Piper 151 .. what do ya'all think?

[RyanB]

Yepp, both vref and naaa is between 45 and 52, I will probably offer something in the middle, but haven't even seen the logs yet...so too early

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In theory this is a -161 with the engine upgrade and would make a fine first airplane. Always funny how everybody suggests other aircrafts than what's in question.

If you can get this for a fair price, (~$47k) than I'd say you did just fine. Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[WannFly]

In theory this is a -161 with the engine upgrade and would make a fine first airplane. Always funny how everybody suggests other aircrafts than what's in question.

If you can get this for a fair price, (~$47k) than I'd say you did just fine. Good luck and keep us updated.

thanks . My A&P thinks its gonna be a nice bird for me, especially for a first timer. I understand the logic behind buying something that you will keep for 10 years, but in 5 years I might win a lotto and buy a TBM, or get fired and sell my SUV, put some more money down from my savings and buy a bike from Walmart.. dunno.

still waiting for the engine logs, but got the airframe log and it says the first log book was destroyed in fire... whenever hear this, sounds like a dog ate my homework. I will see what my A&P says, but from what I have learnt in this forum...its a red flag and I might have to chase down all AD compliance...etc...
so might not work out at the end

 

[WannFly]

Don't get emotionally committed to purchase ANY airplane until after the results of the independent mechanic's pre-buy inspection are in. Deal breakers might include significant corrosion and uncertain, potentially "service limits" provenance on the last engine overhaul.

Regarding density altitude ("DA"), no non-turboed airplane will climb really well above 12,000 ft but the Dakota and Skylane (~230 hp) will do better than the 160/180 hp passel of aircraft. Also, the Cherokee 140/Warrior models are notorious for poor climb above DA=10,0000 ft. If DA is a big concern for you, pay up for the Archer or buy a Cessna 172XP. BTW, I fly a C-172 with the O-320 D2J engine and Powerflow exhaust, probably about 175 hp. I am fine in the mountains, even on hot days, provided it is just me and maybe one passenger. Message: you can manage DA better with a light load in passengers and/or perhaps fuel.

About ownership in general: I think it is the only way to go if you fly >100 hr/year and can afford it. I absolutely love the freedom to fly throughout the West, over/around mountains, maybe to Mexico once in awhile; all without dealing with any FBO's annoying but perfectly understandable requirements (> 1500 hrs here), and of course the aircraft is nicely appointed and always available to me. I understand it may cost me more than driving (but not as much as spur-of-the-moment airline ticketing, even for one). BTW, I bought my airplane nine years ago with the thought I'd mostly be doing local hamburger runs. Instead, I've ended up flying it all over the West, over/around mountains, to Mexico, and coast-to-coast. I travel at a glorious 108 kt but I spent the money for an autopilot and a comfortable interior. A little extra speed is less important than you might think but range and comfort are both under-rated. I fly from the SF Bay Area to Tucson faster than I can get there door-to-door flying commercial (like with many flights, there is no nonstop service available), for example.

Enjoy,

Don

thanks for chiming in Don. Yes, comfort is something imp to me too. doesn't have to be dressed up in hand sown leather...but...
I brought up DA as an example, I am a flat lander and it will be quite some time before I venture out in the west or east, over the mountains. not doing it till get IFR and loads of time. I am still pre-solo. I would like to learn in the plane I buy, get my IFR (for added safety). I do not have to go anywhere in a hurry, if I do, I will fly commercial.

 

[mtuomi]

So no complete logs either?
$35k bird, no more than 40.

 

[WannFly]

So no complete logs either?
$35k bird, no more than 40.

Looks that way. He said there are other logs that will be uploaded tomorrow, so will see. But found an entry that said first light book destroyed somewhere in CA

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[mtuomi]

Looks that way. He said there are other logs that will be uploaded tomorrow, so will see. But found an entry that said first light book destroyed somewhere in CA

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Not having full logs is not a dealbreaker, but it does affect the value.
If you were buying a forever plane, it's not a big deal, but since I think you're not, remember that when you're trying to sell it, not having full logs will have an effect on the value.
It sounds like you won't be able to make the deal, since the seller is asking 20ish more than what the plane actually is worth.

 

[WannFly]

Not having full logs is not a dealbreaker, but it does affect the value.
If you were buying a forever plane, it's not a big deal, but since I think you're not, remember that when you're trying to sell it, not having full logs will have an effect on the value.
It sounds like you won't be able to make the deal, since the seller is asking 20ish more than what the plane actually is worth.

good point. I will see what my A&P says. he is very conservative, generally. not pinning my hopes on this one.

 

[WannFly]

this is what the entry says: "Original log books lost in fire at....CA, I certify that the AC and Engine times recorded in the Tach meter are correct. All ADs inspected for previous compliance"... what exactly does this mean? does this mean nothing to worry about? or it means nothing and I have to prove compliance with every AD there is.

 

[mtuomi]

this is what the entry says: "Original log books lost in fire at....CA, I certify that the AC and Engine times recorded in the Tach meter are correct. All ADs inspected for previous compliance"... what exactly does this mean? does this mean nothing to worry about? or it means nothing and I have to prove compliance with every AD there is.

