Piper Cherokee 140 With High Engine Time. Worth The Buy?

$15,000 plane + $25,000 overhaul = $40,000 Cherokee. Yikes. With an old panel? Yikes again.
If you're only planning to fly 50-100 hours a year you could rent and budget for that and fly without any unexpected expenses. Once you figure in initial cost of the airplane, insurance, tie down/hangar, repairs, tires, annuals etc... You see where I'm going. Then again, if you just have to have your own plane and can justify all the costs involved, then by all means take the gamble! Just be prepared for the worst case scenario and allow a little room for Murphy's Law.
 
You guys keep throwing out these top dollar overhaul cost when there are other options.

1. Do a field overhaul, will probably cost 10-12k provided nothing is so far out of spec it needs replacing.
2. Usually the rotating assembly doesn't wear out by the first overhaul, you can continue to put cylinders on it and be fine.
I would be more concerned about dated avionics as that is the most difficult and potentially expensive upgrade, that and a good paint job.
 
Still, even if you can do a field overhaul on it, you're into a plane for $27,000, which is about what you'd pay for one with a mid time engine.

I just checked out the planes for sale on trade a plane and the market looks pretty abysmal. Most have their orginal (or very old) radios, and those that were upgraded are obsolete now anyway.

@easik, if the budget's going to allow a purchase now and then some big investments over time, maybe that $15k Cherokee isn't such a bad deal after all. The cheapest one on TAP is listed for $19k and it has even more time.
 
The Cherokee is a great starter plane, but these things can kill you. Make sure you can afford to maintain it right. A $25K plane is going to be just as expensive to maintain as a $100K plane (maybe more so, depending on what the previous owner deferred). That said, I think they are one of the best bargains out there for someone who wants a (relatively) inexpensive plane that easily hauls two people plus baggage. I had a lot of fun with mine. You could look at the maintenance and add it to the price of the plane, but that doesn't make sense to me (see above). They just cost money to operate. I bought my plane for $25K and I sold it for $25K. Somewhere in between, I spent a bunch of money keeping safe and running.
 
I see no issue in going for it... like others said, you need to be ready to replace that engine at anytime. But that is true with any engine regardless of time. Its just your odds are better with a lower time engine.

The Cherokee 140 I bought in April had ~3600 TT and ~1580 SMOH in 1972. FAA inspector owned with 35K put into it (incl/ADS-B) over the (4) years he owned it. It had a Top O/H ~250 hours ago, at that time, the cam was fine. Since I bought her, have put about 64 hours on it burning 1qt oil every 16 hours. Compressions are 74 or higher, oil pressure and temps all good. No carbon blow by or metal in the oil filter. VREF was 19.5K . I paid 22K. VREF does not take into account the level of maintenance an owner provides.
 
easik said:
Been looking at an entry level aircraft to buy. I recently saw a Cherokee 140 in pretty good shape but the engine time is about 1900 hours. I wanted an aircraft with at least 300-400 hours left on the engine before overhaul. My mission is 50-100 hour a year. But the discounted price on this Cherokee is attractive mainly due to the high engine time.

What's your take? do I pay for that cost now or pay later :D
Also I'm curious; all Piper Cherokee 140 owner/operator, how long have you flown your engine? until 2000 hours TBO or past it?

thanks.
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FWIW, I bought my old Cherokee 140 with ~1800 SCMOH and flew it for 12 years putting another 1000+ hours on it. In that time I replaced one cylinder and a muffler (along with the usual mag inspections and replacing worn spark plugs). I flew it about once a week and changed oil at 25 hour intervals. Preheated when starting cold and mostly flew at best economy on mostly autogas (or 100LL + TCP). Compressions were still in the mid 70's before I donated it. It was a simple and reliable airplane that took me to a lot of places.
 
My Cherokee 140/160 had 5500 ttaf and 325 smoh.

I would have been better off paying for a 50k airplane than buying what I did.

Ymmv

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 
ircphoenix said:
My Cherokee 140/160 had 5500 ttaf and 325 smoh.

I would have been better off paying for a 50k airplane than buying what I did.

Ymmv

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
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Wow okay, do share more. what happened with your purchase?
 
I bought a Cherokee 140/160 in '15. 6600TT and 490 SMOH. I've put 550 hrs on it, got my PPL/Instrument/CPL in it and have done nothing but change oil
 
Does anyone have any better suggestions for an airplane for @easik ? Just casually poking around Trade a Plane and Barnstormers gives me an idea that the pickings are slim these days. When GA activity was declining for all those years and the fleet was slowly shrinking, it wasn't a problem, but now with activity picking up a bit worldwide, the shelves for good used 150 and 180 hp singles are getting a little bare. I know the word to the wise is to find someone who's interested in selling by word of mouth, but if he's not plugged into that community, how is he going to find one? Let's face it, lots of the smaller airports are locked up as tight as a drum much of the time, and even if you get in all you're going to see are locked hangars and some less loved aircraft tied down outside.

