pilot time building, rental vs owning/ good career?

[jarod]

Hello all, hope all is well for everyone.

I am almost down with my training fly my PPL just need to take my written and then checkride prep, I also have my flight medical test coming up but it should be well and uneventful hopefully and allow me my 1st class medical. I’m seriously looking into making it a career I really do love flying and I want to get my commercial rating. So I have 2 real questions for you

A. I’m looking into calculating the goal price for a Commercial rating, and a huge chunk (about $21k) of the cost will be only renting the plane, and with that comes all there rules and where I can take it. So I was wondering if it’s a possible good idea to maybe spend $15-18k and buy my own Cessna 150 or 152 save some money and also be allowed to build hours faster and take it where I want. Is this a common thing to do what’s your all opinions on the pros and cons? Does anyone know good places to look for affordable planes?


B. I’ve asked this before but just a slightly different point, do most people who become commercial pilots think it’s a good career and able to find work? I am just worried reading other peoples stories that you can’t always find a job as a pilot and the industry is looking unstable.

thanks everyone I know there both generic questions and not the best but I appreciate the help and opinions, you all really helped me with getting over most my fears of flying and furthering my training and it is something that I really enjoy more than almost anything else. So if I could make a living if it dependably I’d love it. Also I probably don’t need to own a plane but it would be cool


Thanks all,
Jarod

 

[RyanB]

So I was wondering if it’s a possible good idea to maybe spend $15-18k and buy my own Cessna 150 or 152 save some money and also be allowed to build hours faster and take it where I want.

And exactly what kind of 150 or 152 do you think you’ll find for $15-18k?

 

[jarod]

And exactly what kind of 150 or 152 do you think you’ll find for $15-18k?

Yeah very fair point, you hear every once in a while of finding a decent plane but that’s probably not common, I don’t need an amazing plane just something I can fly without the wings folding off. But your right it’s probably more expensive than just renting

 

[RyanB]

Yeah very fair point, you hear every once in a while of finding a decent plane but that’s probably not common, I don’t need an amazing plane just something I can fly without the wings folding off. But your right it’s probably more expensive than just renting

If you think you’ll find an airworthy 150 or 152 in that price range and still come out cheaper, you’re sadly mistaken.

 

[midwestpa24]

The idea of buying a 150/152 or other "low cost" aircraft for time building has been done over and again. It can be done, but I wouldn't bet on a break-even at the end of the day. All it takes is one major breakdown or oops, and that "low cost" airplane is no longer cheap, and as the owner its on you to fix. I have a friend that was doing exactly this, and now has an engine-less 152 in a hangar.

Not to mention in the current market, that "cheap" 150/152 is probably $30k+. If you find them much less than market, there is probably a reason.

 

[jarod]

Yeah you all are right, I let my excitement get the better of me lol sorry guys, but mainly the most important thing I’m interested in is your opinions on my second part


Thanks
Jarod

 

[TCABM]

Yeah you all are right, I let my excitement get the better of me lol sorry guys, but mainly the most important thing I’m interested in is your opinions on my second part


Thanks
Jarod

Just like any other career, there’s a mixed bag. Flying professionally, especially in the early years, isn’t the most financially rewarding and may involve a need to relocate to where the jobs are. The more qualified/employable you become, the more ability you have to be selective in what work you do.

What’s important to you outside of the career will drive some of your decisions. If you don’t want to be gone 4 - 14 days at a time and living out of a hotel, then that may play a role in what paths you take.

 

[flyingpreacher]

Man, these guys jumping all over you for looking at a plane in that price range are right...if you go sole ownership. However, you can almost assuredly get into a club for that (I'm in for about half of that). Then you have a cheaper hourly rate than renting, but don't eat all the ownership costs by yourself. Great blend of both worlds, plus in say a 10 member club, you can get into a plane that's probably 7-10x the price of what you could afford on your own.

 

[midwestpa24]

Just like any other career, there’s a mixed bag. Flying professionally, especially in the early years, isn’t the most financially rewarding and may involve a need to relocate to where the jobs are. The more qualified/employable you become, the more ability you have to be selective in what work you do.

What’s important to you outside of the career will drive some of your decisions. If you don’t want to be gone 4 - 14 days at a time and living out of a hotel, then that may play a role in what paths you take.

As TCABM said, it all depends on the lifestyle you prefer. Pilots, especially earlier in their career, tend to live a somewhat nomadic life. You may need to move around to the job you want, and there are very few 9-5, Monday through Friday, flying gigs.

Right now the industry is struggling to get pilots. Lots of positions available, and pay is skyrocketing because of it. But as anyone who has been in this industry long will tell you, it will collapse again one day. It always does. Nearly anyone making a career as a pilot has endured a furlough or layoff at least once in their career.

 

[RussR]

Of course, the price of the plane (not maintenance/insurance/hangar/etc) is not $30k or whatever. It's whatever you pay for it, minus whatever you sell it for when you're done. Plus interest if you have a loan.

But it's not inconceivable for the net cost of the airplane itself to be zero.

 

[rhkennerly]

But when thinking about commercial flying, it's more than the commercial license. You're going to need an instrument rating & the tested/certified equipped plane that goes with that training.

The plane doesn't have to be fancy, plenty have trained ifr in a 150, but you'll need heavier & more expensive equipment.

 

[BladeSlap]

I’m on the rotor wing side, but I still can’t believe people pay me to do this stuff

As for renting vs buying, fixed wing seems too different for me to comment.

