Plane crash- not even sure what to say

jspilot

jspilot

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
1,346
Display Name
Display name:
jspilot
If I computed the time right, pretty crappy. 1/4 mile in fog, 200 OVC or less at JFK and FRG both. LL windshear advisories too.


I suspect when the press says "missed a runway" they were talking about a pilot executing a missed approach.

Flight Aware track: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N5296H

I have the JFK appaoch liveATC feed going now to see if I can catch them.
 
Last edited:
Get-there-itis. I’m usually not the one to arm chair quarterback but no single engine plane had any business flying around yesterday. There were no good options to divert. Most airports were below CAT I mins.
 
Wonder if the pilot was even instrument rated. In any event, sounds like a severe case of get-home-itis, with predicable results, given the weather.
 
Glad everyone is OK, I am not a big fan of the "Darwin Awards" concept; I, for one, have done my share of stupid carp, glad I didn't have to die for it.
 
Accented but apparently reasonable radio discipline on the first missed from FRG. Tower is giving winds 220@10G15 most of the approach. Still trying to find it on the approach frequency.

Found the handoff for the first approach here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kjfk/KJFK-NY-App-ROBER-Apr-15-2019-0100Z.mp3 about 9:40 in. Comes back from the missed at 15:00. Asks for another. Vectored around and handed off to tower again at 17:20. At 22:58 he comes back and Approach asks him if he has an alternate airport, but the pilot says "I think I can make it this time" and requests another. Handed off to tower at 28:00.

Then in the 130Z file at 4:50, he asks for yet another. At this point, ATC asks how much fuel he has. The pilot replies he is unsure, but guesses that he's got a half an hour left. It's at this time he inquires about the ceilings at JFK. Approach gives RVR at JFK (pretty bad) and indefinite 300' ceiling. Told to expect ILS 22L.
 
Last edited:
Not sure what the average endurance of this particular aircraft is, but fuel exhaustion occurred on this flight at the 4:02 mark, and the previous flight was 3:38. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
 
Just checked the TAFs. Don't know what he was planning, the TAFs for JFK at the time of his departure predicted 200OVC and not expected to improve until 2AM (and even then not very much).
 
Last edited:
Accented but apparently reasonable radio discipline on the first missed from FRG. Tower is giving winds 220@10G15 most of the approach. Still trying to find it on the approach frequency.

Found the handoff for the first approach here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kj...2019-0100Z.mp3 about 9:40 in. Comes back from the missed at 15:00. Asks for another. Vectored around and handed off to tower again at 17:20. At 22:58 he comes back and Approach asks him if he has an alternate airport, but the pilot says "I think I can make it this time" and requests another. Handed off to tower at 28:00.

Then in the 130Z file at 4:50, he asks for yet another. At this point, ATC asks how much fuel he has. The pilot replies he is unsure, but guesses that he's got a half an hour left. It's at this time he inquires about the ceilings at JFK. Approach gives RVR at JFK (pretty bad) and indefinite 300' ceiling. Told to expect ILS 22L.

At this point he's coming apart. Having hard times with altitudes and headings. Can't find the ATIS freq for JFK. The controller also volunteers the localizer frequency. "You're reversing course on me buddy. We got to figure something out here." Finally gets him on the localizer and hands him off to tower at 20:00.

Approach pretty much clears out 22L at this point to accomodate him. He comes up in the 200Z file at 4:15 with a very panicked voice on the missed. Sounds very stressed after brought around for the next approach. Thinks has 15 minutes left. Approach brings in back around close in. Given to tower at 7:00 now.

Apparently they lost the RVR for the other runway, so all the airline approaches were shutdown at this point.
 
Last edited:
mryan75 said:
Not sure what the average endurance of this particular aircraft is, but fuel exhaustion occurred on this flight at the 4:02 mark, and the previous flight was 3:38. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
Click to expand...
Full tanks gives you about 4.5hrs endurance.
 
mryan75 said:
Not sure what the average endurance of this particular aircraft is, but fuel exhaustion occurred on this flight at the 4:02 mark, and the previous flight was 3:38. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
Click to expand...

