Piper Arrow, apparently "priceless"

tawood

tawood

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Display name:
Tim
So in my search for a new plane, I've come across this Piper Arrow:

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...l=ARROW+IV&listing_id=2395462&s-type=aircraft

The ad has no price listed (which typically irks me to begin with), but its a very clean arrow, and I'm willing to pay top dollar for a plane to get a clean example, so I called the dealer listing the plane and asked the lady that answered for the price of the plane....

And she proceeds to talk for over 5 minutes, telling me all about this Arrow, and Arrows in general, without ever giving me the asking price. So after patiently waiting several minutes, I finally interrupt her and ask, "But what's the price?" And again, she goes into a spiel that would put a timeshare salesman to shame. But still, after listening for another minute, I'm forced to just hang up and bring to an end her question-dodging sales pitch, because I figure this much justifying must mean a really, REALLY, ridiculous price. Life's too short for this BS.

Does this sort of tactic actually work? How many people's time must they waste to finally find their buyer?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
When I was looking I skipped the “call for price” planes.
My view is if you’re not upfront about the price, what else are you hiding?
If no one calls them, they’ll get the message.
Click to expand...

And I thank people like you for that. Got the Comanche for 30% under market value at the time because it said make offer and no price listed. Oh and the first annual was under $1000, so no surprises.
 
Maybe the wife said to the owner, "George, if you want peace (a piece?) in this house, you have to sell that damned airplane!" "Sure, honey, I'll list it in the morning."
 
Yes the tactic works. If it did not dealers would stop.

Depending on what is going on, when dealing with this tactic, I put the phone on speaker and mute it and do something else. When they finally stop talking, I say oh, hello, did you say something? Can you give me the price?
If they start the speal again, I put them back on mute. I will usually give them one or two shots.

The other technique I like is when they start talking and not answering the question, I go blah blah blah and keep repeating it until they stop. I then ask for the price, if the start another speal, I start blah blah blah again until they stop.

Yes, I am rather immature. :)

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
EdFred said:
And I thank people like you for that. Got the Comanche for 30% under market value at the time because it said make offer and no price listed. Oh and the first annual was under $1000, so no surprises.
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And I want to thank you (at least I think it was you). You had posted something like this before. Until I read your previous post, I was of the mindset of not calling any ad that didn’t list a price. After I read your post, it made sense and I called on a Seneca that I was looking at, which ticked all my boxes but had “Call for price.” I think I got a very good deal.
 
Sluggo63 said:
And I want to thank you (at least I think it was you). You had posted something like this before. Until I read your previous post, I was of the mindset of not calling any ad that didn’t list a price. After I read your post, it made sense and I called on a Seneca that I was looking at, which ticked all my boxes but had “Call for price.” I think I got a very good deal.
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Which means if your broker uses this tactic they are likely not getting the best price.
 
Sluggo63 said:
And I want to thank you (at least I think it was you). You had posted something like this before. Until I read your previous post, I was of the mindset of not calling any ad that didn’t list a price. After I read your post, it made sense and I called on a Seneca that I was looking at, which ticked all my boxes but had “Call for price.” I think I got a very good deal.
Click to expand...

Just like with most things, you don't get if you don't ask. The topic of "oh it must have a price or I won't call" comes up every once in a while. Well guess what happens when you do call? You might get a deal. Glad you scored one as well. And it was most likely me, I think you and I are the only ones on the board who ignored the "if it doesn't have a price don't buy" advice.
 
Sluggo63 said:
....I think I got a very good deal.
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I heard something to the effect of if you think you got a good deal you probably didn't, and if you are angry about the price you paid, you probably did get a good deal. who knows if that's true or not.
 
eman1200 said:
I heard something to the effect of if you think you got a good deal you probably didn't, and if you are angry about the price you paid, you probably did get a good deal. who knows if that's true or not.
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I think that quote is similar to what you always hear about merging seniority lists after an airline merger - you know the result was as fair as can be when *everyone* is p***ed!
 
