Piper Cub

mandm

mandm

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Michael
Just love the look of a Piper Cub. Anyone have one, any comments or suggestions, things to know, etc.
 
Have you flown one (a J3)? I think they are a bit narrow unless you have very thin/small shoes. You might look at a Legend Cub which I think is a better plane.

Both are fun to fly with the windows and/or doors open.
 
DesertNomad said:
Have you flown one (a J3)? I think they are a bit narrow unless you have very thin/small shoes. You might look at a Legend Cub which I think is a better plane.

Both are fun to fly with the windows and/or doors open.
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I’ve never been in a Cub or tailwheel airplane, but have been thinking about a second plane. I do not want to have to hand prop the plane either. Have been thinking about a Cessna 150 aerobat (guessing these are for acrobatics?), Cessna 120/140, Piper Cub. Also like the bi-planes and planes with a rotary engine, but I do not have a high budget (30-50k) for this so haven’t considered planes like the Extra. Also need to make sure it can fit in the hangar which I’m not sure of how to play Tetris with it.

I think the open windows/doors would be cool but being able to close them and have heat is also important due to location. I guess I need to find me one of those cool pilot hat and face goggles.
 
mandm said:
I’ve never been in a Cub or tailwheel airplane, but have been thinking about a second plane. I do not want to have to hand prop the plane either. Have been thinking about a Cessna 150 aerobat (guessing these are for acrobatics?), Cessna 120/140, Piper Cub. Also like the bi-planes and planes with a rotary engine, but I do not have a high budget (30-50k) for this so haven’t considered planes like the Extra.
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Aerobatic is a trike, unless it’s been converted.
 
Cub? Yes. Piper? No. Not this one, anyway.

Looking for a Cub under $50K won’t provide many choices. Cheap Cubs quickly become expensive projects.

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Hmmm... don’t have one but flown a few. A regular Cub is fine well over 6’ and 275. I’m 5’ 10” and 180, gave a tailwheel endorsement to a guy that sized, c90 but no electrical. Wasn’t an issue.

Rather expensive compared to Chiefs, 120/140s, good many Champs, Luscombes, Stinson 10s, etc. Any of them can be fitted with electrical and/or a starter, but hand propping small continentals isn’t a big deal, AT ALL. Really. And the simplicity can’t be beat.

Experimental biplanes are generally give aways, but might be a problem storage wise for you. Otherwise meet all your criteria, and then some.
 
mandm said:
I’ve never been in a Cub or tailwheel airplane, but have been thinking about a second plane. I do not want to have to hand prop the plane either. Have been thinking about a Cessna 150 aerobat (guessing these are for acrobatics?), Cessna 120/140, Piper Cub. Also like the bi-planes and planes with a rotary engine, but I do not have a high budget (30-50k) for this so haven’t considered planes like the Extra. Also need to make sure it can fit in the hangar which I’m not sure of how to play Tetris with it.

I think the open windows/doors would be cool but being able to close them and have heat is also important due to location. I guess I need to find me one of those cool pilot hat and face goggles.
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:) Cubs are great aircraft, but they only have theoretical heat, not actual heat. Speaking of the originals, and don't know how the copies are in that area. I also wouldn't put a starter on an original cub, because you have to add an electrical system, and your already small weight capability will be even smaller.

I'd suggest getting some tailwheel time first, and then figure out what you want to do. They are a LOT of fun.
 
Almost all of the Cub’s competitors are better in one way or another (faster, better glide, less fabric), but you’ll pay close to twice for an equivalent Cub…

Taylorcraft, Luscombe, Champ, Chief, look at all of those, too.
 
Cubs and the like are perfect for sunset cruises and Saturday afternoon picnics. At about 70mph in still air, you just can’t use them to go anywhere. Because of all of that, they’re really good for partnerships and clubs. You sign it out for a picnic, someone else signs it out for a sunset cruise.

I was in a J-3 arrangement with 7 people. There was never a scheduling problem.
 
mandm said:
I do not have a high budget
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Then may wish to consider a Champ rather than pay the designer label price for a Cub.

Lots of E-AB options as well. A Wittman Tailwind has twice the cool factor as a Cub...
 
DesertNomad said:
Have you flown one (a J3)? I think they are a bit narrow unless you have very thin/small shoes. You might look at a Legend Cub which I think is a better plane.

Both are fun to fly with the windows and/or doors open.
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I have a J-3 and I love it because it is old and has history.... A Legend is just a fake remake.
That's like buying a 1963 split window Corvette vs buying a fake Corvette kit car. I like old and authentic. Just my opinion. cub 1.png
 
I also like the J-3 because you fly it solo from the rear. I like being in the back when I fly a tandem plane. I would feel dumb being in the front seat. I guess because I have time in about 20 different biplanes and you fly them all from the rear seat.
 
