planes with no GPS questions

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Criitter7

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Brian
Looking to rent from a club where none of the planes have a GPS installed. I know I'll get yelled at from the no we don't need no stinking GPS crowd, but is it a big deal. up Til now all the planes I've flown in had a GPS of some type. I know how to fly without one but having it as a backup makes me warm and fuzzy inside. I have foreflight on my iPad will a stratus ok? All I do is short little vfr trips and such nothing over 200 miles yet
 
Child of the magenta. Where do we find such pilots. Sheesh.
 
KA550 said:
Child of the magenta. Where do we find such pilots. Sheesh.
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Probably wears a digital watch too.
Bet he can't even do his laundry a wash board and clothesline like a real man.

Damn kids with their central air, microwaves and automatic transmission.
 
Criitter7 said:
Looking to rent from a club where none of the planes have a GPS installed. I know I'll get yelled at from the no we don't need no stinking GPS crowd, but is it a big deal. up Til now all the planes I've flown in had a GPS of some type. I know how to fly without one but having it as a backup makes me warm and fuzzy inside. I have foreflight on my iPad will a stratus ok? All I do is short little vfr trips and such nothing over 200 miles yet
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For VFR use any portable GPS is adequate, thing is many suffer heat failures, so if you need one for confidence I would suggest springing the extra dollars for a dedicated unit or have a back up.
 
Like Henning notes, if you intend to fly VFR then bring your cellular iPad. Its got a GPS - try to keep it out of the sun.

I'd be really leery of launching into IFR in any airplane you don't know well and don't understand what works well, what needs to be tapped to work, and the maintenance level and quality of the airplane. YMMV.
 
What is the actual question here? Are you asking us if flying with no GPS is OK? Only you can answer that.
 
For what it's worth I don't have a GPS installed in my plane either. Foreflight on the IPad works as well if not better than a $10,000 panel mount unit for VFR navigation, save for the overheating issues.

I don't "need" a GPS but it makes life easier so why not use it.
 
comanchepilot said:
Like Henning notes, if you intend to fly VFR then bring your cellular iPad. Its got a GPS - try to keep it out of the sun.
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:yeahthat:

Criitter7 said:
I have foreflight on my iPad will a stratus ok? All I do is short little vfr trips and such nothing over 200 miles yet
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With the type of flying you are doing, I'd say the stratus isn't necessary and would be kind of a waste when you are only flying VFR trips and only short distances.
 
I think there's a sub-sub-sub-sub-sub forum for people who fly gps-less planes.....most of us dont dare to go in there tho.

For me, my nexus7 tends to be my primary and if the plane has a 430 that's my backup, other than the radio, obviously.
 
Great time to practice intercepting VOR radials and using a nav log. Heck, you could even do ---- DEAD RECKONING------ .:yikes::yikes::yikes:

All kidding aside though, that iPad with ForeFlight and a Stratus reciever is about 100 times more fancy than the old monochrome handheld GPS thingy I used to use to fly around Washington and Oregon with in a beat up old Citabria.
 
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timrb said:
He's looking for planes that don't ask GPS questions.

Tim
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Now that makes sense. Tough to find a GPS that doesn't ask questions these days.
 
Criitter7 said:
Looking to rent from a club where none of the planes have a GPS installed. I know I'll get yelled at from the no we don't need no stinking GPS crowd, but is it a big deal. up Til now all the planes I've flown in had a GPS of some type. I know how to fly without one but having it as a backup makes me warm and fuzzy inside. I have foreflight on my iPad will a stratus ok? All I do is short little vfr trips and such nothing over 200 miles yet
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Add a Road Atlas to your gear.:yesnod:
 
I started using Avare on my phone this summer. Seems to work. Before that, everything was done using the original digital moving map technology - my finger on a paper chart.

Hardly a big deal one way or ta udder.
 
Criitter7 said:
I have foreflight on my iPad will a stratus ok?
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I have a couple thousand hours of real xc without a panel mounted gps so I don't see it as a necessity. Yet.
I would turn off the FF and get used to a little non-gps flying. With an experienced safety pilot, put on a hood and "get lost" without reference to any navaids or gps. Then find your way home. Do this a few times to make yourself comfortable with no-gps flying. (In fact I think fledgling pilots should find a situation where they can safely simulate total electrical failure for an hour or so, but not sure it's kosher to suggest trying that.)
 
There's not a certified GPS in my plane and I've been flying it for a few years without complaint. I added an iPad/Stratus/Foreflight a few years back, but they're by no means necessary (other than I don't carry paper charts anymore).

VFR is no problem at all. Look outside, use VORs and back everything up with Foreflight to add situational awareness. I got my instrument rating in this plane as well and other than the occasional "Unable direct, we're /A" to ATC, it hasn't made much difference there either. And when that happens I usually suggest/offer to take a vector (based on the unapproved GPS) like "Unable direct, but it looks like a vector of 230 will get me close" and then let them decide which they'd prefer.
 
