Plane in the water at Shelter Cove

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Flapsonfire

Filing Flight Plan
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Flapsonfire
I don't post here much but I thought y'all might like to see this. Both pilot and passenger were rescued by the very capable Shelter Cove Fire Dept. This is very deep, cold water here...the plane will never be seen again. There's also a DC-3 down there as well from a '60s incident. I fly here all the time and have seen plenty of crazy stuff. These guys were extremely lucky.
 
Must be awfully tempting to stretch the glide when you’re that close to land. They came down pretty hard. Glad to hear they are ok.
 
Looks like he stalled it a second too soon - the airplane was rolling to the right. Lucky it didn't cartwheel or impact in a more nose-down attitude.

I remember that 1971 DC-3 accident at Shelter Cove. It was full of real estate prospects taking a tour of the development. The airplane took off with gust locks in. :( https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19710628-0
 
Holy crap they are lucky! That water can be very rough and terribly cold.

Hard to tell from the video if the engine had failed, or they got too slow and stalled on short final.
 
Looks like he was trying to pull up the gear at the last second.
 
mr_happyland said:
Looks like he was trying to pull up the gear at the last second.
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Yep, when it appeared that a ditching was imminent. Of course, retracting at the first sign of trouble my have prevented a ditching, we'll see.
I think I'll continue my "chop and drop" ways in small planes.
 
Pilawt said:
Glad for a successful outcome, but this sounds a bit odd to me:

"One of the crash victims swam to shore, changed into a wetsuit and paddled back out to help the other victim."
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I'm pretty sure that's not what happened. I think it was a man and a woman and the woman swam to shore and was hypothermic and put on a stokes and hauled off the beach to the airport where they were both eventually airlifted to the hospital in Eureka. I think the man was rescued from the water. I was out flying there today and looked at where it happened and the woman swam to what's called 'Little Black Sands' beach which is just south of Black Sands Beach, one of the most dangerous beaches in the world.
 
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Pilawt said:
Glad for a successful outcome, but this sounds a bit odd to me:

"One of the crash victims swam to shore, changed into a wetsuit and paddled back out to help the other victim."
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That’s because it’s not true. The pilot showed exemplary skill and demonstrated quick thinking and great use of emergency procedures. Many a pilot would not have acted the same and would have met the same fate as the plane. Hats off to both of them!
 
Empty V said:
The pilot showed exemplary skill and demonstrated quick thinking and great use of emergency procedures. Many a pilot would not have acted the same and would have met the same fate as the plane. Hats off to both of them!
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Huh?

Did a water landing gear down and stalled it more than 10 feet above the water. Sounds more lucky than good to me.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Huh?

Did a water landing gear down and stalled it more than 10 feet above the water. Sounds more lucky than good to me.
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Wrong. He landed gear up. If he didn't he would have cartwheeled over the nose wheel. He did not enter a stall spin and did an amazing job managing the situation.
 
Empty V said:
Wrong. He landed gear up. If he didn't he would have cartwheeled over the nose wheel. He did not enter a stall spin and did an amazing job managing the situation.
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Note, the gear was down on approach but he retracted it at the last moment.

Well, he did make 1 mistake, if he was have problems making power, he should have left the landing gear/flaps up, there’s no reason to have that drag if making the airport is in question. Might even have made the runway.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Note, the gear was down on approach but he retracted it at the last moment.

Well, he did make 1 mistake, if he was have problems making power, he should have left the landing gear/flaps up, there’s no reason to have that drag if making the airport is in question. Might even have made the runway.
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He was on his final approach, that's why the landing gear was down. When he realized he couldn't make it, he retracted them right before the impact so he wouldn't cartwheel.
 
Empty V said:
That’s because it’s not true. The pilot showed exemplary skill and demonstrated quick thinking and great use of emergency procedures. Many a pilot would not have acted the same and would have met the same fate as the plane. Hats off to both of them!
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Since you joined just to post this, should we assume you're said pilot? Or maybe you have additional information about this accident that you'd like to share.
 
Empty V said:
Wrong. He landed gear up. If he didn't he would have cartwheeled over the nose wheel. He did not enter a stall spin and did an amazing job managing the situation.
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They were in motion, but clearly still down on impact in that video.
 
