Plane purchase without a In person inspection

[Johnny Costello]

I know the current market is a sellers market but has anyone heard of someone purchasing a plane sight unseen except for video and pictures?

 

[martym]

I've bought planes sight unseen. One was at auction. Can always figure out what's wrong with it when you get it home.

 

[GeorgeC]

Sure. What could go wrong?

 

[wheaties]

I did. Owner was an A&P, the pictures spoke for themselves, and the plane was far enough away that if I was coming to see it I'd just fly it home. Given the history of the plane and a half decent prebuy it was a good decision.

 

[Hang 4]

I did as well. Have had the plane almost 5 years with no regrets. Not sure some of the ones I looked at online would have been as good though.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

All of mine were purchased sight unseen (C-150, PA32-260, and V35A TC). I had no surprises. But, I am a mechanic and figured I could deal with it.

For each I did do a careful log book review and looked at lots of pictures inside and out. The Bonanza was flown home from Bend Oregon. The Six was flown to me and purchase off Ebay. The Cessna was a local purchase.

 

[Htaylor]

I know the current market is a sellers market but has anyone heard of someone purchasing a plane sight unseen except for video and pictures?

Many times. When I used to ferry aircraft for a couple of dealers, most of their planes were bought sight unseen. They'd pay for it and I'd go get it. Sometimes it was a great plane. Others it was a pile.

 

[Country Flier]

In May of last year, I sold a plane in 10 minutes, sight unseen. The gentleman who saw my ad online wired me my asking price to my bank account after asking me a couple of questions on the phone just minutes after I posted my ad. 4 days later, he picked up the keys to the plane standing in front of my hangar, with the hangar doors closed. I said, "Wouldn't you like to see the plane first?" He responded, "I'll have plenty of time to see it when I'm flying it home."
I opened up the hangar, pulled out the plane, he jumped in, started it up, but then shut it down. He climbed out of the plane and asked, "Will you take me up, once around the pattern, before I go?" So I took him up, and before even turning to crosswind he said, "I don't know why I asked you to take me up. You can land now." I landed, got out, and he flew away.
Its a very weird market, where people are willing to drop $100k on something without any due diligence. I spoke with the owner/seller of a similar plane who sold last summer with a similar story, selling his plane sight unseen, money wired, etc.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

I have made initial purchase decisions sight unseen, subject to verification with a pre buy inspection. If the airplane meets all your requirements on paper, then it should meet them in real life.

 

[Unit74]

I’ve bought two planes from afar with detailed pics and a prebuy that was converted into an annual. I sold one, and the the first time the buyer touched it was when I taxied up with his new airplane, 1800 miles away.


So yea, it’s pretty common I think.

 

[Kristin]

As Harry Callahan said: "Do you feel lucky?" Just because someone else got lucky, doesn't mean you will.

 

[TrueCourse]

In May of last year, I sold a plane in 10 minutes, sight unseen.

I like hearing stories like this. As long as I had the cash, I could determine it was no scam, believed it was a sound plane, and had nerves of steel, I would do this. Now if only I can put all of those factors together at once.

The part about a upfront full price wire is a bit much. I’d rather do a deposit than balance due.

 

[Country Flier]

I like hearing stories like this. As long as I had the cash, I could determine it was no scam, believed it was a sound plane, and had nerves of steel, I would do this. Now if only I can put all of those factors together at once.

The part about a upfront full price wire is a bit much. I’d rather do a deposit than balance due.

I may have contributed (somewhat unknowingly) to the "full price up front" part...while talking on the phone to the eventual purchaser, and mind you, this was within 10 minutes of posting my ad, I received numerous other phone calls from out of state that all went to voicemail. I assumed, correctly, that these other calls were other potential buyers too, so even though the guy wanted to first wire me a deposit I told him "no", since it would lock him into my plane / my plane to him, until he found the time to travel several states to come see it. When I wouldn't take the deposit he then said he would just wire the whole amount. In the morning I called my bank just to make sure there was no way he could scam me. They said the only scamming that could occur, once the funds were in my account, would be me scamming him, but not the other way around.

 

[Bell206]

has anyone heard of someone purchasing a plane sight unseen except for video and pictures?

In my experience, there are 2 types of aircraft owners: those who understand the aviation system and those who are learning the system. A subset of the former group are those who follow the rules as they are and operate top-shelf aircraft regardless of age or total time. These subset owners rarely get prebuys done as the aircraft are basically in perfect form and function. There are several on PoA who fall into this group.

