Piper Archer Checkout - Done!

azpilot

azpilot

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azpilot
I completed my checkout in the Piper Archer this morning. Some had recommended to review all the V speeds and POH material ahead of time, which is a fantastic idea. Except I didn't have a book, so we spent an hour of ground going over all of that material ahead of time. The FBO has a worksheet that you fill out for each airplane you fly. The instructor and I went over all of that together. I also brought up how I had been taught to fly power off abeam the numbers. We went though how I should be flying the pattern in this airplane.

My last 50 hours of flying has all been in a 38 year old 172. This flight was in a 15 year old Archer. It was actually immensely nicer on the inside. I was pretty surprised at the narrow forward visibility. All of the switches, knobs and dials all look different and are in different spots. This plane also had a Garmin 430. I think I might download a manual for it and just read the manual cover to cover. My instructor showed me how everything works, but I don't think it all completely set in.

The actual flying was great. I could tell it had a little more zip than the 172. It DEFINITELY climbed better. We deep steep turns in both directions, and power on/off stalls. We also went over emergency procedures. We then came back in to KCHD and made 2 T&G followed by a full stop on 4R.

Incidentally, one of the weirdest things was announcing that I was an "Archer" rather than a "Cessna". My radio calls were all good, but I had to actually think about what I was saying, rather than it just flowing out instinctively.

As for the landings, it was just slow to 80 KIAS, one notch of flaps. Turn base, slow to 75 KIAS second notch of flaps, turn final, slow to 70 KIAS, last notch of flaps. I found that my brain keeps reverting back to the 172 V speeds. I'll need to make some flash cards or something to drill these new speeds into my head. The actual landings weren't bad, but they weren't great. Some people had mentioned that I would start to flare high. I'll admit, I didn't think I would do that.... but I did.... I am sure as I get a few more landings under my belt, they'll get better. I had gotten to the point in the 172 were the landings were very smooth. These landings weren't smooth, but they weren't bad. I just need some practice.

Overall it was a good flight. In the 172, I had been taking lots of different people flying; mostly family. I think I want to familiarize myself with the airplane a little more before I take people flying again. Mostly, its the avionics and everything on the panel. When you take other people, they can be distracting. I don't want to have to stumble over trying to remember where something is, or "how do I cancel that traffic warning on the 430"?

Overall, it was a great experience. The plane is MUCH newer and MUCH nicer, which is a big plus (that's not a piper/Cessna thing, just a how-old-is-the-plane thing). I am looking forward to flying this plane more and getting back to taking people flying!
 
yeah, the 430 is a bigger learning curve than the airplane if you've never used it before.

There is a Garmin 400-series PC simulator out there. It's very old and will need a compatibility mode. But, it's free. Once you get a 430 down, other Garmin GPSs are similar, even G1000, and you'll substantially shorten training time on those.

70 KIAS approach seems a bit fast for that, though I haven't flown an Archer that new. In my experience, the V speeds are quite similar to a 172. 65 KIAS short-field approach (at max gross) rather than 61, for instance. Note that the speeds are slower at lower weights, proportional to sqrt(M). Too-fast Archers are prone to floating.
 
Glad you enjoyed the check out. It only gets better.,as you become more comfortable with the airplane/avionics.
 
DFH65 said:
You can download the 430 simulator here. https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3527

A really easy thing to learn in short term is the direct to button. Know how to just find an airport and fly directly to it.
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azpilot said:
This is great! I will definitely give it a try. Avionics and button/knob placement seemed much more difficult than actually flying! :D
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While that might be your best choice if you have a non-WAAS unit, if you are flying behind a 430W, you will want to download the G500/600 simulator. It will include the PFD and MFD in addition to the 430W but you can just ignore those. Also, the G500/600 simulator has a much newer database which is nice. It runs fine on Windows 7.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-0G500-00&cID=195&pID=63598

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4867
 
Flying a PA-28 is stupidly simple. Take the advice on playing with the Garmin sim for the 430. For regular VFR flying it isn't too bad, but when you get to flying approaches there are a lot of nice features in the box.
 
