PIPER Wing Spar AD - Final Ruling

What is 12-13K among friends? :)
 
It's not the end of the world, unless you have a high time flight school type beat to s*** plane listed, your good to go. For those who bought a Arrow from a flight school or other aircraft listed with high time 100hr inspections, well you are in for a wild ride.
 
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brien23 said:
It's not the end of the world, unless you have a high time flight school type beat to s*** plane listed your good to go. For those who bought a Arrow from a flight school or other aircraft listed with high time 100hr inspections well you are in for a wild ride.
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And honestly, if you have one of those birds and you aren't a little concerned.... well that's why faa has to make ad's.....

My Lance is included. It has about 5600 hours. The factored service hours are under 1500, and my plane started its life in a 135 operation. I won't live long enough to be required to do the inspection, even if I won the lottery and started flying 500 hours a year.
 
DFH65 said:
What is 12-13K among friends? :)
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Good luck getting the wing spar replaced for only $12-13K. Wish I could get my plane serviced at the FAA's estimated labor rates!

These estimates might work IF an owner found a shop already seasoned with this procedure and in a low labor rate location.
 
for those who are affected, i guess you dont have to rush to get it done though some people will definitely rush and create long lines

(i) Eddy Current Inspect
Within the compliance time specified in either paragraph (i)(1) or (2) of this AD, as applicable, eddy current inspect the inner surface of the two lower outboard bolt holes on the lower main wing spar cap for cracks. If the wing is installed, use steps 1 through 3 or, if the wing is not installed, use
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step 3 in the Instructions of Piper Aircraft, Inc. Service Bulletin No. 1345, dated March 27, 2020 (Piper SB No. 1345). Although Piper SB No. 1345 specifies NAS 410 Level II or Level III certification to perform the inspection, this AD allows Level II or Level III qualification standards for inspection personnel using any inspector criteria approved by the FAA.
Note 2 to the introductory text of paragraph (i): Advisory Circular 65-31B contains FAA-approved Level II and Level III qualification standards criteria for inspection personnel doing nondestructive test (NDT) inspections.
(1) Within 100 hours TIS after complying with paragraph (h) of this AD or within 100 hours TIS after a main wing spar accumulates 5,000 factored service hours, whichever occurs later; or
(2) For airplanes with an unknown number of factored service hours on a main wing spar, within the next 100 hours TIS after the effective date of this AD or within 60 days after the effective date of this AD, whichever occurs later.
 
If you have a plane that is affected by this AD with over the 5,000 hr + factor just how much is it worth if you try to sell it now that people know the AD is out. If you list it for sale without knowing if the wing is good or bad and just want out how much of a hit would you take or if you feel lucky what kind of deal should you expect to get .
 
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So I sat down with a spreadsheet I made a month or so ago in anticipation of the final rule coming out. It has total time reported at each annual and 100hr. inspection. Turns out I have 18 100hr inspections that count. I plugged in the formula, and I have 1812 Factored Service Hours. Assuming my airplane doesn't have to have any more 100 hour inspections, it will be due for eddy current inspection at 55,199.4 hours.

I'm actually interested to see how many problems, if any, this AD uncovers. Reading the discussion, this is referred to as an interim AD, and they expect to change it based upon the findings. There is the possibility of a life limit mentioned. Hopefully the problem is found to be limited in scope, but if not I'd rather know about it. I can't imagine the terror of a wing falling off and knowing that there is absolutely nothing you can do but wait for the end.
 
brien23 said:
If you have a plane that is affected by this AD with over the 5,000 hr + factor just how much is it worth if you try to sell it now that people know the AD is out. If you list it for sale without knowing if the wing is good or bad and just want out how much of a hit would you take.
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hrs in service is one factor, if one or both wings were replaced without a factory new one, that is another factor to consider. FYI, i spoke to a shop, and they quoted me $650 for their labor + the eddy current inspection, so its not much in grand scheme of things, unless the inspection reveals a crack. if it does, i think its in the best interest of the pilot to fix it anyway, AD or not. now that the AD is out, i suspect a lot of potential buyers would ask that you perform the inspection even if the AD is not applicable under the Piper SB
 
only 15 mentions of 100 hour inspections for our PA28R200... most of those are just annuals and not related to 91.409(b). Even if I include all the 100 hr inspections we are only at 1500 factored hours.

Prayers for the old flight school airplanes....
 