It means that if the plane was flooded for 40 days, and burnt down by witches and rebuilt from barely airworthy materials, you wouldn't have a clue. You only know it was airworthy, not whether it was botched together from barely serviceable parts.

 

[Tampico Trauma]

we're waiting on the broker formerly known as @Tampico Trauma

Currently in an alcoholic haze after meeting with the tax accountant today. Be back Thursday


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[WannFly]

here is the panel and engine. Paint is pretty good shape. interior - no rips that I can see.
from a avionics point of view
430
STEC 55X with GPSS
GTX 330
GI-106A
yet to see the engine logs, but from the aircraft log it seems like the first one ran for 2100 hrs, then top OH for another 1000, then SFOH in 2007

 

[WannFly]

It means that if the plane was flooded for 40 days, and burnt down by witches and rebuilt from barely airworthy materials, you wouldn't have a clue. You only know it was airworthy, not whether it was botched together from barely serviceable parts.

 

[ericg]

So no complete logs either?
$35k bird, no more than 40.

Yup. I might even say that is generous.

I fear you might have new airplane buyers blinders on this one. It's not like this is some rare plane and an opportunity rarely comes across to buy it. You will take a bath on it if you go to sell it. It's priced almost double what it's worth. Don't be like the expression, a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[paflyer]

Not having full logs is not a dealbreaker, but it does affect the value.
If you were buying a forever plane, it's not a big deal, but since I think you're not, remember that when you're trying to sell it, not having full logs will have an effect on the value.
It sounds like you won't be able to make the deal, since the seller is asking 20ish more than what the plane actually is worth.

Yeah, this.

 

[GRG55]

Hey would you have any qualms flying in/out of here with the Aztruck, 4 hours of fuel and 1400# pax and luggage? Book says easy peasy, but those trees are intimidating half way down the runway...

http://www.airnav.com/airport/K16

Technically no, can't do it. Four hours of fuel for the IO-540s + 1400 lbs of payload puts me a little over the 5200 gross.

However, K16 is 3000 ft long and only at 450 ft ASL, so theoretically if you dump the mother-in-law should be no problem.
FWIW, by way of comparison, I go in and out of a gravel runway cut in a similar fashion out of the boreal forest about 30 minutes north of me. Usually in there at least 3 or 4 times a year in the summer and fall. It is 2440 ft long at 3665 ft ASL (and at 75 ft, it is also three times as wide as the sidewalk at K16). Checked my logbook and heaviest I estimate I've ever been on one of those trips was 4700 lb to 4800 lb, some 400 lb to 500 lb below gross.

 

[paflyer]

Technically no, can't do it. Four hours of fuel for the IO-540s + 1400 lbs of payload puts me a little over the 5200 gross.

However, K16 is 3000 ft long and only at 450 ft ASL, so theoretically if you dump the mother-in-law should be no problem.
FWIW, by way of comparison, I go in and out of a gravel runway cut in a similar fashion out of the boreal forest about 30 minutes north of me. Usually in there at least 3 or 4 times a year in the summer and fall. It is 2440 ft long at 3665 ft ASL (and at 75 ft, it is also three times as wide as the sidewalk at K16). Checked my logbook and heaviest I estimate I've ever been on one of those trips was 4700 lb to 4800 lb, some 400 lb to 500 lb below gross.

Sorry, I wrote that wrong; it's 840# pax/luggage and 600# fuel. So gross is just under 4500#.

 

[WannFly]

well folks, the broker's last price is 60k. I am back on the market

 

[mtuomi]

well folks, the broker's last price is 60k. I am back on the market

He'll be brokering that one for a while.

 

[GRG55]

well folks, the broker's last price is 60k. I am back on the market

Never, ever forget that it is easier to buy an airplane than it is to sell one. That Warrior is nicely equipped in some ways, but still seriously overpriced.
Be patient. My current airplane took a year to find. I knew exactly what model and equipment I wanted and found one that was almost a perfect fit on that checklist at a fair price.

 

[paflyer]

well folks, the broker's last price is 60k. I am back on the market

How about this: https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1237662_1968+Beechcraft+E33A+Bonanza.html

"Price Firm" but a lot of airplane for the $ (albeit high-time engine, but you could get hundreds of hours out of it with luck and good maintenance.)

 

[ircphoenix]

Do not. Under any circumstances. Buy less than a Cherokee 180. For over 45k.

This coming from a guy who got screwed on his 1970 140/160 (and will attempt to sell for the same price he got screwed at, despite paying godawful sums of money to keep it flying).

 

[Daniel N 69]

I know this is a 5 year old post. I am just starting out flight training and my instructor said i could save a lot of money if i bought my own plane. on trade a plane website every decent plane is above 45k. So in 2023 what would be a good deal on a 180? i am a pretty big guy 330 (in the process of losing weight. hoping to get down to 275 by years end and hopefully 250 in a year from now. Thankfully my weight is mostly vertical and not horizontal. so i fit fine in a normal seat with no extenders necessary. i am 6ft 6 with a little bit of a spare tire in my midsection. i fit fine in the 172 i currently train in. no extenders are needed.) i did a sample electronic weight and balance sheet on the 180 and myself and my instructor would be well within the weight limit of the 2450 max weight of 180 (i would have to add 60 pounds of ballast to the cargo hold to even out CG and we would still be under gross.)