For PA28s I use 90-80-70 since it's easy to remember, and then the depending on the headwind at final slow below 70 as it feels "right."

Those low wings like to land :)
 
rolivi said:
For PA28s I use 90-80-70 since it's easy to remember, and then the depending on the headwind at final slow below 70 as it feels "right."

Those low wings like to land :)
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MPH, I presume? I use the same in the 172, 10 more in the Arrow or 182.
 
He's talking knots. The Archer likes 70 or less, even 65. Any faster and you float.
 
Huh, seems fast. I use 70 mph on final in a 172 and 80 mph on final in an Arrow or a 182.
 
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IDK. 65-70 knot works for me at a 2300 foot strip, not a lot of float.

POH calls for 66 knots approach speed. Bottom of the white arc is 49...
 
Most people call it Cherokee on the radio. I was feeling frisky with center last week and called Archer when I swapped over to Mem. They replied with Cherokee. I chuckled. PA28 is a Cherokee across the board to ATC. Just live a Bo is a bo no matter F33, v35 A36 and so on. They are all Bo's to ATC
 
Unit74 said:
Most people call it Cherokee on the radio. I was feeling frisky with center last week and called Archer when I swapped over to Mem. They replied with Cherokee. I chuckled. PA28 is a Cherokee across the board to ATC. Just live a Bo is a bo no matter F33, v35 A36 and so on. They are all Bo's to ATC
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Ya, I noticed that today. I flew the Archer again for some T&G practice. On the radio, they kept calling me "Cherokee-2WG". I kept calling myself "Archer-2WG". I wasn't sure how I should handle that. I kept calling myself an Archer hoping they would notice their error. I was trying to avoid confusion, but I probably created more.
 
Having flown Archers exclusively for a very long time, I always use the Archer 1234A on initial call and Archer 34A subsequently. If asked type I say PA 28 Piper Archer. I am usually referred to as Archer by ATC, but on occasion I get Cherokee, more often it is Arrow and on some rare occasions Dakota. Don't where that came from not close to same phonetic as Archer. Cherokee covers a wide spectrum of different models under that moniker, with different performances. My Archer is not the same as a Cherokee 140. I like all of this series but there are differences even between twin siblings.
 
azpilot said:
Ya, I noticed that today. I flew the Archer again for some T&G practice. On the radio, they kept calling me "Cherokee-2WG". I kept calling myself "Archer-2WG". I wasn't sure how I should handle that. I kept calling myself an Archer hoping they would notice their error. I was trying to avoid confusion, but I probably created more.
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They are all the same in the eyes of ATC. Not really that big of a deal if they call you Cherokee.
 
CRAFT said:
Having flown Archers exclusively for a very long time, I always use the Archer 1234A on initial call and Archer 34A subsequently. If asked type I say PA 28 Piper Archer. I am usually referred to as Archer by ATC, but on occasion I get Cherokee, more often it is Arrow and on some rare occasions Dakota. Don't where that came from not close to same phonetic as Archer. Cherokee covers a wide spectrum of different models under that moniker, with different performances. My Archer is not the same as a Cherokee 140. I like all of this series but there are differences even between twin siblings.
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So if they start calling you "Dakota 1234A", do you start calling yourself "Dakota 1234A"? It seemed to add to the confusion that I was calling myself an Archer and Tower was calling me a Cherokee.
 
Cherokee, Challenger, Archer, Arrow, Warrier, Dakota, take your pick, all PA-28. I fly a Challenger, call in as a Cherokee, no problems. All the same except for minor variations. I know, I know, there is good cause for flame here (be nice) but they are all PA-28.
 
Spotter626 said:
Cherokee, Challenger, Archer, Arrow, Warrier, Dakota, take your pick, all PA-28. I fly a Challenger, call in as a Cherokee, no problems. All the same except for minor variations. I know, I know, there is good cause for flame here (be nice) but they are all PA-28.
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To the manufacturer, yes. And even though Piper dropped the name "Cherokee" after the 1977 model year (after '78 for the Cherokee Six), controllers, especially the ones who have been around a long time, often call any PA-28 or PA-32 a "Cherokee".

