Piper Cherokee 140 restoration

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Eagle_

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Eagle
Hi all,
I’ve got an old Pa 28-140. It’s been sitting in a hangar for +-15 years now. I am wondering about what it would cost me to get it back in airworthy condition. I know I need to have the engine and prop overhauled, but I am wondering about the airframe itself. The rubber on the door seals is visibly weathered, (I guess anything rubber (seals etc.) will be like this after such amount of time), rivets show some corrosion, it has flat tires and the left main landing gear appears to have been leaking some fluid. Not entirely sure if it’s brake fluid or hydraulic fluid. The interior seems ok, minor corrosion on the trim handle and old avionics aside. I will probably need to replace the transponder and radio’s too as well as the battery. I guess the wing spars would need to be inspected as well as the fuel tanks, (there is still some fuel left in them). Could anyone give me some estimate of what the cost of this project might be? I would like to do as much as possible by myself but I am no licensed mechanic. The aircraft used to belong to my grandfather but he had to quit flying after being diagnosed with diabetes, he has passed away a few years ago. So this plane has some sentimental value attached to it.

thanks in advance.
 
You may or may not need to overhaul the engine and prop. You need a good inspection to see if there is any visible corrosion.

The same for the airframe, a very good visual inspection for corrosion. And critter nests.
 
The cylinders and mag’s are visibly corroded on the outside. And it silently passed the 12 year TBO.
 

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Eagle_ said:
Could anyone give me some estimate of what the cost of this project might be? I would like to do as much as possible by myself but I am no licensed mechanic.
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Unfortunately, it is very difficult to give a cost estimate on projects like this. However, if you are personally commited to seeing this project through to the end without fail, there are certain steps you can take that can get you a ballpark cost estimate. But first a couple questions:
Are you have a pilot certificate?
In whose name is the aircraft currently registered under?
 
I have an EASA ppl A (SEP), The aircraft was deregistered 1 or 2 year’s ago due to inactivity. It used to be registered in the Belgian national register.
 
Eagle_ said:
I have an EASA ppl A (SEP), The aircraft was deregistered 1 or 2 year’s ago due to inactivity. It used to be registered in the Belgian national register.
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So the plane is in Europe or the US?
 
The plane is in Europe, does this complicate things?
 
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's going to be a lot, and there's not much you can do as a non A&P.
Engine is going to be big $ these days. Lycoming and all the rebuilders are very backed up and using price to manage demand. O320 likely about 30 to 40k. You likely don't need to do anything to the prop. WAG on the airframe 10 - 20k. For example, you'll need to pull both tanks and do SB2006 to replace the flexible lines, that will also get you the spar AD compliance. (you don't have to do the eddy current inspection on the Hershey bar wing). All of your fuel and oil lines will likely need to be replaced. Avionics will be another chunk of change.
One variable would be where it's been stored. If it's a dry and not terribly hot area, it might be in better shape. I suspect you'll be looking at a minimum of 50K to 70K
 
Just my own take on it; You will end up with just a bit more in it, than what it will be worth in dollars. But you can fly off some of that.
Now, had you made an arrangement to fly it for these past 15 years it would probably be in much better shape. As to condition/corrosion, it depends on where it's been all this time. In AZ, or NM, it may well need the dust washed out of it, and the glass replaced. in FL, or on the coast, it may well need the glass saved and the airplane replaced. Fixing leaky landing gear is cheap, but messy. Look at the logs, how many hours since overhaul? Then look at the engine, sure, replace hoses and whatnot, IRAN the carb, clean out the fuel system, and see what happens. You may find yourself with a low time, many years old engine, that's in decent shape. Then again, you may find yourself with a worn out third run with over/undersized everything.
I would pull the tanks for SB1009, and go ahead and replace the hoses, and fuel sender gaskets while there. While the tanks are off, the rest of the inboard wing can be inspected, spar included. Go ahead and spring for new stainless fuel tank screws. they come in a kit from Aircraft spruce. About $80, or so for both tanks. Also new sump drains, as long as you're there. So, for ~$200 in parts (O-rings, 5606, screws, and hoses) you'll have it back on it's own 3 feet, with wings inspected, landing gear repaired, and new fuel, and brake hoses. Now you may end up with less than that involved, depending on how the wing inspection goes. Next pull all inspection covers, all interior panels, and give the fuselage a good going over. wipe down all control cables with a clean rag. If the rag snags on anything, replace the cable. Pull up the carpet, look at the condition of the floor under. Pay particular attention to the seat rails. (they are structural components)
Now, while it's apart, it's a good time to check for AD compliance. Cherokee 140's don't have many ADs but compliance is a must. I don't know what year your 140 is, but there is an AD requiring periodic inspection of the stabilator torque tube assembly. But if it's identified with green paint, the AD doesn't apply. (mostly later models)
That's about it for now. I guess you'll be busy for a few days on that list.
 