I have trained quite a few pilot in Champs and a few in Cubs. I tell people the Champ was built to compete with the Cub and as a result they tried to fix a lot of the short comings of the Cub. The Champ as a lot wider cabin, way better visibility, is slightly faster. You sit in the front with the instruments. The down sides are it requires a slightly longer runway, doesn’t have the fold down door that you can leave open in flight. I never liked it open in the back seat of a cub anyway, I didn’t like the blast of air in my face. Front seat was fine. Oh, and it is a Cub.

I agree the more stock any of these era planes the better, otherwise they quickly become one person airplanes due to limited useful load.

Hand propping is just a skill, done properly it is extremely safe and with impulse coupled mags very easy. You can stand behind the propeller, hold the strut or door post in one hand and fling/pull the prop with the other. If it takes more than 3 pulls beyond the 6 blades to prime it, you are probably not doing it right or the engine needs work., Usually they start on the 1st pull. (Might take a bit of practice to figure out what your engine likes)

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
The Cub is one of the all time great airplanes, but as others have said almost any of its contemporaries are better planes. Remember it was designed in the 1930s to carry two 1930s size individuals with 37HP.

Every time I fly a Cub I'm appalled by the heavy controls, sluggish handling, and how sore I am when I climb back out. But cruising one at 500' with the door open on a warm summer evening followed by a touchdown on a good turf runway is a magical thing. And hand propping, starting it with your own muscle power, is part of that magic.
 
Dana said:
The Cub is one of the all time great airplanes, but as others have said almost any of its contemporaries are better planes. Remember it was designed in the 1930s to carry two 1930s size individuals with 37HP.

Every time I fly a Cub I'm appalled by the heavy controls, sluggish handling, and how sore I am when I climb back out. But cruising one at 500' with the door open on a warm summer evening followed by a touchdown on a good turf runway is a magical thing. And hand propping, starting it with your own muscle power, is part of that magic.
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Same with the Luscombe. 25 mph faster, pretty good handling, sportier than the Champ or the Taylorcraft...
 
mandm said:
I do not want to have to hand prop the plane either.
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Cubs are the easiest and safest planes to hand prop after you learn the very basics. It's just part of the fun of flying these things. Starter and battery is just unnecessary weight.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
@mandm let's partner in a 7AC champ. You just need to move your hangar to C81 or somewhere in the middle.
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Before you jump into a partnership, make sure to have the discussions about things like what you’ll do if one of you wants to convert to a glass panel with WAAS capability and the other one doesn’t. ;)
 
No matter how hard you try, it seems a Cub just can't do anything to scare you.
I went from first lesson to Private Pilot in J-3's when I was in High School. My instructor was old school. I got fwd slips and stalls on the second flight, spins on the 4th. Of course, spins were not required, but I said that my CFI was old school.
I could not get clear of Cubs soon enough. 75 MPH? Gotta be kidding. I later bought a Champ because it was 8 MPH faster. Liked it more than the Cub. I rebuilt a Luscombe years later in my turbine era. Loved that airplane. 105 MPH on 65 HP.
I had a CAA student permit when I started in Cubs. Then the CAA went away and the FAA was created. I wanted a PPL. FAA gave less of a hoot how good a stick you were. They wanted to see: 1. Fly with reference to instruments. 2. Navigate by radio nav aids. 3. Talk on a radio.
I was on leave from the USMC and was talking a bunch on radios. One down. Clyde, my CFI showed me the latest J-3 Cub. He had upgraded the A-65 to an A-75, hung a Beech R-003 propeller on the nose. More power because the panel was upgraded with a T&B. A venturi tube installed on the lift strut. A battery installed on the floor ahead of the front stick. An antique com was installed in the baggage area along with a nav receiver. Then I went under the hood. Got my first 15 hrs of inst time in a Cub. Two down.
The practical was OK and I passed. After the usual stalls, TOs and landings, I was asked to nav by radio back to the airport, which I did. Three down. Not going to mention the nav aid but can you spell Dit-Dah and Dah-Dit?
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
PWK could work too, but likely way pricier than UGN (if there are hangers available). Likely less friendly.

I read here from @Racerx that C81 is for sale.
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If you’re worried about prices… you’ll need to find an extra partner… *cough* *cough*
(PWK is closer to me)
 
Decent condition mostly stock Supercubs are selling for $125K easily. Top end experimentals are pushing through $400K. Wait til you see the insurance rates!
 
There was a hangar available at c81 last fall. Didn't stop in the fbo this afternoon. I'll check tomorrow. And if you need a lift built, I know a guy... I would need to get a ride at least once though.
 