I'm thinking an inexpensive Cherokee with a high time engine might be one of his better options.
 
You really can't go wrong with a Cherokee for a trainer. They are cheap, comfortable, and reliable. The early models are not 4 place airplanes but they will make great 2 place planes with plenty of luggage and full fuel. They have a reliable well supported engine unlike the similarly priced 172. Muskateer is another cheap choice with a lot more room but they will burn a lot more fuel. If you get into the 30k range it opens up the Grumman Traveler which would be about perfect. 4 useable seats (size wise), reliable well supported engine, respectable cruise speed, about as simple and low maintenance as it gets, and you get the sliding canopy for when you need to hurl as you get accustomed to flight :)
 
When I was looking at similar airplanes, I was looking a Cessnas. I flew Cherokees a lot in training and irrationally hated them. They seem like reliable, well understood airplanes that are easy to work on, but ugh. The one-door configuration bugged me the most. Thanks to the life's ironies, I'm flying a Mooney now, because I'm poor and it's the fastest option that I could afford. I remember that when I was in the market, decent 152s had higher asking prices than Cherokees, despite the large difference in power.
 
For certified, I'd pick an earlier Grumman, which can be had in the low $30K range.

If he's open to experimental, an RV-4 or RV-6 are usually attainable at around $40K - 45K.

It's not the upfront cost that gets you, it's the maintenance and op. ex. Might as well buy the most capable example you can reasonably afford if you're looking to spend >$40K in the end when the motor goes.

As much as I love the -140, putting big money into one is usually a losing proposition as there's a limit to what folks are willing to pay for an essentially 2-place, ~100 - 105 knot aircraft with a lower climb rate.

If he's really limited to $15K, the only viable option as I see it is a C150.
 
mizer2167 said:
If he's open to experimental, an RV-4 or RV-6 are usually attainable at around $40K - 45K.
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No way. RV-4 may be a $45k plane. But RV-6 is a $60k plane. RV-7 is a $70k+ plane.
 
FormerHangie said:
Does anyone have any better suggestions for an airplane for @easik ? Just casually poking around Trade a Plane and Barnstormers gives me an idea that the pickings are slim these days. When GA activity was declining for all those years and the fleet was slowly shrinking, it wasn't a problem, but now with activity picking up a bit worldwide, the shelves for good used 150 and 180 hp singles are getting a little bare. I know the word to the wise is to find someone who's interested in selling by word of mouth, but if he's not plugged into that community, how is he going to find one? Let's face it, lots of the smaller airports are locked up as tight as a drum much of the time, and even if you get in all you're going to see are locked hangars and some less loved aircraft tied down outside.

I'm thinking an inexpensive Cherokee with a high time engine might be one of his better options.
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Moo knee
 
zaitcev said:
No way. RV-4 may be a $45k plane. But RV-6 is a $60k plane. RV-7 is a $70k+ plane.
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There's five or six RV-6's on Barnstormers right now for <$50K.

They're not the finest examples, but they do exist.

There's one high time RV-4 that I've seen for $27K as well in another location.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Note to self: Don't allow mondster to overhaul my Lycoming engine. ;)
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Ha. I've got enough work to do and don't need more. :)

But on a more serious note, when an engine needs work it needs work. The engines I've overhauled with lower time on them have met their demise for various reasons. Cracked cases, failed bearings, spalling camshafts and lifters, prop strike teardown inspections that have enough stuff wrong with them to prompt an overhaul, low oil pressure, etc. Engines will generally give plenty of warning that something isn't right prior to scattering themselves so it is in people's best interest to pay attention and heed those warning signs.
 
I chose the Cherokee140 over a Grumman Yankee and a Lynx. You can load the the tanks and the front seats of the 140 while in the Yankee, something had to give when filling the seats and fuel. That was fuel thus limiting range albeit the Yankee was 20mph or so faster. Wish we were having this conversation in a year or so from now, and I would offer you mine when I upgrade to the Mooney 201 :D
 
No matter what type you end up with, you will end up with a lower TCO if, rather than minimizing the acquisition price, you minimize risk by buying a good example.
 
GeorgeC said:
No matter what type you end up with, you will end up with a lower TCO if, rather than minimizing the acquisition price, you minimize risk by buying a good example.
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Not really. You increase your odds of a lower TCO, but you don’t necessarily “end up with a lower TCO”. Newly overhauled engines blow up too.
 
Mooney Fan said:
I chose the Cherokee140 over a Grumman Yankee and a Lynx. You can load the the tanks and the front seats of the 140 while in the Yankee, something had to give when filling the seats and fuel. That was fuel thus limiting range albeit the Yankee was 20mph or so faster. Wish we were having this conversation in a year or so from now, and I would offer you mine when I upgrade to the Mooney 201 :D
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The Cherokee is more equivalent to the Grumman Traveler, not a Yankee or a Lynx.
 
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