they ask you, 'why did your parents suspect you of these disorders?', DO. NOT. LIE.

Tell the truth as you best understand and believe it.

IF that means your parents suffer, well, that's too bad, but your parents brought that suffering on themselves by using deceit to obtain for themselves that to which they had no right, and they did so at YOUR expense.

I recognize that you feel for your parents - but that does not entail upon them the right to sell your future for their profit. DO not sacrifice your dreams for your future for the sake of your virtue as a merciful being - all you will do is enable their continued bad behavior at your further expense.
 
alfadog said:
I don't really think your parents factor into it. I would just keep it to that you disagree with any prior diagnosis and want a review. That does not particularly cast your parents in a bad light.
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Really, collecting Social Security benefits under false pretenses doesn't cast a bad light?
 
Henning said:
Really, collecting Social Security benefits under false pretenses doesn't cast a bad light?
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You and others keep assuming it was "under false pretenses" based solely on the statements of an anonymous person who admits to having a documented history of schizophrenia (whether s/he agrees to the accuracy of that history or not). As Bruce and I keep telling you, the FAA is not going to take the OP at his/her word on that, and will require professional evaluation to prove his/her contention that the history is not accurate before s/he will be able to fly legally in any capacity covered by Part 61, including Sport, glider, and balloon.

This really is a case of "guilty until proven innocent" because there is a presumption that the original record is accurate until the preponderance of the evidence tips the scale the other way, and the burden is on the OP to provide that evidence. Simply claiming without evidence that the original record is inaccurate is not sufficient. Further, the FAA's position is entirely within Constitutional bounds in this matter of administrative (not criminal) law.
 
Ron Levy said:
This really is a case of "guilty until proven innocent" because there is a presumption that the original record is accurate until the preponderance of the evidence tips the scale the other way, and the burden is on the OP to provide that evidence.
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This is the prerogative of the FAA.

It does not have to be ours. If we give him the benefit of the doubt, that won't stop the FAA from doing their due diligence.

The idea that parents would lie/use children for financial gain doesn't surprise me in the slightest - I have heard too many tales of just that to assume guilt on the part of a ~20 year old who's just now (presumably) figuring out what he wants to do in life.
 
Ron Levy said:
You and others keep assuming it was "under false pretenses" based solely on the statements of an anonymous person who admits to having a documented history of schizophrenia (whether s/he agrees to the accuracy of that history or not). As Bruce and I keep telling you, the FAA is not going to take the OP at his/her word on that, and will require professional evaluation to prove his/her contention that the history is not accurate before s/he will be able to fly legally in any capacity covered by Part 61, including Sport, glider, and balloon.

This really is a case of "guilty until proven innocent" because there is a presumption that the original record is accurate until the preponderance of the evidence tips the scale the other way, and the burden is on the OP to provide that evidence. Simply claiming without evidence that the original record is inaccurate is not sufficient. Further, the FAA's position is entirely within Constitutional bounds in this matter of administrative (not criminal) law.
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I didn't eliminate the potentiality of a diagnosis of anything. I said in order for him to get a medical he will have to sign to sworn statements that will either implicate him making false statements on his 8500 or making statements that will implicate his parents in a crime.

Either way, if the situation in the OP is accurate, there will be felonies involved in him getting issued a medical.
 
Henning said:
I said in order for him to get a medical he will have to sign to sworn statements that will either implicate him making false statements on his 8500 or making statements that will implicate his parents in a crime.
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Not necessarily. The original poster could demonstrate no such condition exists today without having to directly challenge the validity of the diagnosis in the past.
 
Unregistered said:
Not necessarily. The original poster could demonstrate no such condition exists today without having to directly challenge the validity of the diagnosis in the past.
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Exactly. Just have the eval done. Misdiagnosis, especially in children, and the consequent over-medication, is not uncommon. Just say you feel you were misdiagnosed. No-one is going to send the FBI after your folks. IMO, of course.
 
Unregistered said:
Not necessarily. The original poster could demonstrate no such condition exists today without having to directly challenge the validity of the diagnosis in the past.
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That's not the way Social Security will see it. They will see fraud.
 
alfadog said:
Exactly. Just have the eval done. Misdiagnosis, especially in children, and the consequent over-medication, is not uncommon. Just say you feel you were misdiagnosed. No-one is going to send the FBI after your folks. IMO, of course.
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Don't you get it? That means his parents RECEIVED (past tense) federal funds under false pretenses, at minimum that puts them liable for repayment if they can show they were mislead by the doctor. If not, then they have some serious problems coming up with SSI. SSI cross references payments made against the FAA database, we know that as a fact because people have already gone to prison in a quite publicized event over this linkage.

If he's afraid of getting his folks in trouble, he better tell his folks to talk to a lawyer first befoe signing that 8500 and starting this process, because once the train pulls out, you can't stop it and according to the OP they are considered criminals by the federal government who will prosecute.
 