Looking again at 1/4 speed, it appears the gear was down, then appears to have went up, possibly not locking up then down again a moment before splash down. My computer screen is small making it hard to determine the nose gear position.
 
Lindberg said:
Since you joined just to post this, should we assume you're said pilot? Or maybe you have additional information about this accident that you'd like to share.
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I was linked to this page by a pilot friend who found it and felt that I should add some clarity to the situation. I am not the pilot. He pulled the landing gear up at the last moment, which was the correct procedure. I see in the video that they went back down which I'm guessing is just part of the mechanical failure he experienced.
 
Empty V said:
I was linked to this page by a pilot friend who found it and felt that I should add some clarity to the situation. I am not the pilot. He pulled the landing gear up at the last moment, which was the correct procedure. I see in the video that they went back down which I'm guessing is just part of the mechanical failure he experienced.
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but I thought you said if the gear was down (which it was) he would have cartwheeled over the nosewheel?
 
eman1200 said:
but I thought you said if the gear was down (which it was) he would have cartwheeled over the nosewheel?
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I thought it was, I made a mistake. I did not see that they dropped right before impact. Good job calling me out. Do you feel better about yourself now?
 
Empty V said:
I thought it was, I made a mistake. I did not see that they dropped right before impact. Good job calling me out. Do you feel better about yourself now?
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Empty V said:
Wrong. He landed gear up. If he didn't he would have cartwheeled over the nose wheel. He did not enter a stall spin and did an amazing job managing the situation.
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I believe it was you who joined this forum and within 1 or 2 posts immediately and incorrectly called someone out. did you feel better about yourself, even though you were wrong?
 
Empty V said:
He was on his final approach, that's why the landing gear was down. When he realized he couldn't make it….
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Yes, landing gear down approach is the normal procedure, but this wasn’t normal circumstances, clearly he wasn’t making power, so gear should be retracted to minimize drag. He might have been able to make it, the gear is a huge drag when extended.
 
eman1200 said:
I believe it was you who joined this forum and within 1 or 2 posts immediately and incorrectly called someone out. did you feel better about yourself, even though you were wrong?
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I was wrong, and I apologize for that. I was watching the video on my phone and going off the pilot's report. Which is that he pulled the gear up. You win buddy.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Yes, landing gear down approach is the normal procedure, but this wasn’t normal circumstances, clearly he wasn’t making power, so gear should be retracted to minimize drag. He might have been able to make it, the gear is a huge drag when extended.
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He thought he was going to make it. He was only 300-400 yards from the shore.
 
Empty V said:
I was linked to this page by a pilot friend who found it and felt that I should add some clarity to the situation. I am not the pilot. He pulled the landing gear up at the last moment, which was the correct procedure. I see in the video that they went back down which I'm guessing is just part of the mechanical failure he experienced.
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Ok, you're not the pilot (maybe that was your "pilot friend"). Do you have additional information that's not apparent from the video? I'm still left wondering why someone thought to call your attention specifically to this thread, and you felt the need to join the forum just to point out the pilot's exemplary skill. But I hope you'll stick around and contribute to other discussions as well.
 
It was a v-tail that crashed, errr ditched, and new posters name is Empty V. That's interesting :)
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Yep, when it appeared that a ditching was imminent. Of course, retracting at the first sign of trouble my have prevented a ditching, we'll see.
I think I'll continue my "chop and drop" ways in small planes.
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If I'm somewhere flat and open I don't worry too much, but if I'm around hills/trees/water I often opt for the chop and drop on final. Have seen too many accidents when pulling power during final. Just my opinion.
 
The airplane was N9520Y, registered to an LLC out of Montana but I believe the actual owner is a web developer who lives in Santa Barbara.


Additionally you can read scanner traffic here, sounds like eyewitnesses heard it sputtering before it went down. Also the woman swam to shore, but the man had to be pulled to shore by a firefighter on a paddle board.
 
Some of you seem to think that if the gear was down, the airplane will cartwheel or flip. There are many videos of fixed gear ditching where the airplane stays upright.

Last week I watched a webinar about best glide techniques, and the presenter described a technique I had never heard of he called a "bunny hop." He said you descend flaps up to ground effect, add ten degrees of flaps and avoid climbing... as you slow, add another ten degrees of flaps... and again. He said you can add 1,000 feet before touching down. It's a technique I plan to try over a long runway.