Actually his fuel planning probably met IFR minimums.

The route was ~280 NM. A 172N with 3-180 lb passengers is at gross with 40 gallons of fuel. Cessna says 40 gallons of fuel @ 8000 ft yields an endurance of 4:06.

Subtract fuel for the plane not making published TAS, less than perfect leaning, winds greater than forecast, vectors, more missed approaches than planned, failure to monitor fuel, and things go to crap pretty quickly.
 
Ryanb said:
Full tanks gives you about 4.5hrs endurance.
Click to expand...
"About" being the operative word here. :)

I didn't look at the time until he first went missed, but assuming the fuel burn and endurance is about the same as my Cherokee (both 160 hp), you'd be insane to try and fly from Niagara Falls to Farmingdale hard IFR in this plane. It's 296 nm direct. The route he filed was 324 nm and a duration of 3:30.
 
Clip4 said:
Actually his fuel planning probably met IFR minimums.

The route was ~280 NM. A 172N with 3-180 lb passengers is at gross with 40 gallons of fuel. Cessna says 40 gallons of fuel @ 8000 ft yields an endurance of 4:06.

Subtract fuel for the plane not making published TAS, less than perfect leaning, winds greater than forecast, vectors, more missed approaches than planned, failure to monitor fuel, and things go to crap pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N5296H

Took off at 5:12, crash is reported to have happened at like 10:15. Went missed 5 times. These planes are actually pretty amazing. They really give you a chance.
 
Yeah the weather was bad around here but why take off in the first place-- honestly very interested to find out what happens to this pilot! He showed tremendously poor judgement in so many ways. He's very lucky to be alive.
 
Clip4 said:
Actually his fuel planning probably met IFR minimums.

The route was ~280 NM. A 172N with 3-180 lb passengers is at gross with 40 gallons of fuel. Cessna says 40 gallons of fuel @ 8000 ft yields an endurance of 4:06.

Subtract fuel for the plane not making published TAS, less than perfect leaning, winds greater than forecast, vectors, more missed approaches than planned, failure to monitor fuel, and things go to crap pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

He nearly 3 1/2 hours into the flight before he got to COL to enter the NY terminal area. TEB was 1600 OVC at that point.

Fuel=options in IFR.
 
Last edited:
jspilot said:
Yeah the weather was bad around here but why take off in the first place-- honestly very interested to find out what happens to this pilot! He showed tremendously poor judgement in so many ways. He's very lucky to be alive.
Click to expand...
It was Sunday. He had to get back for work.
 
jordane93 said:
It was Sunday. He had to get back for work.
Click to expand...

I mean why, even take off in the morning! It was foggy beyond belief here on Long Island and I could barely see 150 feet in front of me when I was driving a car early Sunday morning! It's a minor miracle the guy even got up there in the first place!
 
Last edited:
These circumstances, trim it for a decent rate, stay on centerline and you get a slightly bumpy landing on a giant runway.

My Instrument instructor made me do a couple of blind ones because, said he, "You never know when it could turn on you bad. Better to crash on a runway."
 
SCCutler said:
These circumstances, trim it for a decent rate, stay on centerline and you get a slightly bumpy landing on a giant runway.

My Instrument instructor made me do a couple of blind ones because, said he, "You never know when it could turn on you bad. Better to crash on a runway."
Click to expand...
Yep, "I may bend your precious airplane, but I'll get it down."
 
jspilot said:
I mean why, even take off in the morning! It was foggy beyond belief here on Long Island and I could barely see 150 feet in front of me when I was driving a car early Sunday morning! It's a minor miracle the guy even got up there in the first place!
Click to expand...
Yea, I live 10 minutes away from FRG. It wasn’t pretty yesterday.
 
jordane93 said:
Get-there-itis. I’m usually not the one to arm chair quarterback but no single engine plane had any business flying around yesterday. There were no good options to divert. Most airports were below CAT I mins.
Click to expand...

He never should have left from his departure airport. At 1700 they were calling 200 1/4 or less. So they took off leaving themselves little options except to divert to some place further than JFK. That was poor planning on thier part. But that flight school has a notoriously bad reputation on the field.
 