Are Cubs certificated, light sport or home built? Because I’ve seen some that say light sport, many people say rebuilt, so just wondering what their status is.
 
mandm said:
Are Cubs certificated, light sport or home built? Because I’ve seen some that say light sport, many people say rebuilt, so just wondering what their status is.
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Original Cubs are certificated, and can be flown under light sport rules because they meet the requirements of aircraft that a sport pilot may fly because of the way the reg is written. There are probably Cubs out there that DO NOT meet this reg, for instance, if they've ever specifically had a Beech Roby prop installed. Old logbooks can become very important.
 
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mandm said:
Are Cubs certificated, light sport or home built? Because I’ve seen some that say light sport, many people say rebuilt, so just wondering what their status is.
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Yes.

As Ryan said, original Cubs are certificated with a standard airworthiness certificate, but can be flown by a Sport Pilot because they meet the LSA requirements.

Some of the later production Cubs (Legend, etc.) may be certificated as SLSA or they may have standard airworthiness certificates, I don't know.

There are also homebuilt Cubs, certificated as Experimental-Amateur Built. Wag Aero was the first with their Cub clone kit called the "Cuby" until Piper made them change the name.

And there are Experimental-Exhibition Cubs, where somebody has modified a standard Cub beyond the limits of the original type certificate.
 
SOME certificated Cubs can be flown Light Sport. That’s limited to J-3s and PA-11s. No PA-12s, -14s, or -18 Supercubs qualify. Cubcrafters Sport Cubs and the American Legend AL-3 and AL-11 may qualify if built to comply with regs. FX Cubs and the MOAC are way out of that range. And to dispel what a lot of guys believe? Experimental does not mean inexpensive. The lion’s share of the high end Cub market is dominated by experimental Cubs.
 
Any thoughts on the Pitt’s S1C?
 
That’s a far stretch from a Cub! Pulling Gs upside down isn’t my cup of tea, but I know a couple of guys who love it. One has a Pitts. One has a One Design. I think both would rather have an Extra!
 
Stewartb said:
That’s a far stretch from a Cub! Pulling Gs upside down isn’t my cup of tea, but I know a couple of guys who love it. One has a Pitts. One has a One Design. I think both would rather have an Extra!
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I also like the look of the bi-plane and seems Pitt’s will have extra power. It might fit in the hangar too since they are super small. Just casually looking at the moment :)
 
mandm said:
I also like the look of the bi-plane and seems Pitt’s will have extra power. It might fit in the hangar too since they are super small. Just casually looking at the moment :)
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A Pitts will have whatever power the builder put in it. The original S1C was 85HP, but they've been built with well north of 200HP.
 
mandm said:
I’ve never been in a Cub or tailwheel airplane, but have been thinking about a second plane. I do not want to have to hand prop the plane either. Have been thinking about a Cessna 150 aerobat (guessing these are for acrobatics?), Cessna 120/140, Piper Cub. Also like the bi-planes and planes with a rotary engine, but I do not have a high budget (30-50k) for this so haven’t considered planes like the Extra. Also need to make sure it can fit in the hangar which I’m not sure of how to play Tetris with it.

I think the open windows/doors would be cool but being able to close them and have heat is also important due to location. I guess I need to find me one of those cool pilot hat and face goggles.
Click to expand...

hard to go wrong with the Cessna 120/140, now I’m biased beyond belief for full disclosure… but mines been a riot. I’ve flown it all over the country, into the back country and camped at Johnson creek Idaho, picked up skis for her for $800 and that’s a blast! Though a lot of work… very few ADs, I only have one recurring and it’s so simple if I crack the 100hr mark between annuals my IA does it without a bill, he has to visually check a wing wire… she does 100mph on 5gph.. they are far sexier than a 150 imho, faster than a cub, all aluminum… avoid a metal wing if it’s not an A model… but I think they are just a tremendous bang for the buck…tho not real acrobatic…
 
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Lachlan said:
It must have been way over gross, but those big wings sure do produce a lot of lift! ;)
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A friend of mine once had a J3 Cub (actually several) , and a set of extra J3 wings. He did this well before my time, But he told me about mounting the extra set of cub wings on the J3 (they were using J-3's for crop dusting) to make a bi-plane out of it. I think they just wanted to try it and were thinking that they might be able to carry more load with it. Turns out the extra set of wings were so draggy it would barely get off the ground. They quickly removed them and went back to the normal (for a J-3 Cropduster) configuration.

Brian
 
:) That sounds like a fun bunch of people to hang out with. "What are you doing this weekend? Oh, yeah, we're going to put some extra wings on the plane."
 
brcase said:
A friend of mine once had a J3 Cub (actually several) , and a set of extra J3 wings. He did this well before my time, But he told me about mounting the extra set of cub wings on the J3 (they were using J-3's for crop dusting) to make a bi-plane out of it. I think they just wanted to try it and were thinking that they might be able to carry more load with it. Turns out the extra set of wings were so draggy it would barely get off the ground. They quickly removed them and went back to the normal (for a J-3 Cropduster) configuration.

Brian
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https://saflyer.com/piper-cub-biplane/amp/


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