EdFred said:
And I thank people like you for that. Got the Comanche for 30% under market value at the time because it said make offer and no price listed. Oh and the first annual was under $1000, so no surprises.
Click to expand...

I got my Mooney for 30% under market value too, and it listed a price, but that was back in 2013.
I talk to a broker about this, he said it supposedly reduces calls from tire kickers, but he also felt it also reduces chances of making a sale. He said sometimes you don’t sell the plane being asked about , but you end up selling another plane in your inventory, maybe months later, because you’ve established a contact with a prospective buyer.
 
LesGawlik said:
Maybe the wife said to the owner, "George, if you want peace (a piece?) in this house, you have to sell that damned airplane!" "Sure, honey, I'll list it in the morning."
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A joke as old as time itself…
 
eman1200 said:
I heard something to the effect of if you think you got a good deal you probably didn't, and if you are angry about the price you paid, you probably did get a good deal. who knows if that's true or not.
Click to expand...

That may be correct. I wasn't even planning on buying a plane, and made a stupid low offer just so I could get @SCCutler to quit hounding me about replacing the Cherokee and I could say "I made an offer and they didn't accept." Well, they accepted.
 
EdFred said:
That may be correct. I wasn't even planning on buying a plane, and made a stupid low offer just so I could get @SCCutler to quit hounding me about replacing the Cherokee and I could say "I made an offer and they didn't accept." Well, they accepted.
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Same here. I gave an offer which I thought was way too low and it was accepted. Turns out it was a one owner airplane whose owner turned 70 and found he couldn't be insured for a turbocharged twin for a reasonable amount of money. It helped that he was an Air Force/ANG flight doctor for 30+ years, and once he found out I was a former AF pilot, it was like he wanted me to have the airplane. It all worked out.
 
Well if you gave that place your email or phone number, expect a lot of cold calls from them. I spoke to them about 5 years ago about a plane, still get calls and emails from them. Even though I to,d them I am no longer looking.

But someone I know bought a plane from them, said it was a great experience.
 
quick, someone else call, listen to her, then post the price;)
 
Make offer and call for price I view as the same, but different. I also think in a lot of cases, if you have to ask you probably can't afford it.

I have little patience for most salesman. If I have a question it's because I've done my research and it's a very specific question. Most of the time I know the product better than the salesman selling said product. As was probably the case here. I bought an engine drive welder air compressor from Miller. I knew what I wanted. The only question I had was where the air line comes out. Not only could he not answer, but tried to sell me something several thousand dollars CHEAPER that wouldn't do everything I wanted. The other one is "well, let's look in the book". Been there and the answer isn't in the book. Got anyone here that can actually help?
 
Maybe she's trying to find a barefoot pilgrim for her 40 year old Florida airplane? This market is crazy!
 
$250K ?!

But honestly, looking at the condition inside and out and with those avionics this thing is probably more capable than a "brand spanking new" 172 or new Arrow/Archer from Piper.. which likely has lower useful load and is undoubtedly going to be much slower. Aren't new slow basic fixed gear trainers in the $450K range?

Plane prices make no sense.


I'm torn on the "call for price" thing. I can understand both sides of it. Maybe the seller wants serious buyers only who give enough of a crap to actually call. Maybe their plane doesn't really compete with anything so it's hard to price out. Maybe they just want to gauge the response they get from the guy on the phone.

Even so, airplane prices make absolutely no sense. It's all desire / romance / timing / luck driven.
 
Tantalum said:
$250K ?!

But honestly, looking at the condition inside and out and with those avionics this thing is probably more capable than a "brand spanking new" 172 or new Arrow/Archer from Piper.. which likely has lower useful load and is undoubtedly going to be much slower. Aren't new slow basic fixed gear trainers in the $450K range?

Plane prices make no sense.


