Plane carrying 3 people and 53 dogs down near Waukesha, Wisconsin

I have been wondering. After the crash...Who let the dogs out? Who, who, who, who, who?
 
Is there anything anywhere about what happened? On Approach? Just land short? Had he declared anything? You know, flying stuff?
 
Kenny Taylor said:
I can't imagine the distraction of 53 crated dogs. On the plus side, it should have covered up all the scary noises coming from the Ameriflight plane.
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I flew over 3,000 dogs in my career as a dog freighter. I never flew a Metro, but it was common for me to fly 30-50 at a time in the MU-2 or 414.

For the most part, they go to sleep after you take off and don't make any noise until you land. Every now and then you get an exception. Worst dog I ever flew was a Dalmatian in a crate right behind my head, barked for an entire 3 hour flight non-stop.

At the beginning of my dog freight career I sometimes allowed a non-caged dog to fly copilot. This was a bad idea and I quickly made a policy that crates must be used at all times after one or two dogs dove under the rudder pedals.
 
Kenny Taylor said:
I can't imagine the distraction of 53 crated dogs. On the plus side, it should have covered up all the scary noises coming from the Ameriflight plane.
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Hey now, I'm sure it was held together by nothing but the finest FAA-certified PMA STC TSO duct tape and baling wire.

But since I can't possibly compete with you guys on the puns, I'll get back to actually discussing the accident.

They were on final, cleared to land. Ameriflight got it blocked on FlightAware and FlightRadar24, but it's still there on ADS-B Exchange: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?ica...3.0&showTrace=2022-11-15&timestamp=1668524223

Pilots reported that they were on autopilot and the plane started turning right, they cut off autopilot and it kept turning right in a "death dive" according to what they told the sheriff, in a report obtained by a local TV station: https://www.wisn.com/article/plane-took-death-dive-before-crash-pilot-tells-investigators/41999365

I listened to the LiveATC recordings of MKE approach and UES tower (both 11/15/22 1430Z).

On the approach recording, they check in at 17:25 with Alpha at 11,400 descending 11,000 on the GOPAC2. (This normally happens at DREWD intersection on the arrival.) They get cleared to 6,000 at 18:18 and they acknowledge something else with just their callsign about 20 seconds later but you don't hear the instruction because this LiveATC feed is on a scanner with three frequencies. They get a switch to 125.1 (also one of the three) at 19:57. at 21:10, they get a heading and 4,000. At 23:55 they get 010 heading and 3,000. 26:30 they get a 070 heading, maintain 3000 until established, cleared for the approach. 27:40, contact tower. At 30:45, you can hear Milwaukee Approach starting to try to contact them.

On the tower recording, at 27:00 they check in and are cleared to land. Tower is, unfortunately, not particularly intelligible on this feed. At about 27:40 tower gives them runway conditions and they acknowledge with "7141, appreciate it." There are some further transmissions from the tower and none from the airplane - I know that Tower issued them a low altitude alert but it's not very clear. Then you can hear Tower trying to get a hold of them.

On both recordings, the PM sounds very perky? Chipper? Definitely an upbeat tone. That never goes away... So whatever happened very fast.

FWIW, A Meridian that departed UES about 10 minutes earlier reported negative icing through 6,000 feet.

Looking at the ADS-B data, it appears that they intercepted the localizer and rather than following the glideslope down from 3000, they did a "dive and drive" down to the FAF altitude of 2300, arriving there at about 175 knots. Over the next 46 seconds until they reached the FAF (WAUCA), they slowed to 118. From what I could find online, approach speed is 115 and stall in the landing config is 92. 10 seconds after crossing the FAF they were at 101, and 10 seconds after that is about when they lost control, at 83 knots groundspeed. From that point, they dropped 825 feet in 12 seconds, which is >4000 fpm.

How they managed to find enough energy to arrest that descent, end up over a golf course, and have just the right combination of trees and swamp to slow them down with only minor injuries... Well, those guys had a big bag of luck, and I'm pretty sure they used all of it.

They did find 300 gallons of fuel at the crash site, so it wasn't fuel exhaustion. At first glance, it looks like they just screwed the pooch, Colgan 3407 style, and got really damn lucky. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hey now, I'm sure it was held together by nothing but the finest FAA-certified PMA STC TSO duct tape and baling wire.

But since I can't possibly compete with you guys on the puns, I'll get back to actually discussing the accident.

They were on final, cleared to land. Ameriflight got it blocked on FlightAware and FlightRadar24, but it's still there on ADS-B Exchange: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?ica...3.0&showTrace=2022-11-15&timestamp=1668524223

Pilots reported that they were on autopilot and the plane started turning right, they cut off autopilot and it kept turning right in a "death dive" according to what they told the sheriff, in a report obtained by a local TV station: https://www.wisn.com/article/plane-took-death-dive-before-crash-pilot-tells-investigators/41999365

I listened to the LiveATC recordings of MKE approach and UES tower (both 11/15/22 1430Z).