Henning said:
Don't you get it? That means his parents RECEIVED (past tense) federal funds under false pretenses, at minimum that puts them liable for repayment if they can show they were mislead by the doctor. If not, then they have some serious problems coming up with SSI. SSI cross references payments made against the FAA database, we know that as a fact because people have already gone to prison in a quite publicized event over this linkage.

If he's afraid of getting his folks in trouble, he better tell his folks to talk to a lawyer first befoe signing that 8500 and starting this process, because once the train pulls out, you can't stop it and according to the OP they are considered criminals by the federal government who will prosecute.
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There is a lot of gaming the system by both physicians and patients. Similar to how lawyers coach guilty clients before they let the client speak. The physician educates the parents on what symptoms constitute a particular diagnosis and guess what? The kid has them. Who can prove the kid did not have these symptoms at that time?
 
Henning said:
Don't you get it? That means his parents RECEIVED (past tense) federal funds under false pretenses, at minimum that puts them liable for repayment if they can show they were mislead by the doctor. If not, then they have some serious problems coming up with SSI. SSI cross references payments made against the FAA database, we know that as a fact because people have already gone to prison in a quite publicized event over this linkage.

If he's afraid of getting his folks in trouble, he better tell his folks to talk to a lawyer first befoe signing that 8500 and starting this process, because once the train pulls out, you can't stop it and according to the OP they are considered criminals by the federal government who will prosecute.
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What false pretenses? SS took whatever evidence the parents gave as being legit. Maybe it was. Misdiagnosis happens all the time. Maybe there was no misdiagnosis. It does not matter. Now he goes and says that he did not agree with the diagnosis then and he does not now and wants it re-evaluated. Does not have to reflect on his parents if he just sticks to that simple concept. "I was a kid, I don't know." End of story. He was a kid; his opinion of the diagnosis did not count. Now he is an adult and can make his own decision and seek his own opinions. Who knows what, if anything, his parents did. That is water under the bridge. All he has to say is that he was a kid, he does not know what their motives were or if there was any wrongdoing and he is not going to speculate. That aspect is, IMO, a non-issue.
 
Gary F said:
There is a lot of gaming the system by both physicians and patients. Similar to how lawyers coach guilty clients before they let the client speak. The physician educates the parents on what symptoms constitute a particular diagnosis and guess what? The kid has them. Who can prove the kid did not have these symptoms at that time?
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If he had them then, he has them now, if he can pass the tests now, fraud was committed then. He's in a bind.
 
Henning said:
If he had them then, he has them now, if he can pass the tests now, fraud was committed then. He's in a bind.
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Henning, you're eliminating the possibility that a diagnosis was simply made in error.
 
Or if the physician is having trouble deciding between several possibilities, give the diagnosis that will make the patient (or family) happy.
 
Gary F said:
Or if the physician is having trouble deciding between several possibilities, give the diagnosis that will make the patient (or family) happy.
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Just listened to a bit on NPR on the assessment for psychopathy in criminals. The results varied widely depending on who was paying for the eval, defense or prosecution. This is not an exact science, and in fact, the argument is made that it is no science at all. No-one is going to go after the parents. He will just have to satisfy the FAA as to his current condition. That might take some doing but when it comes to his parents, "I was a kid, I don't know".
 
Greebo said:
Henning, you're eliminating the possibility that a diagnosis was simply made in error.
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So will Social Security, once they find something to look at they are like the IRS and you are guilty until proven innocent.
 
alfadog said:
Just listened to a bit on NPR on the assessment for psychopathy in criminals. The results varied widely depending on who was paying for the eval, defense or prosecution. This is not an exact science, and in fact, the argument is made that it is no science at all. No-one is going to go after the parents. He will just have to satisfy the FAA as to his current condition. That might take some doing but when it comes to his parents, "I was a kid, I don't know".
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All the rest I agree with except the part in bold, that is no longer a low risk subject. That they will be required to return the money and retain counsel to stay out of criminal trouble is now a very high possibility with database cross checking that SS does with all other agencies now. We know the possibility for trouble exists because there have already been well publicized cases of it happening.

I think you are giving this kid some high risk advice, higher that the risk I would take because the risk transfers to someone else. Granted it's the parents that screwed up, the OP states in the OP that it was a purposeful and premeditated fraud. These are not people who will be able to answer the SS investigators questions correctly.

This family needs the advice of an attorney versed in this before proceeding, they need to have their story straight before they get asked the first question; they are in a bind if he signs that form honestly and he's in a bind if he lies. You make this into much less of an issue than SS, they imprison people who collect fraudulent checks.
 
Henning said:
All the rest I agree with except the part in bold, that is no longer a low risk subject. That they will be required to return the money and retain counsel to stay out of criminal trouble is now a very high possibility with database cross checking that SS does with all other agencies now. We know the possibility for trouble exists because there have already been well publicized cases of it happening.

I think you are giving this kid some high risk advice, higher that the risk I would take because the risk transfers to someone else. Granted it's the parents that screwed up, the OP states in the OP that it was a purposeful and premeditated fraud. These are not people who will be able to answer the SS investigators questions correctly.