But when ATC enters your type into the computer, it's a little more complex, because the system doesn't allow for type designators longer than four characters, and it's often inconsistent with the manufacturers' model number protocols.

Any fixed-gear PA-28 under 200 hp is "P28A"; over 200 hp is "P28B". Low tail Arrows are "P28R" for normally-aspirated versions; "P28S" for turbos; and T-tail Arrows are "P28T" and "P28U" for normally-aspirated and turbo, respectively.

Same pattern for the PA-32 series, right? :no:

Fixed-gear PA-32 models are ... PA32. Low-tail Lances and retractable Saratogas are P32R; and T-tail Lances P32T. There is no distinction between normally-aspirated and turbo.

So when ATC asks for type, a Challenger or Archer pilot's most accurate answer is "P28A."

All of the FAA-recognized type designators can be found here.
 
I've been called a Saratoga, repeatedly, by Green Bay approach. Ha.

I don't repeat the name of the aircraft on readbacks anyways, just the last 3 of my callsign. 95% of the time I get called a Cherokee, NBD to me.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
All Archers have Johnson bar flaps.
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Phrasing! ;)
 
alfadog said:
While that might be your best choice if you have a non-WAAS unit, if you are flying behind a 430W, you will want to download the G500/600 simulator. It will include the PFD and MFD in addition to the 430W but you can just ignore those. Also, the G500/600 simulator has a much newer database which is nice. It runs fine on Windows 7.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-0G500-00&cID=195&pID=63598

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4867
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I really appreciate you posting this. I have been using the 430 simulator for sometime and while it does have some GPS approaches, a lot of them didn't "match" my plates.

I downloaded the G500/600 and the 430W box more emulates mine and the approaches and waypoints actually match. Much less frustrating for me to practice with. Thanks!!!
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I really appreciate you posting this. I have been using the 430 simulator for sometime and while it does have some GPS approaches, a lot of them didn't "match" my plates.

I downloaded the G500/600 and the 430W box more emulates mine and the approaches and waypoints actually match. Much less frustrating for me to practice with. Thanks!!!
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You're welcome. :)
 
Having flown a 172 with the electric flap lever and several PA28s with the Johnson bar flaps, I much prefer the latter.

-Extend and retract faster
-Easier to reach
-Detents are positive
-Much easier to select the flap notch you're looking for quickly and positively
-No electric parts or switches to fail
-Much more obvious if the flaps are left extended
 
Pilawt said:
They did on the PA-32 series, as of 1985, I believe. But AFAIK all PA-28s have manual flaps.
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I fly a PA32 with manual flaps. When the plane was purchased, by my father after he trained in a 172, he was worried about manual flaps. Now he admits he prefers them.

Using the flaps is very simple. The only mild issue is you can sometimes miss a notch while retracting them. They have a spring that will "pull" the flaps in, and can cause you to overshoot the click point. It takes a little practice to get a feel for this. Extending them it is very clear what level you are at.
 
evapilotaz said:
So was it awkward with Johnson bar. I thought at one time Piper did away with the Johnson bar.
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I actually really like the manual flaps rather than the electric flaps. We took a minute or two on the ground to go over how they work (it's really not that complicated).

My instructor warned me about retracting the flaps on a go-around. I think that is likely the biggest thing you need to worry about with the manual flaps. You can go from flaps 40 to flaps 0 in a second. In the 172 if retract the flaps fully it still take several second for them to come all the way up. He had me practice retracting the flaps simulating a go-around on the ground with the engine off. We then did it again when we practiced the power off stall.

Like I said, I really liked it. On my first flight after my checkride I had a complete electrical failure in the 172. I landed without event, but it sure would have been nice to be able to use the flaps if I had wanted them. Then again, I am a bit of a control freak and drive a car with a manual transmission because I don't want to rely on electronics to do everything for me.
 
It's also possible to retract them accidentally in a 172.

I did a go around and meant to retract them from 40 to 20 degrees, but accidentally moved the lever to 10. Got some sink that I did not want.
 
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