Jim K said:
I'm actually interested to see how many problems, if any, this AD uncovers. Reading the discussion, this is referred to as an interim AD, and they expect to change it based upon the findings. There is the possibility of a life limit mentioned. Hopefully the problem is found to be limited in scope, but if not I'd rather know about it. I can't imagine the terror of a wing falling off and knowing that there is absolutely nothing you can do but wait for the end.
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I can tell you of one already. This airplane has had a checkered past, but was never operated by a flight school or had 100 hour inspections that would trigger the inspection. The current owner wanted to sell the airplane so it is/was under contract and the purchaser requested that the inspection be performed, knowing that this would become an AD. Well, it turned up problems. The problem was submitted to Piper for review, hoping for an AMOC but they came back with "replace the spar." So here it sits, no resolution in sight yet. I ferried the airplane for the ECI back in September, so we're 3-4 months in now and no end in sight.
 
Deelee said:
Prayers for the old flight school airplanes....
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The Archer I did all my ratings in has 10,000 hours, 9500 in the service of the 141 school. The club also has a Warrior with around 15,000 that has made dozens if not hundreds of pilots in its life. Purchased new by the club, has never had a 100 hour inspection, so only 880ish FSH. I can tell you which one I feel safer in....

I find it odd that the Dakotas aren't on the list. Do they have a heavier spar?

mondtster said:
I can tell you of one already. This airplane has had a checkered past, but was never operated by a flight school or had 100 hour inspections that would trigger the inspection. The current owner wanted to sell the airplane so it is/was under contract and the purchaser requested that the inspection be performed, knowing that this would become an AD. Well, it turned up problems. The problem was submitted to Piper for review, hoping for an AMOC but they came back with "replace the spar." So here it sits, no resolution in sight yet. I ferried the airplane for the ECI back in September, so we're 3-4 months in now and no end in sight.
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That sucks. I'm guessing serviceable wings are going to be in short supply.
 
When I bought my archer back in Feb. 2020, one of the conditions of the sale was that the seller have the eddy current inspection done. Looks like that paid off!
 
I don’t speak legalize very well but I know how to read numbers. I do not see a PA-28-140 listed. Does this mean my 1969 PA-28-140B is not part of this AD?
 
I just saw the same thing. Doesn’t look like the list is chopped off.
 
RonP said:
I don’t speak legalize very well but I know how to read numbers. I do not see a PA-28-140 listed. Does this mean my 1969 PA-28-140B is not part of this AD?
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TrueCourse said:
I just saw the same thing. Doesn’t look like the list is chopped off.
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The way I read it, none of the fixed-gear, Hershey-bar-wing PA-28s -- other than the PA-28-235 -- are affected.

If so, that means the Cherokee 140, the old Cherokee 150 and 160, and the Hershey-bar Cherokee 180, up through the 1975 Cherokee Archer (not Archer II) are home free. All Arrows (except those individual serial numbers listed) are on the hook, which makes it all the more curious why the PA-28-236 Dakota and PA-28-201T Turbo Dakota are not listed.
 
Jim K said:
That sucks. I'm guessing serviceable wings are going to be in short supply.
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Why, because of a SGOTI's n=1 anecdote? The presumption these things are failing inspection en masse is facts not in evidence.
 
Time to buy some airframecomponents.com stock!
 
I have to wonder. I remember an old Arrow II or III down in San Antonio that had something like 20K hours with a check hauling service. "Patches" as she was known. Bet that plane is STILL good.
 
Anybody got ERAU's accounts payable mailing address handy? Trying to figure out where to send out the bill if-and-when I decide to sell the arrow and the buyer wants the inspection done. :D
 
What’s funny is, even if someone (normal GA owner) is affected they can defer the AD for 100 TIS, that’s what 1700 hrs of I am reading the calculations correctly?
 
WannFly said:
What’s funny is, even if someone (normal GA owner) is affected they can defer the AD for 100 TIS, that’s what 1700 hrs of I am reading the calculations correctly?
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No, TIS is actual flight time, not factor time. The 100 is for the applicability of conducting the compliance actions as deleniated by the AD.
 
f) Compliance Comply with this AD within the compliance times specified, unless already done. If your aircraft does go over the 5,000 hr + factor and you do the inspection and it is good does this terminate the AD or do you have to do it again and at what time?
 
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Pilawt said:
The way I read it, none of the fixed-gear, Hershey-bar-wing PA-28s -- other than the PA-28-235 -- are affected.