This family needs the advice of an attorney versed in this before proceeding, they need to have their story straight before they get asked the first question; they are in a bind if he signs that form honestly and he's in a bind if he lies. You make this into much less of an issue than SS, they imprison people who collect fraudulent checks.
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I am not convinced that SS brearucrats really care about fradulant activity. There is a lot of obvious SS fraud and I haddly ever hear about anybody being convicted.
 
Henning said:
All the rest I agree with except the part in bold, that is no longer a low risk subject. That they will be required to return the money and retain counsel to stay out of criminal trouble is now a very high possibility with database cross checking that SS does with all other agencies now. We know the possibility for trouble exists because there have already been well publicized cases of it happening.

I think you are giving this kid some high risk advice, higher that the risk I would take because the risk transfers to someone else. Granted it's the parents that screwed up, the OP states in the OP that it was a purposeful and premeditated fraud. These are not people who will be able to answer the SS investigators questions correctly.

This family needs the advice of an attorney versed in this before proceeding, they need to have their story straight before they get asked the first question; they are in a bind if he signs that form honestly and he's in a bind if he lies. You make this into much less of an issue than SS, they imprison people who collect fraudulent checks.
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Would only be an issue if they falsified a document that they provided to the gov't. There is not info in this thread if that happened. More likely they had a diagnosis or some evaluation that they provided so it is a non-issue. But if they falsified some document - forged a sig or whatever - then, yes, there is an issue. OP, is that the case?
 
Just a thought - suppose he really does have ADD, anxiety, depression, and schizophrenia? A $4500 HIMS eval will just confirm it. Still, a lot depends on the original medical records. Possibly a good eval or consult with a local psychiatrist first before deciding on how to proceed. First, you gotta know what you are dealing with.
 
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Gary F said:
I am not convinced that SS brearucrats really care about fradulant activity. There is a lot of obvious SS fraud and I haddly ever hear about anybody being convicted.
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Makes the news reasonably often around here, granted it's on page 14, but I see them pretty frequently. Granted it's not as cool as shooting up school, but it's still plenty of trouble.
 
Henning said:
Makes the news reasonably often around here, granted it's on page 14, but I see them pretty frequently. Granted it's not as cool as shooting up school, but it's still plenty of trouble.
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I bet they catch 0.1% of all fraudulent activity.
 
Gary F said:
I bet they catch 0.1% of all fraudulent activity.
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That is because they only discover that much. When you fill out a form to the Federal Government stating there were payments made under false pretenses, THAT is how they get that .1%, it's they way they catch most people at it now when they see different claims at different agencies.
 
I see what everyone is saying here. My mom gave me some records yesterday and back in 2005 i actually was evaluated and they said i had ADD and depression but nothing about schizophrenia. so therefore it wouldnt be fraud if they have records. Just based on ADD and depression i would be eligible to recieve benefits. This whole schizo thing could be in misunderstanding. Now again this evaluation was when i was 13 and being rebelious. I am fully focused and determined in anything i do. Havent been depressed for years. Maybe it was a phase i was going through but i feel i dont have this conditions at all.
 
Unregistered said:
I see what everyone is saying here. My mom gave me some records yesterday and back in 2005 i actually was evaluated and they said i had ADD and depression but nothing about schizophrenia. so therefore it wouldnt be fraud if they have records. Just based on ADD and depression i would be eligible to recieve benefits. This whole schizo thing could be in misunderstanding. Now again this evaluation was when i was 13 and being rebelious. I am fully focused and determined in anything i do. Havent been depressed for years. Maybe it was a phase i was going through but i feel i dont have this conditions at all.
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Then get your evaluation. That schizophrenia isn't in the paperwork is a positive thing because it's not something that's often misdiagnosed, and also not something that would typically manifest until your late teens/early 20s. It's still gonna cost as much to get your medical as your license most likely.
 
Unregistered said:
I see what everyone is saying here. My mom gave me some records yesterday and back in 2005 i actually was evaluated and they said i had ADD and depression but nothing about schizophrenia. so therefore it wouldnt be fraud if they have records. Just based on ADD and depression i would be eligible to recieve benefits. This whole schizo thing could be in misunderstanding. Now again this evaluation was when i was 13 and being rebelious. I am fully focused and determined in anything i do. Havent been depressed for years. Maybe it was a phase i was going through but i feel i dont have this conditions at all.
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Again, see a professional. Get an evaluation. As regards anythng about your parents: "I was 13-year-old kid, I don't know anything about that."
 
OP: Consider working directly with Dr. Bruce Chien (pay his fee) and work the roadmap he devises for you. Dr. Bruce will provide the right (and best!) advice on what items to get, who you need to speak with, what those folks need to create as documentation, and how to package all of this so once it is submitted to the FAA, it all flows smoothly through their system with no problems.

www.aeromedicaldoc.com and look for the contact information in Peoria, IL.
 
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