On the approach recording, they check in at 17:25 with Alpha at 11,400 descending 11,000 on the GOPAC2. (This normally happens at DREWD intersection on the arrival.) They get cleared to 6,000 at 18:18 and they acknowledge something else with just their callsign about 20 seconds later but you don't hear the instruction because this LiveATC feed is on a scanner with three frequencies. They get a switch to 125.1 (also one of the three) at 19:57. at 21:10, they get a heading and 4,000. At 23:55 they get 010 heading and 3,000. 26:30 they get a 070 heading, maintain 3000 until established, cleared for the approach. 27:40, contact tower. At 30:45, you can hear Milwaukee Approach starting to try to contact them.

On the tower recording, at 27:00 they check in and are cleared to land. Tower is, unfortunately, not particularly intelligible on this feed. At about 27:40 tower gives them runway conditions and they acknowledge with "7141, appreciate it." There are some further transmissions from the tower and none from the airplane - I know that Tower issued them a low altitude alert but it's not very clear. Then you can hear Tower trying to get a hold of them.

On both recordings, the PM sounds very perky? Chipper? Definitely an upbeat tone. That never goes away... So whatever happened very fast.

FWIW, A Meridian that departed UES about 10 minutes earlier reported negative icing through 6,000 feet.

Looking at the ADS-B data, it appears that they intercepted the localizer and rather than following the glideslope down from 3000, they did a "dive and drive" down to the FAF altitude of 2300, arriving there at about 175 knots. Over the next 46 seconds until they reached the FAF (WAUCA), they slowed to 118. From what I could find online, approach speed is 115 and stall in the landing config is 92. 10 seconds after crossing the FAF they were at 101, and 10 seconds after that is about when they lost control, at 83 knots groundspeed. From that point, they dropped 825 feet in 12 seconds, which is >4000 fpm.

How they managed to find enough energy to arrest that descent, end up over a golf course, and have just the right combination of trees and swamp to slow them down with only minor injuries... Well, those guys had a big bag of luck, and I'm pretty sure they used all of it.

They did find 300 gallons of fuel at the crash site, so it wasn't fuel exhaustion. At first glance, it looks like they just screwed the pooch, Colgan 3407 style, and got really damn lucky. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation.
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thanks for the details, dawg!
 
Lucky dogs

At least three dogs went home with the first responders who came to their rescue after the plane went down, reports Fox6 News in Milwaukee. Firefighter Elle Steitzer welcomed a puppy named Lucky into her home. Tony Wasielewski, a deputy fire chief, adopted a dog named Marley who leaped into his arms in the wake of the crash. Firefighter and paramedic Amber Christian, meanwhile, brought home a puppy named Artemis who had crawled into her lap. “He just came into my lap and that was it,” Christian told the news station. “He’s the one.”

Obviously a crash course in how to get dogs adopted.






 
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"The three adoptions are only the start. Lake Country Fire & Rescue’s assistant chief told FOX6 News that more members of the team will likely adopt dogs from the crash in the coming days." Not sure that was the kind of rescue the unit was organized for, but they are rising to the occasion. Metro crashed in the right place. Heart warming puppy pictures in the link.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/plane-crash-fire-rescue-dog-adoptions
 
Piperonca said:
"The three adoptions are only the start. Lake Country Fire & Rescue’s assistant chief told FOX6 News that more members of the team will likely adopt dogs from the crash in the coming days." Not sure that was the kind of rescue the unit was organized for, but they are rising to the occasion. Metro crashed in the right place. Heart warming puppy pictures in the link.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/plane-crash-fire-rescue-dog-adoptions
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I guess they all are suffering from puppy love. Ok. I’m done…..:rolleyes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hey now, I'm sure it was held together by nothing but the finest FAA-certified PMA STC TSO duct tape and baling wire.

But since I can't possibly compete with you guys on the puns, I'll get back to actually discussing the accident.

They were on final, cleared to land. Ameriflight got it blocked on FlightAware and FlightRadar24, but it's still there on ADS-B Exchange: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?ica...3.0&showTrace=2022-11-15&timestamp=1668524223

Pilots reported that they were on autopilot and the plane started turning right, they cut off autopilot and it kept turning right in a "death dive" according to what they told the sheriff, in a report obtained by a local TV station: https://www.wisn.com/article/plane-took-death-dive-before-crash-pilot-tells-investigators/41999365

I listened to the LiveATC recordings of MKE approach and UES tower (both 11/15/22 1430Z).

On the approach recording, they check in at 17:25 with Alpha at 11,400 descending 11,000 on the GOPAC2. (This normally happens at DREWD intersection on the arrival.) They get cleared to 6,000 at 18:18 and they acknowledge something else with just their callsign about 20 seconds later but you don't hear the instruction because this LiveATC feed is on a scanner with three frequencies. They get a switch to 125.1 (also one of the three) at 19:57. at 21:10, they get a heading and 4,000. At 23:55 they get 010 heading and 3,000. 26:30 they get a 070 heading, maintain 3000 until established, cleared for the approach. 27:40, contact tower. At 30:45, you can hear Milwaukee Approach starting to try to contact them.

