Pizza for Clunkers
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ScottM
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iBazinga!
Camaro's are clunkers?
wsuffa
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ScottM
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iBazinga!
I kinda liked the older Mustangs. I am bigoted toward Camaros and Trans Ams. When I was in HS it seemed all the rich kids who were real butt wipes had a Camaro or Trans Am that mommy and daddy had bought them. I cannot recall one that made it to graduation without being wrecked. Based on what I see at one of the local HS now that type of car has changed to BMW.Mustangs, too...
IMHO, pretty much anything GM makes is a clunker.
wbarnhill
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Here it's Mustangs. There's actually a game based around it, kinda like punch buggy.
And rarely does a week go by without someone totaling theirs.
And what do mommy and daddy do? Buy a new one for their precious snowflake.
The only BMWs I see around here are ones that mom and dad might have used about 10 to 15 years ago.
Before I owned one, I figured it went like this:
"Here's the keys to your Mustang."
"Here's your license to be an *hole."
Never got my license but I was so old at the time I figured I was grandfathred in.
One reason I haven't sold mine is I figure it would be bought by or for a teenager and will end up wrapped around a tree or telephone pole in a week.
(Then my mechanic has a kid on staff who has a new one and they think it's a shame mine needs work. I'm a neglectful daddy.
I promised him I'd be back so he can get it in shape.)
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tonycondon
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my dad bought a 66 mustang when he was 15, this would've been in 1976 or so. He only wrecked it once i think, hit a car coming around a blind corner, and blew the motor. a few years back he finally finished up the restoration job on it. its a convertible, very fun to ride around in the summer with the top down.
Richard
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Ack...city life
So, Tony, I guess that technically makes you one of mommy and daddy's precious snowflakes. 
flyersfan31
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I'm from the Screaming Chicken/Ponch Poncharello era of Camaros/Firebirds. I've always been biased against them. Earlier models, say 67 Camaros? Hot. Love one. But since maybe 1970 they've been crap.
For me, a Corvette Stingray 1969-1972 is the ultimate. Great shape, to die for. I only have eyes for the Stingray.
wbarnhill
Final Approach
So, Tony, I guess that technically makes you one of mommy and daddy's precious snowflakes.
Re-read. His dad bought a Mustang, with his own money, when he was 15.
That I'm absolutely okay with. It's the teens who get a brand new car from their parents, drive irresponsibly and wreck it, and their parents buy them another new car. Consider me jealous that my parents made me buy my own cars and pay for my insurance.
tonycondon
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yea william got it right. my dad had been working at my grandpa's pizza place since he was like 9 years old. i also bought my first truck when I was 15, a Chevy S-10 4WD pickup. that thing rocked. Dad still hasn't let me drive the mustang...
sba55
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Yep. Unfortunately, as far as today's automotive technology is concerned, there isn't a single domestic car that isn't a clunker. Sad, but true 
pookies
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When I was in high school, there was this guy who's parents bought him a brand new sports car for getting his license. He killed himself that day!
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Bob Noel
Yep. Unfortunately, as far as today's automotive technology is concerned, there isn't a single domestic car that isn't a clunker. Sad, but true
so, in your opinion, what car isn't a clunker?
and why?
Anthony
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Anthony
I still think the U.S. automakers produce the best light trucks and SUV's. However, Toyota et al make some good trucks also and have caught up in that arena.
I haven't bought an American passenger car since 1981.
I haven't bought an American passenger car since 1981.
I still think the U.S. automakers produce the best light trucks and SUV's. However, Toyota et al make some good trucks also and have caught up in that arena.
I haven't bought an American passenger car since 1981.
Neither Toyota nor Nissan trucks hold up under severe use like Ford, Chevy or Dodge (talking pickups here, medium-duty cab/chassis trucks another story).
Anthony
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Anthony
That's why I sad the U.S. still make the BEST trucks. I do think the Japanese automakers are getting a lot closer and for the average Joe needing a truck they are pretty darn good. I know not a pickup, but I think the Toyota Forerunner is the best in its class of SUV. I saw lots of built up 4runners in the mountains of Colorado, doing harder trails than my Jeep.