Eagle_ said:
The plane is in Europe, does this complicate things?
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Extremely. Unfortunately, the EASA regulatory system is not as flexible as the US FAA system with projects like this to the point it could be considered prohibitive in even trying. However, to put this in perspective for you I would seek out a local certified shop and discuss your options. While each EASA member has certain requirements to follow there may be some exceptions in your specific country. Good luck.
Hang 4 said:
there's not much you can do as a non A&P.
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FYI: in the overall picture, under the FAA system a pilot can perform/sign off quite a bit of work on these type of projects under their certificate and Part 43 Appdx A. It was one of the requirements I had when I did projects like this in the past.
 
Thanks a lot for the feedback guys, seems like a lot of work (as was expected) but it sounds doable. It’s a 1969 model it has been sitting in a hangar the whole time in a mild/average but rainy climate, about a 2 hour drive away from the coast (straight highway).
 
Bell206 said:
Extremely. Unfortunately, the EASA regulatory system is not as flexible as the US FAA system with projects like this to the point it could be considered prohibitive in even trying. However, to put this in perspective for you I would seek out a local certified shop and discuss your options. While each EASA member has certain requirements to follow there may be some exceptions in your specific country. Good luck.

FYI: in the overall picture, under the FAA system a pilot can perform/sign off quite a bit of work on these type of projects under their certificate and Part 43 Appdx A. It was one of the requirements I had when I did projects like this in the past.
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could this be solved by having it N- registered? I know a lot of people are flying US registered planes in Europe.
 
Eagle_ said:
could this be solved by having it N- registered? I know a lot of people are flying US registered planes in Europe.
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Yes and no. But its not that simple. While N reg aircraft are regularly flown and maintained in the EU, it is more of a different mind set on aircraft maintenance in general. Add in this aircraft has been deregistered and is in an unairworthy state just further complicates the move to N reg. But its not my intent to discourage you from pursuing this endeavour. Only that it will take your A game to make it happen. Your best bet is to sit down with a local aviation professional... not an EASA guy... and work out your options. Regardless, feel free to post or PM any further questions you may have. An old saying comes to mind, where there's a will there's a way. ;)
 
First - I would assure the title is clean. It’s possible there are liens for hangar rent or maintenance.

Second - Complete the INSPECTION . Ignore the temptation to start fixing small issues till you KNOW what the scope of the project is. Engine and pulling tanks would lead the tasks. I had to replace tanks on a Colt due to old, congealed fuel.
This should be done by someone familiar with the type (including ADs).

At this point you can check prices for parts and labor. Don’t assume that something that seems minor is not costly.
 
FYI: you guys are missing the fact this aircraft is located in Europe.
 
Yes, European registry complicates things. In the US, TBOs are not mandatory for years or hours. I think they are in Europe. So engine overhaul would be mandatory. Possibly also for prop, but fixed pitch prop is pretty easy and relatively cheap.

Airframe corrosion would be the big thing. You can pull the inspection plates and take a good look first. Major corrosion would be a HUGE project.
 
AD 98 02 08 pertains if the engine has been upgraded to 160 HP. However; Lycoming MSB 505 applies even to stock engines. Having to install a new Crankshaft could very well make the whole project unfeasible.

Pulling the Crank Plug and checking for pits requires only a few hours labor . It may be a good place to start, Or stop.
 
I'm looking at the surface corrosion on the engine photos and that would have me pretty concerned about the airframe condition. I'd be pulling apart a lot of the interior and opening inspection panels to look for more corrosion. Airframe issues are the real concern, everything else is removable accessories. Paying for a good day-long+ inspection would be money well spent.
 
Since 2020 EASA registered airplanes operated privately are not subject to any TBO and other voluntary SBs. The only mandatory requirements are airworthiness limitations and ADs, same as for FAA Pt.91.
 
Pinecone said:
I think they are in Europe. So engine overhaul would be mandatory.
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In general, if the aircraft is operated privately there is no mandatory overhaul requirements under EASA/EU. At one time each EASA member country did have their own requirements on overhauls however the EASA just recently finally got accepted a single rule that covers all member countries.
 
The bigger question is "why"?

1) If you want to do this because you have a lot of time on your hands, and you just like restoring things, then it makes sense.

2) If you want a quick and inexpensive way to get a flyable plane, then this does not make sense.
 
WDD said:
The bigger question is "why"?
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Did you miss the sentimental value part? When it is a family heirloom the cost and effort to restore an item is often secondary.
 
mondtster said:
Did you miss the sentimental value part? When it is a family heirloom the cost and effort to restore an item is often secondary.
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I indeed missed that.
 
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