Wonder what he did for a pre flight ,on the weather and conditions en route. Might have asked if any airports in the area had marginal VFR ,after first missed.
 
Hey, the pax made their flight back to Korea so no worries :)
 
Same Dongil Kim??

Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Date of Issue: 4/27/2013

Ratings:
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA

Type Ratings:
C/B-737

Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
THE B-737 IS SUBJECT TO PILOT-IN-COMMAND LIMITATION(S).
 
alfadog said:
Wonder if the pilot was even instrument rated. In any event, sounds like a severe case of get-home-itis, with predicable results, given the weather.
Click to expand...

Looks like he was a B-737 pilot from Korea...
From Airman's DB
I removed the name and address to protect the innocent... or guilty as it may be...
And based on the fact that he was listed as 26 years old (2019 - 2013) means he was most likely 19 or 20 when he got the commercial cert.

Name ********
Adress: *********
Country: REPUBLIC OF KOREA
Medical Information:
Medical Class: Second Medical Date: 8/2011
BasicMed Course Date: None BasicMed CMEC Date: None
Certificates
COMMERCIAL PILOT
Certificates Description

Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Date of Issue: 4/27/2013

Ratings:
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA

Type Ratings:
C/B-737


Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
THE B-737 IS SUBJECT TO PILOT-IN-COMMAND LIMITATION(S).
 
alfadog said:
Wonder if the pilot was even instrument rated. In any event, sounds like a severe case of get-home-itis, with predicable results, given the weather.
Click to expand...
I went to bed last night right around the time this guy ran out of fuel (~10pm). It was foggy outside. This happened about a half mile from my house! I just left the crash site a few minutes ago, after speaking to a well known Eyewitness News (chn-7) reporter. According to him, the PIC is a "Commercial Rated pilot who flies a 737". I find that very hard to take on face value. He asked several basic questions about the Skyhawk, it's instrumentation, if it was equipped with GPS, etc. Then he asked if I could share a cockpit picture that he could use. The only one that I had on my phone that didn't show anything personal (including my face) was my avatar pic. I let him know that the downed plane may or may not have the same layout. We talked a bit and he wanted to interview me on TV, but I declined.

Update: Just saw my picture on the 5 o'clock news story. Wife was pretty excited:D.
However, she's baffled that a pilot of his credentials could screw up so bad.


IMG_5161.JPG IMG_5160.JPG IMG_5156.JPG
 
Last edited:
Huge amount of Getthereitis. Was there anywhere that he could have landed with like 500' ceilings?

alfadog said:
Wonder if the pilot was even instrument rated. In any event, sounds like a severe case of get-home-itis, with predicable results, given the weather.
Click to expand...

He looks thoroughly rated.

mryan75 said:
Not sure what the average endurance of this particular aircraft is, but fuel exhaustion occurred on this flight at the 4:02 mark, and the previous flight was 3:38. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
Click to expand...

Did fuel exhaustion occur?

mryan75 said:
Second class from 2011?
Click to expand...

Sounds like that was during his US training, and his current medical is probably in Korea. Perhaps he has a piggy back that hasn't shown up yet?
 
Chicago Bearhawk said:
Looks like he was a B-737 pilot from Korea...
From Airman's DB
I removed the name and address to protect the innocent... or guilty as it may be...
And based on the fact that he was listed as 26 years old (2019 - 2013) means he was most likely 19 or 20 when he got the commercial cert.

Name ********
Adress: *********
Country: REPUBLIC OF KOREA
Medical Information:
Medical Class: Second Medical Date: 8/2011
BasicMed Course Date: None BasicMed CMEC Date: None
Certificates
COMMERCIAL PILOT
Certificates Description

Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Date of Issue: 4/27/2013

Ratings:
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA

Type Ratings:
C/B-737


Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
THE B-737 IS SUBJECT TO PILOT-IN-COMMAND LIMITATION(S).
Click to expand...
Well I guess Eyewitness News did their research. Damn :eek:.
Unbelievable!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top