ScottM
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iBazinga!
Not a HS story, at least for me, but I did have a scuba student who for graduation from HS his parents bought him a twin engine airplane. He was going to SIU for their aviation program and they thought getting twin time would help him a lot. There were right. Upon graduation he was the only class member to go straight into the right seat of a jet.
But still....
I do think the worst thing I have heard around here was the student who could not find a good parking place for his parental purchased BMW at HS. SO his parents bought a house adjacent to the school so he could park in the driveway.
But still....
I do think the worst thing I have heard around here was the student who could not find a good parking place for his parental purchased BMW at HS. SO his parents bought a house adjacent to the school so he could park in the driveway.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
Well, my dad bought me TWO sports cars when I was in high school. They weren't brand new - but he did help me tow them home so I could combine the better parts from each to make one car that would run...
Didn't kill myself in it either. Not even once.
astanley
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The Nissan/Fuso/Mistubishi heavy duty trucks (non-consumer, but analogous to F450/F550/F650) seem to do quite well...
Cheers,
-Andrew
Agreed, but not playing in the HD pickup arena (the trucks used for hauling goosenecks loaded with brick, etc.).
sba55
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I was not really being completely serious. The technical merits of a car are secondary to whether or not you like that car. If you like it, then that's really all there is to it. I'm not saying your car is "bad" - it's all a matter of preference, obviously.
I think the perception that domestic cars aren't that good comes from a few sources. For example, most people in Europe spend twice as much on their car as people do here. As a result, their cars, on average, are quite a bit better, and they're surprised just how basic they are here. It's not a fair comparison.
As far as the more expensive domestic cars go - those are sub-par from a technical point of view. Cheap plastics, old engine technology, live axle suspension (a technology that was originally introduced in the 1940s), cheap transmissions, vague steering, etc. I drove a Corvette a few months ago. That was probably the only domestic car I've driven that had good handling. The interior was still cheap and incredibly plasticky. I've also driven countless Cadillac STSs and CTSs as rental cars. Same thing there - cheap plastics, big engines that produce a tiny amount of horsepower, and poor handling. Recently, I've been driving a lot of rental Infinity M35s. At $40,000, they're about the same as a STS, but gone is the cheap interior, terrible handling, lack of acceleration....
I know a few people who work for GM. They know just too well that they can't, in the foreseeable future, compete with high-end foreign cars. So they're focused on other areas. They made one very clever move: build trucks and sell them to people who don't need trucks. Trucks are very cheap to make, yet people were willing to pay a premium for them. It worked as long as gas prices stayed low.....
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
gkainz
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Yeah, my dad helped me buy my first and second trucks and motorcycle - didn't "give" me a penny, but did give me a job!
Felix, while I agree that GM has needed to step it up on interior appointments, they're getting there, and the engine technology is quite strong; your perception that the engines produce a "tiny amount of horsepower" is simply wrong.
I cannot speak for Chrysler, but Ford and GM are producing V6 engines which have outstanding specific output, including (in particular) GM's 3.6 L direct-injection V6 engine which produces 304HP and 273 lb-ft without any form of boost. This is, by any measure, an exceptional stat.
The other thing which bears mention is this: Detroit tends to produce engines which (1) are better-suited to hot-weather operations, something which the Euro nameplates have only lately been able to tackle well, and (2) are much less maintenance-intensive (eg, no timing belts with mandatory $1,000+ replacements every 60k miles).
I love the German cars, have had two Audis (ran one up to 160k miles before selling, other gave its life that I might live when a Ford Bronco turned in front of me), a BMW (drove like a dream, but interior parts rattling and falling off like the leaves in autumn- sharp contrast with the bank-vault-like interiors of the Audi, and maintenance expense which shocked the conscience).
Fact is, though, every measurable survey of reliability and quality shows that the quantitative quality difference between American cars and most foreign nameplates (specifically including the various asian brands) is negligible.