Sorry for rambling. I was upside down under a dashboard at work thinking while I work, and typing( very dangerous btw) I'm new to flying, received my ppl in May. All the planes I've been in had a 430 or a king gps in them so I haven't been in one without one. It just seems kinda weird to me I guess. I would honestly say I probably wouldn't really miss a gps the more I think about it. I hardly look at it, Ive used a vor on all my long flights I've taken. I'll just ff and stratus and fly the way flying was suppose to be!
Thanks guys
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Probably wears a digital watch too.
Bet he can't even do his laundry a wash board and clothesline like a real man.

Damn kids with their central air, microwaves and automatic transmission.
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Actually my f350 is the first automobile I've own that's an auto.
 
I admit it.... I learned on a 6 pack 3 years ago. Since then accumulated 570 hours flying in a Cirrus - no flipping way I wouldn't fly without GPS :) And I bring 2 ipads and a stratus.. no way I;m getting lost :)

BUT be damn certain that I can (and still do) navigate solely by VOR... All my long flights I have all the VOR's freq's and expected radials and I routinely fly only on VOR...
 
I love my 430/Garmin Aera and IPad with ForeFlight, but I have to say that one of the most enjoyable flights I made recently was in the Waco: I turned off the Garmin, closed up the iPad and pulled out an old fashioned paper sectional and followed the railroad tracks and other landmarks home. Sometimes it is a pleasant change of pace to go back to the old school way of doing things.
 
Personally, I find VOR navigation much less reliable than GPS. It seems like a lot of VORs are constantly going out of service for repair, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I learned navigation before GPS was an option, I'm comfortable without it, but more comfortable, and more fuel efficient with it.
 
Hi Brian.

I guess you have figured out you don't need GPS. I can tell you though that it is really nice. :)
 
If you NEED a GPS VFR, I'll suggest that what you really need is some training.

You don't need VORs either. You need to understand navigation. Like we all had to learn as student pilots. This is why.

Jeez.
 
Well, there's a difference between need and excercising prudent judgement. I don't disagree that people should at least be competent if not comfortable without it, but at the same time it's a bit foolish not to take advantage of the fuel savings, not to mention weather and traffic information, modern systems provide. It's another tool is all.
 
What fuel savings do you get VFR with a GPS that you can't get with a good dead reckoning solution?

I don't have much experience with inflight weather as all I really get that's useful from the XM is METARs that I can get by radio. Not many thunderstorms here. But the traffic is not very useful. LOTS of stuff doesn't show up and the time delay sets off false alarms.

If it's just another tool, that's fine, but dependence on it is not.
 
MAKG1 said:
What fuel savings do you get VFR with a GPS that you can't get with a good dead reckoning solution?

I don't have much experience with inflight weather as all I really get that's useful from the XM is METARs that I can get by radio. Not many thunderstorms here. But the traffic is not very useful. LOTS of stuff doesn't show up and the time delay sets off false alarms.

If it's just another tool, that's fine, but dependence on it is not.
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Direct flight with all wind corrections done in real time. A "good" dead reckoning solution is not that good and requires considerable distraction from flying and looking out the window to continuously update.
 
comanchepilot said:
'Ded' reckoning . . . to be precise!
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Fearless Tower said:
Or not.
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MAKG1 said:
That's disputed.
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It's a meaningless dispute really since it's understood either way, however if one refers to Bowditch's The American Practical Navigator, the official go to text for all things navigation, the spelling is Dead Reckoning.

Dead reckoning (DR) determines position by advancing a known position for courses and distances. A position so determined is called a dead reckoning (DR) position. It is generally accepted that only course and speed determine the DR position. Correcting the DR position for leeway, current effects, and steering error result in an estimated position (EP).
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So in fact, once we correct for winds aloft, we are no longer Dead Reckoning.
 
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I like having a GPS when in real tight airspace boundaries, like entering/leaving the Washington DC FRZ and SFRA; some of the boundaries are pretty close in there. Even VFR.

Reliability? GPS is a vulnerable source for navigation, but if truly VFR, it's an inconvenience to lose it, vs a real pain when IFR.

I haven't had a VOR go off the air in flight; have lost GPS 4 or 5 times, but never IFR.
 
When I was flying with no GPS or LORAN and no NAV radios, I kept my finger on the chart all the time to keep up with where I was. With GPS, flying is a LOT more relaxing :).
 
champ driver said:
What's a GPS?
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Isn't that the thing that they said would replace the A-N range? Never wanted one, either the A-N range or that new thing. And what is this VORTAX they're talking about. Don't we pay enough already?

Scott
(Another Champ driver)
 
MAKG1 said:
If you NEED a GPS VFR, I'll suggest that what you really need is some training.

You don't need VORs either. You need to understand navigation. Like we all had to learn as student pilots. This is why.

Jeez.
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along those same lines, I don't NEED enything to fly more than a powered parachute, but windows, a heater, and more speed sure are nice. So nice that I'd call them "needs".

If I could interrupt your chest thumping, GPS is the same way. If I have a tool that lets me fly a perfectly straight line and use the minimum amount of fuel, I'm going to use it. I'm not out to prove anything to anyone, I just want to get from here to there in the most efficient manner.
 
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