I'm torn on the "call for price" thing. I can understand both sides of it. Maybe the seller wants serious buyers only who give enough of a crap to actually call. Maybe their plane doesn't really compete with anything so it's hard to price out. Maybe they just want to gauge the response they get from the guy on the phone.

Even so, airplane prices make absolutely no sense. It's all desire / romance / timing / luck driven.
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Only, Piper isn't making the Arrow any more. When I bought the Cherokee a few months ago, the seller said he got a call from a guy who admitted he had looked at 27 different planes.

https://www.piperforum.com/threads/getting-piper-to-build-some-new-arrows.21759/
 
Racerx said:
Only, Piper isn't making the Arrow any more. When I bought the Cherokee a few months ago, the seller said he got a call from a guy who admitted he had looked at 27 different planes.

https://www.piperforum.com/threads/getting-piper-to-build-some-new-arrows.21759/
Click to expand...


Access to PiperForum.com is subscription based. Subscriptions are only $19.99/year or $3.99/month to gain access to this great community and unmatched library of Piper knowledge.

You must be logged-in to do that.
 
EdFred said:
Access to PiperForum.com is subscription based. Subscriptions are only $19.99/year or $3.99/month to gain access to this great community and unmatched library of Piper knowledge.

You must be logged-in to do that.
Click to expand...
Apologies. Short version. Someone wanted a new Arrow and was told by Piper they're not building Arrow's and would need an order of 15 for them to restart production.
 
Racerx said:
Only, Piper isn't making the Arrow any more.
Click to expand...
Which sorts of proves the point that you can spend $450K to buy a "new" (but less capable) slow piece of crap (sorry Piper, I love you, but the "new" PA-28s don't fly like the 1970s birds do) or you can spend almost half and go faster.

I am not saying $250K is a reasonable price. But if you want something "new" with glass, etc., then your options are limited, especially if you're looking for something "turnkey"
 
$250k for a '79 arrow with 5000+ hours and a gear up in its past...no wonder they didn't want to say. I'd be embarrassed to say that too.
 
If that thing is worth $250k my Mooney is worth at least $125k.
 
donjohnston said:
$250,000.

No chatting. Just "how much" and they answered.
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:eek::rolleyes:
I must've missed the part of the ad where there's three airplanes...

Hell I'd part with the lance for that kind of money. Id even put the fancy avionics in it for you.
 
I'd guess they're just tired of answering the question, like I'm tired of endless txt msgs offering to buy my house.
 
Tantalum said:
Which sorts of proves the point that you can spend $450K to buy a "new" (but less capable) slow piece of crap (sorry Piper, I love you, but the "new" PA-28s don't fly like the 1970s birds do) or you can spend almost half and go faster.

I am not saying $250K is a reasonable price. But if you want something "new" with glass, etc., then your options are limited, especially if you're looking for something "turnkey"
Click to expand...
Can talk to Jesse Saint and have a build assist RV10 with glass for about that price. Roomier and faster...and 50 years newer
 
Racerx said:
Can talk to Jesse Saint and have a build assist RV10 with glass for about that price. Roomier and faster...and 50 years newer
Click to expand...

I never heard of him/them, but as someone that is looking hard at RV-10's, I just wanted to say thank you.
 
Racerx said:
Can talk to Jesse Saint and have a build assist RV10 with glass for about that price. Roomier and faster...and 50 years newer
Click to expand...
I don't disagree at all. Or if you really wanted to spend $450K you can guy a lancair Mako for Cirrus performance and (new) C-172 prices

But to "build" your own airplane, even if assisted, is a whole other ball game and commitment for people. That can be a tough sell

The twin Velocity would be a sick ride.. or this guy in the other thread that built a twin RV.. if you're going to go experimental I think part of the fun is really building something unique
 
Wait, what? Twin RV?


Nevermind, found it. Saw it on Instagram the other day but didn't know it started as an RV.
 
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