Myself, I've driven a Cadillac Deville to about 180,000 miles, sold it to brother-in-law and he drove it another 60k or so; and I drove a Jeep Cherokee to over 150k and sold it running and looking like new. So much, of course, depends upon the quality of the dealer and service experience.
All that said, I am Jonesing for an Audi A5 - and the Cabrio hits dealers next month...
I cannot speak for Chrysler, but Ford and GM are producing V6 engines which have outstanding specific output, including (in particular) GM's 3.6 L direct-injection V6 engine which produces 304HP and 273 lb-ft without any form of boost. This is, by any measure, an exceptional stat.
The other thing which bears mention is this: Detroit tends to produce engines which (1) are better-suited to hot-weather operations, something which the Euro nameplates have only lately been able to tackle well, and (2) are much less maintenance-intensive (eg, no timing belts with mandatory $1,000+ replacements every 60k miles).
I love the German cars, have had two Audis (ran one up to 160k miles before selling, other gave its life that I might live when a Ford Bronco turned in front of me), a BMW (drove like a dream, but interior parts rattling and falling off like the leaves in autumn- sharp contrast with the bank-vault-like interiors of the Audi, and maintenance expense which shocked the conscience).
Fact is, though, every measurable survey of reliability and quality shows that the quantitative quality difference between American cars and most foreign nameplates (specifically including the various asian brands) is negligible.
Myself, I've driven a Cadillac Deville to about 180,000 miles, sold it to brother-in-law and he drove it another 60k or so; and I drove a Jeep Cherokee to over 150k and sold it running and looking like new. So much, of course, depends upon the quality of the dealer and service experience.
All that said, I am Jonesing for an Audi A5 - and the Cabrio hits dealers next month...
tonycondon
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sba55
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Spike, I admit that that's a decent engine. But, it's about 6 years too late and it's not used on most of their cars. 6 years is a LONG time, and that's just for that particular engine. They still make plenty 4-5L V8s that barely make 300hp. That's just a waste of fuel....
I don't think that's true. Of course, simpler engines are generally more reliable. But that said, I'd be more than happy to spend $1,000 every 60,000 miles if I get an engine with lots of torque and good fuel consumption in return.
Huh? I'm sorry, that is so wrong I don't really know how to explain it. I'm not a car expert, but I know quite a few. The quality is not even remotely comparable. But that said, of course overall quality matters little if one only cares about a subset. If you look at the whole picture - live axle suspensions, transmissions from the early 90s, little torque, cheap plastics - there's just no comparison. For highway driving, of course, a domestic car will do just fine.
You know, I think cars really are just like any other luxury good. There are incredible differences, but they might not be relevant if you don't care about them. I do appreciate the fact that there are no cheap plastics in my car, unlike every other US car I've driven, including corvettes and escalade. I do appreciate the fact that my electronics don't die after 2 years like in my friend's Taurus. And I do appreciate the excellent suspension and power response, which blows every US sedan out of the water. But it really depends on what you're looking for.
-Felix
bullwinkle
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Under gov't rules a new Ferrari is a "clunker" because it gets less than 20mpg...
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Bob Noel
Well, I like my Mercury Mariner hybrid. My favorite car was my 1993 Ford Explorer Sport. Neither would qualify as clunkers
steingar
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You mention cheap plastics two or three times. What are they supposed to use? Can you tell the difference with expensive plastics?
I agree with everything vis a vis suspension and engine technology. Americans seem to like things with big engines and lots of punch. I had to go to the foreign market to get something with crisp handling.
You know many Explorers went to the crusher in the last few weeks?
Besides, you know perfectly well it is well known they roll over spontaneusly with no warning. Even when parked.
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Bob Noel
One way to explain how much I liked my '93 Explorer: Whenever I thought about what I would do if I won the lottery, I didn't dream about replacing the Explorer. There wasn't a single car out there that I would have wanted instead of my Explorer.
Wow. I was looking at the Lincoln version (The Aviator?) for a stop gap and decided I'd rather get a little better gas mileage. I thought they were troubled and unexictring, too. I'll have to check one out.
I feel the same way about my Cherokee. I bought just a notch too much plane so I have hard time imagining wanting something more.