On the tower recording, at 27:00 they check in and are cleared to land. Tower is, unfortunately, not particularly intelligible on this feed. At about 27:40 tower gives them runway conditions and they acknowledge with "7141, appreciate it." There are some further transmissions from the tower and none from the airplane - I know that Tower issued them a low altitude alert but it's not very clear. Then you can hear Tower trying to get a hold of them.

On both recordings, the PM sounds very perky? Chipper? Definitely an upbeat tone. That never goes away... So whatever happened very fast.

FWIW, A Meridian that departed UES about 10 minutes earlier reported negative icing through 6,000 feet.

Looking at the ADS-B data, it appears that they intercepted the localizer and rather than following the glideslope down from 3000, they did a "dive and drive" down to the FAF altitude of 2300, arriving there at about 175 knots. Over the next 46 seconds until they reached the FAF (WAUCA), they slowed to 118. From what I could find online, approach speed is 115 and stall in the landing config is 92. 10 seconds after crossing the FAF they were at 101, and 10 seconds after that is about when they lost control, at 83 knots groundspeed. From that point, they dropped 825 feet in 12 seconds, which is >4000 fpm.

How they managed to find enough energy to arrest that descent, end up over a golf course, and have just the right combination of trees and swamp to slow them down with only minor injuries... Well, those guys had a big bag of luck, and I'm pretty sure they used all of it.

They did find 300 gallons of fuel at the crash site, so it wasn't fuel exhaustion. At first glance, it looks like they just screwed the pooch, Colgan 3407 style, and got really damn lucky. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation.
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Yeah right, “…can’t compete possibly compete with you guys on the puns…” and then end it with “…looks like they just screwed the pooch…”:rofl:
Anyway, comparing it to Colgan 3407, do you think they put out flaps and then pulled them back in? I recall that being part of the issue with Colgan.
 
luvflyin said:
Anyway, comparing it to Colgan 3407, do you think they put out flaps and then pulled them back in? I recall that being part of the issue with Colgan.
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Looking at the flight data on ADS-B Exchange, they very quickly went from about 150-160 KTS (GS) and 2100 ft to then <100 KTS GS and the altitude fell very quickly after that. We're talking under a minute. Not sure what the winds were doing or the specific speeds in that plane, but in the MU-2 I was typically crossing the numbers at anything from around 100-115 KIAS depending on the specific conditions. Seeing anything <100 KIAS was cause for immediate concern.

Another thing with the MU-2 is that it got slow slowly, and then it got slow really quickly. There was a tipping point (something around 140 as I recall, but it's been a while) where it took a long time at flight idle to get to that speed, and then once you got behind the power curve it dropped really quickly.

The Metro is not the same as the MU-2, of course, but it's still a "hot" wing from my understanding and I could imagine some similar behavior.

They were doing 170 before. So I could see a few things. For example, going from 170 to flight idle to slow down, and then not arresting the decrease in speed quickly enough and then getting behind the aircraft. This by itself isn't necessarily a bad idea and something I did fairly regularly in the MU-2 when in icing. Going fast means less ice accumulation (not to mention less exposure time). But you do have to pay attention. Could've also gotten an inaccurate or iced up pitot probe and not have accurate airspeed (although iced up pitot tubes always resulted in airspeed going to 0 for me).
 
Missed the water hazard by a whisker.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah right, “…can’t compete possibly compete with you guys on the puns…” and then end it with “…looks like they just screwed the pooch…”:rofl:
Anyway, comparing it to Colgan 3407, do you think they put out flaps and then pulled them back in? I recall that being part of the issue with Colgan.
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The problem with Colgan was the captain flapping his gums.
 
Just so all y'all know ... a family member had a procedure done today and while in the prep room awaiting to be taken in for the procedure I read these puns to them. Most were appreciated and a few were groaners. The procedure went very well but my reputation as a comedian has gone to the dogs! :D
 
Daleandee said:
Just so all y'all know ... a family member had a procedure done today and while in the prep room awaiting to be taken in for the procedure I read these puns to them. Most were appreciated and a few were groaners. The procedure went very well but my reputation as a comedian has gone to the dogs! :D
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So even the fleas were fleeing?
 
This is the perpetual motion machine. We have finally discovered it. NTSB might even put a lengthy but relevant section in the Metro accident report, something like a shaggy-dog story.
 
These puns have been going on so doggone long that this may end up being the longest pun run ever ... in dog years!

Guess it beats telling shaggy dog stories ...
 
There are a Papillon dog puns. We haven't even scratched the surface.
 
The pilot's wife had to Pinscher self to make sure she wasn't dreaming considering no one was hurt.
 
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The problem here is that they had two people in the cockpit, and weren’t using the dogs to their full potential. One person probably let the other one touch the controls instead of biting him when he tried.
 
Reading this thread has been a treat
 
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