The remaining percentage of this “former” group personally know when they need a prebuy, by who, and to what level. However, it’s the latter group of owners that are learning the system that need the most input and assistance when buying an aircraft and especially their 1st aircraft. The only effect the current market has on these groups is that more of the "learning" group think they can follow the "former" group of owners SOP. And sometimes to very expensive results.

But regardless which group a prospective owner fall into, the one person who can give an owner the greatest input on whether to buy an aircraft sight unseen, with a 3rd party prebuy, or any of the above will be the APIA they will use to maintain their new aircraft purchase. Because it this APIA that will be the one who will tell the new owner where that aircraft falls short and at what price.

 

[RudyP]

My friend just bought a phenom 100 unseen (well technically many of us have seen it at Oshkosh, it has a rather distinctive paint scheme). But jets on programs are a bit different than piston GA

 

[GeorgeC]

The remaining percentage of this “former” group personally know when they need a prebuy, by who, and to what level. However, it’s the latter group of owners that are learning the system that need the most input and assistance when buying an aircraft and especially their 1st aircraft. The only effect the current market has on these groups is that more of the "learning" group think they can follow the "former" group of owners SOP. And sometimes to very expensive results.

The first time buyer cargo cultism of "look for XYZ characteristics, get a prebuy, do all the right things, etc etc etc -> likely have a good outcome" is very seductive.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

Writing comments sometimes doesn’t do full justice to the topic at hand. Buying an airplane is a relatively big deal for most people. Some of us have heard horror stories about an airplane that went south after the buy, leaving the owner with an unairworthy aircraft requiring more money to repair than the airplane is worth. IMHO the best way to prevent this is to only buy airplanes in flyable condition, with recent valid annuals, that don't need any major work soon. Any aircraft with an expired annual or a major repair due should be avoided unless you are willing to spend the time time and money to bring it up to standard. I say let someone else do that and I'll go flying in my new purchase.

Having said that, in the 3 years I have owned my 64 mooney, I have spent about $24k on various upgrades and repairs, but I also have put about 200 hours of flight time on her. The airframe has about 2930 hours and 930 SMOH. Imagine how a new owner would feel if he was suddenly faced with $24k in repairs before he could even fly the aircraft?

Would I decide to buy sight unseen? Yes. I have twice, but subject to a prebuy inspection to verify the seller's claims and airworthiness. If I can't fly it, I wouldn't buy it. But that is me.

 

[Jeff767]

A RV 10 that was nearly new was purchased with a fresh annual but no prebuy from a known shop. At the first annual it was discovered the aircraft had a fire on engine start that was put out with a blast from a improper fire extinguisher using a highly corrosive agent. The airplane was worthless other than the engine and avionics.
The strange thing is how many extinguishers not usable on aircraft are in hangars everywhere. You get a fire on start that is not a big issue and a Good Samaritan wrecks your aircraft.

“Dry chemical extinguishers can cause extensive corrosion damage to airplane structure, electrical systems, and electronic equipment. Dry chemical extinguisher residue is difficult to clean up. Dry chemical fire extinguishers should only be used for airplane firefighting if there are no other extinguishers available and there is imminent danger to property or personnel.”

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

Bought my Cherokee sight unseen but asked the seller to ferry it to my airport, roughly 700 NM. He agreed so I figured things can't be too bad with the plane. Had several minor issues with it (tach failure, 50 year old fuel valve leaking, interior lights not working), nothing the seller could have known about since those things worked when I got the plane and became faulty as I was flying it. Also, as soon as I got it, I got my mechanic to redo the interior and do an annual inspection although it wasn't due at the time. I expected that I'll have to spend some money on it. I got it for a good enough price that I budgeted it in. I'm now close to reaching that additional budget though so things better stop breaking now lol.

On the flip side, I bought a Cessna 150 locally and checked it beforehand. Nothing was needed during my ownership except for oil changes. I bought an Ercoupe locally, that one needed an engine rebuild after flying it for 30 or so hours. The previous owner of that plane didn't take care of it too well and I really brought that plane back to life in a way, fixing all of his deferred issues.

So, at least for me, it's hit and miss - doesn't matter if I see the plane beforehand or not.

 

[Bell206]

The strange thing is how many extinguishers not usable on aircraft are in hangars everywhere.

FYI: you'll find that other rules determine the use of dry chemical extinguishers in aviation related settings and buildings. There's been more than one "heated" discussion over extinguisher type in areas around aircraft. Unfortunately, most people involved, to include some of the aviation people themselves, do not know or understand the damage a dry chemical extinguisher can do to an aluminum structure. Regardless, there are some actions that can performed to greatly reduce this damage but its 100% success has a number of variables to include the extent of disassembly required to clean it.