If so, that means the Cherokee 140, the old Cherokee 150 and 160, and the Hershey-bar Cherokee 180, up through the 1975 Cherokee Archer (not Archer II) are home free. All Arrows (except those individual serial numbers listed) are on the hook, which makes it all the more curious why the PA-28-236 Dakota and PA-28-201T Turbo Dakota are not listed.
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I read it the same way. While I am very happy my '67 PA28-140 is not on the list, it isn't clear to me why the Hershey bar wings were removed from the affected list of aircraft. The only reference I could find was a bit vague and referred to the FAA adopting a more focused risk criteria using load data provided by Piper. The reference wording seems to indicate that "those aircraft with calculated wing loads greater than or equal to 95 percent of baseline are considered at risk and are included in the new effectivity" - this is from the Supplemental Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (June 3, 2020). Not exactly sure what that means. Similar language is in the final AD. Since I will be complying with the new AD 2020-24-05 (wing spar corrosion) soon, we will be taking a closer look at the spar attach points when we remove the fuel tanks (need to replace the vent/fuel lines).
 
brien23 said:
f) Compliance Comply with this AD within the compliance times specified, unless already done. If your aircraft does go over the 5,000 hr + factor and you do the inspection and it is good does this terminate the AD or do you have to do it again and at what time?
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As currently written, if the eddy current applies, it's a one time thing.

But you know this spam can thing is a revolving door of nickle-n-dime and moral hazards. Tomorrow it'll be another wild goose chase over whoever else crapped their pants and we get told to wear diapers. It shouldn't be too much of a surprise when these things become recurring.

Fwiw, if this thing was to become recurring, that's exit stage for me.
 
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/8iwjsgk174velh3/00.Aircraft.Log.Inspections.100.%26.Annuals.Template.xlsx?dl=1

A private pilot can do the logbook inspection and the calculation.

Above link is to a spreadsheet calculating Factored Service Hours and listing all 100 Hour and Annual inspections in your logbook(s). There are example entries included. Certain cells are protected, but there is no password.

My Warrior II has 10 applicable inspections. Given the current Time in Service, if no more applicable inspections are performed, the airframe will need 69,000 hours before it hits 5000 Factored Service Hours.
 
Am I correct in assuming service hours are based on tach time not hobbs?
 
cowman said:
Am I correct in assuming service hours are based on tach time not hobbs?
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"Part 1, § 1.1, Definitions, defines time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, as that time from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches down at the next point of landing."

Tach time is probably the best proxy we have.
 
Jim K said:
"Part 1, § 1.1, Definitions, defines time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, as that time from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches down at the next point of landing."

Tach time is probably the best proxy we have.
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That’s a pretty squirrely definition for typical GA aircraft that don’t log things that way but yeah.

I just happen to have a tach time under 5000 and a hobbs time over 5000. After I do the factored hours math it’s going to be under anyway I’m sure but clarity on these things sure would be nice.
 
Just a point of reference. The accident aircraft, N104ER, was 10 years old, had 7,600 hours and some 33,000 landings as a training aircraft at ERAU. Inspection of other aircraft that found cracks started at about 2,700 hours and some 8,800 landings.
 
Jim K said:
And honestly, if you have one of those birds and you aren't a little concerned.... well that's why faa has to make ad's.....

My Lance is included. It has about 5600 hours. The factored service hours are under 1500, and my plane started its life in a 135 operation. I won't live long enough to be required to do the inspection, even if I won the lottery and started flying 500 hours a year.
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If you were that powerball winner you'd be selling that Lance(to me on the cheap...cuz it's good karma) and buying a tbm or m600
 
Even if your not part of the AD. Wiggle the wings and stabilator fore and aft every pre flight.

 
Gary said:
I read it the same way. While I am very happy my '67 PA28-140 is not on the list, it isn't clear to me why the Hershey bar wings were removed from the affected list of aircraft. The only reference I could find was a bit vague and referred to the FAA adopting a more focused risk criteria using load data provided by Piper. The reference wording seems to indicate that "those aircraft with calculated wing loads greater than or equal to 95 percent of baseline are considered at risk and are included in the new effectivity" - this is from the Supplemental Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (June 3, 2020). Not exactly sure what that means. Similar language is in the final AD. Since I will be complying with the new AD 2020-24-05 (wing spar corrosion) soon, we will be taking a closer look at the spar attach points when we remove the fuel tanks (need to replace the vent/fuel lines).
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Ive often wondered why the semi tapered wing gets more attention. Were they used more as trainers than the hershey's? Is it because they're heavier? Is there an aero dynamic reason?
 
There are a lot of aeronautical engineering minded members on PoA, of which I’m not one, but my guess is that since the different wings have slightly different stall characteristics, it’s possible this impacts load characteristics over time. Supposedly the inboard parts of the wing are identical in design.
 
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