I am am not married to any particular model. i could got a Cherokee 180 or a cessna or even a cirrus. i am just reaching out the those with knowledge to help point me in the right direction so i do not get taken to the cleaners. Many thanks in advance for the help.

 

[simtech]

A decent 180 now would be about 55 to 60k. A Cherokee is a good first plane and the 180D is great and basically of it fits through the door it will carry it..but see then you upped the ante and said cirrus which is in a totally different class....if a cirrus is what you want after you get your certs by all means take it now but totally different animal just to save money training..just my 2 cents

 

[frfly172]

For 55 k I’d be looking for a nice 180. For the 151/160hp I’d think it should be in the 30to40k range.

 

[Daniel N 69]

thanks simtech and frfly172. any other websites besides trade a plane i can look? like i said in my 1st post all the 180s are way above 60K.

Simtech: i apologize for adding the cirrus. was not trying to confuse anyone. i know it is also a trainer. i need way more training to fly that bird. it is a nice plane but i follow dirty harry's motto "a good man has to know his limitations." and being as you need a special endorsement to fly the cirrus being as the HP is so high. i think it is best to stay with the 180 or 172. I will keep hunting for a good cherokee 180D like you suggested.

thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[Mongoose Aviator]

@Daniel N 69 - You might want to go for a test flight in a Cherokee.
Decide for yourself if you are comfortable climbing into and out of the pilot seat.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

Do not. Under any circumstances. Buy less than a Cherokee 180. For over 45k.

This coming from a guy who got screwed on his 1970 140/160 (and will attempt to sell for the same price he got screwed at, despite paying godawful sums of money to keep it flying).

I wonder how this worked out for you. I paid 25K for a 1969 140/160, flew it for around three years, and sold it for the same price. I think five years ago.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

@Daniel N 69 - You might want to go for a test flight in a Cherokee.
Decide for yourself if you are comfortable climbing into and out of the pilot seat.

I second this.

Unlike a Cessna, getting in and out of the Cherokee gracefully is substantially more challenging the bigger you are.
I'd also make sure your clearance is OK (head not against ceiling). IDK if it's just my seat configuration but in my Piper Arrow (essentially a retractable-gear version of a Cherokee) you would have to pitch your head at an angle, or you'd have to recline your seat substantially in order to fit. There is no chance of you sitting upright at 6'6" -- your head would be wedged into the ceiling. Maybe some seat configurations provide more headroom.

FWIW, I'm 6'0" and 255 lbs. I can fit an equal sized person in the right seat w/o issue -- but we'll be brushing shoulders often. Not a huge deal to me, but for some people it might be tough. Older guests and heavier guests have a harder time getting in and out of the plane.

 

[Daniel N 69]

I can not thank you all enough for the pointers especially since the original thread was 5 yrs old. now i just have to find and airplane under 60k. like i said in my original post everything on trade a plane is above 80k. most say or or best offer but i doubt if someone is looking for 80 they would settle for 60.

as a backup if i am to tall for a 180 what would be the price i am looking for for cessna 172/182?

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

I can not thank you all enough for the pointers especially since the original thread was 5 yrs old. now i just have to find and airplane under 60k. like i said in my original post everything on trade a plane is above 80k. most say or or best offer but i doubt if someone is looking for 80 they would settle for 60.

as a backup if i am to tall for a 180 what would be the price i am looking for for cessna 172/182?

If you're flying in a 172 currently and fit OK, I'd say a 172. A 182 would be a nicer plane but there are very few ownership opportunities in that price range. Airplane prices really went nuts the last couple years and 182s had some of the more egregious price increases. All this said, you should still go for a ride in a Cherokee just to see if you like it

And pricing wise, this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't write off a plane someone is listing for 80 if your budget is 60. It never hurts to be upfront and let them know you'd be a buyer at 60. Sure you might not get it, but maybe you do. A lot of people list with prices that I can only describe as incredibly optimistic. Sometimes all they need is a couple people to give them lower offers to bring their expectations back down to earth.

 

[Pinecone]

Vref puts the value at over the asking price.

The S-tec is a BIG item to the value.

 

[unsafervguy]

For 55 k I’d be looking for a nice 180. For the 151/160hp I’d think it should be in the 30to40k range.

Are you even looking at current prices? You can’t get any pa28 for 30 unless it’s a project.

 

[schmookeeg]

With those personal dimensions, include the baby beeches (Musketeer, Sundowner) in your search. My first plane was a Sundowner and its owner was 6'6 and 360#.

 

[charheep]

thanks simtech and frfly172. any other websites besides trade a plane i can look? like i said in my 1st post all the 180s are way above 60K.

S.

Controller.com or barnstormers.com are good websites. Facebook groups are growing in popularity, so check those as well.