BTW, skeptics: the presenter is a CFI and aviation professor at a well-known 4-year university aviation program.
 
The pilot is my cousin. He lost power obviously well before pulling power on final. He tried everything to recover and I know he went through his emergency procedures like a pro. I will not give a step by step of what happened because it's not my place. If he wants to do that, then he can. There's always haters online that like to criticize and speculate error. He did everything by the book and it saved his and his passenger's lives. I doubt most people on here would not have handled it as well. A friend of mine, who is also a pilot, found the video on this thread and sent me the link. And Empty V is a "pun" on MTV. I didn't know about this forum and joined to chime in with some truth. I plan on learning and contributing as long as this is a friendly place. So far it's not off to a good start, like most forums.
 
Empty V said:
... as long as this is a friendly place. So far it's not off to a good start, like most forums.
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yup, it's got to be the forums fault. all of the forums.

you may want to consider going back and re-reading all of the posts before you chimed in. literally no haters and no criticizing, just observations.
 
Probably would have been good to lead with the fact that you're related to the pilot. As for doing everything perfectly... well, obviously not; everything we do could have been done a little better. That's assuming of course that it was a non-preventable engine out.

I don't know if I'd be able to do as well ditching. It's got to be tough to judge exactly how far off the surface you are when you're down that low. trying to time it so you hit with minimum energy while also trying to manage everything else, the adrenaline, the screaming passenger -- well, mine usually are.

POA is a pretty friendly place if you arrive without swagger, bluster, or BS.
 
Empty V said:
The pilot is my cousin. He lost power obviously well before pulling power on final. He tried everything to recover and I know he went through his emergency procedures like a pro. I will not give a step by step of what happened because it's not my place. If he wants to do that, then he can. There's always haters online that like to criticize and speculate error. He did everything by the book and it saved his and his passenger's lives. I doubt most people on here would not have handled it as well. A friend of mine, who is also a pilot, found the video on this thread and sent me the link. And Empty V is a "pun" on MTV. I didn't know about this forum and joined to chime in with some truth. I plan on learning and contributing as long as this is a friendly place. So far it's not off to a good start, like most forums.
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It's possible you're biased. But this is a forum for rational discussion of mishaps.

In this case, your cousin did a good job, and everyone is alive because of it. I don't see anyone questioning that. But he certainly didn't do "everything by the book," since the book says in case of power loss to drop the gear once reaching the chosen landing site is assured.

Don't take that personally. Or as a criticism. Or that the forum is unfriendly. Nobody's perfect, and only a precious few of us have truly "exemplary" skill. I understand your desire to defend your cousin, but if you make outlandish claims, expect to get called on them.
 
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Gilbert Buettner said:
Some of you seem to think that if the gear was down, the airplane will cartwheel or flip. There are many videos of fixed gear ditching where the airplane stays upright.

Last week I watched a webinar about best glide techniques, and the presenter described a technique I had never heard of he called a "bunny hop." He said you descend flaps up to ground effect, add ten degrees of flaps and avoid climbing... as you slow, add another ten degrees of flaps... and again. He said you can add 1,000 feet before touching down. It's a technique I plan to try over a long runway.

BTW, skeptics: the presenter is a CFI and aviation professor at a well-known 4-year university aviation program.
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Add 1,000 feet over what?

From altitude x best glide is y mph which puts you on the ground at z feet and his method adds a thousand?

Tia
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Last week I watched a webinar about best glide techniques, and the presenter described a technique I had never heard of he called a "bunny hop." He said you descend flaps up to ground effect, add ten degrees of flaps and avoid climbing... as you slow, add another ten degrees of flaps... and again. He said you can add 1,000 feet before touching down. It's a technique I plan to try over a long runway.

BTW, skeptics: the presenter is a CFI and aviation professor at a well-known 4-year university aviation program.
Click to expand...

I think it's referring to glide extension in ground effect. Really doesn't have anything to do with "best glide speed" and won't help if you aren't over pretty smooth and unobstructed terrain. Not sure how it would help in an engine out scenario, except maybe to reach shore if you are over water.

I can do that in my hang glider by coming in hot and staying in ground effect. Can get further down the field than I could out of ground effect.
 
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