 

[sourdough44]

There are some instances to fly with an owner possibly, not that it would quickly cover the bulk of those hours. Just keep sniffing around once you get your private. Later on a CFI rating would get you going.

 

[kaiser]

The savings you seek should exclude acquisition costs… try numbers on carrying cost plus operating expenses on a 60?k Cherokee (I don’t actually know what they run) that you plan on selling after… that might make the numbers work better.

 

[BladeSlap]

The savings you seek should exclude acquisition costs… try numbers on carrying cost plus operating expenses on a 60?k Cherokee (I don’t actually know what they run) that you plan on selling after… that might make the numbers work better.

I don’t speak fixed wing, but a 60k Cherokee? Uhh there are tons of those hoopties rotting on our ramp

 

[midwestpa24]

I don’t speak fixed wing, but a 60k Cherokee? Uhh there are tons of those hoopties rotting on our ramp

A decently airworthy Cherokee is pushing $60k in today's market unfortunately. Those rotten corpses on the ramp will probably cost more than that to make them airworthy again.

The most expensive airplane you can find is the cheapest to buy.

 

[BladeSlap]

A decently airworthy Cherokee is pushing $60k in today's market unfortunately. Those rotten corpses on the ramp will probably cost more than that to make them airworthy again.

The most expensive airplane you can find is the cheapest to buy.

Not sure about that, but I get your point

 

[MickYoumans]

I learned to fly back in the early 80’s. I purchased a 150M (1975 model) from an airport about 40 miles away. It was their trainer plane but it had reached 2000 hours on the engine so they couldn’t use it commercially anymore without an engine rebuild. With me being a private pilot I could fly the plane as long as the engine remained airworthy. The rest of the plane was in great shape. I bought the plane for $6800, got my PPL in it and continued to fly it until my wife became pregnant with our second child. I knew a two seater just wouldn’t work any more for us and felt the money would be better spent on my family at this stage of our life. I sold the plane for $6300 to another airport about 60 miles away. Their training 150 had sustained some air frame damage but their engine was good. They put their engine in my airframe. I just checked and that plane is still registered to them so I assume it is still flying. For the economics of the 80’s, I know I came out way ahead owning my own plane versus renting for my situation. My local airport is 7 miles from the house but the nearest rental plane is about 30 miles away. That also factored into my purchase decision.

As others have said, I doubt you are going to find a decent plane for 20K. You might be able to find a decent plane with an engine beyond TBO for a reasonable price that the engine still has good compression and runs well. Keep in mind that this is a bit of a gamble though. If for some reason your plane can’t pass airworthiness during annual inspection, it is going to run you north of 20K for an engine overhaul unless you are lucky enough to be able to get away with just a top overhaul. My little Cessna 150M had a recent top overhaul with great compressions before I bought it, which was great for me to have confidence that I would be able to put many hours on it before needing a full overhaul.

There are so many questions you need to honestly ask yourself about plane ownership, shop around to see what you can find that fits your mission, then do the math to see if it works for your situation. I LOVE owning my own airplane. I currently have a fully restored Cherokee that fits my needs. In the airplane world, it is relatively inexpensive to own and maintain, although airplanes are not inexpensive in any regard. I do not have to go through the rental hassles. If I had to rent I just know I would do very little flying. Owning does have some down sides though. Every year you are going to have down time and expense for the annual inspection. There is also insurance, taxes, hangar fees and etc. to consider.

Do your homework and be very honest with yourself and the budget you have to work with.
Best wishes with your flying!

 

[kaiser]

I don’t speak fixed wing, but a 60k Cherokee? Uhh there are tons of those hoopties rotting on our ramp

There’s a gorgeous (soon to be rotten) Cessna 310R on the north ramp out here. Right now it only appears to have a bum nose wheel tire…

 

[mandm]

I would do your checkride first, depending on your examiner that could be a reality wake-up call. Having a PPL is still very “new” and even though I am instrument rated I think that flying at night and on cross countries is still a risk. You need time and experience to really understand flying and that is what I’m learning.

But getting your own plane I think is a great idea, but for your budget you won’t have any avionics in it, which is a safety risk and doesn’t help you get your instrument rating. Ideally you’d only fly in clear skies and not touching night in your proposed plane. I’ve got caught up in weather myself and at night flying nearby a lake can be quick to cause spatial disorientation, and you’re a matter of seconds away from a fatal mistake.

Also know that buying a plane at that price point is only the ticket to get in, things on these old planes are quirky and break. Even though I got a thorough prebuy and a several month repair process, after picking up the plane there are things that don’t work right and are on my to do list. It’s easy to think you buy a plane and you can fly it to build time, but when you get stranded somewhere and your plane doesn’t start, that plane isn’t as valuable as you once thought it was and your hours building suddenly stops until it’s fixed. Thankfully for me, I think it’s a user error on the issue. But know that prebuys only catch some of the major items and not the small quirky stuff that you have to learn to deal with (or be annoyed with).

In my research for a 2 seater you’re looking at 25-35k, and you’d want a 4 seater to have more useful load and range (which is still very limited). I have seen some older 172s with some IFR avionics such as a Garmin 430 that pop up sometimes for a quick sell around the 35-50k mark. Get a thorough prebuy inspection, know what issues those planes could have and have that checked, last thing you want to do is buy a nightmare. For resale value you need complete logs and low time. Pay more for avionics as it’s much much cheaper to buy a plane with avionics already installed than add them later, and that affects your resale price and desirability when you decide to sell in the future. Check for parking and insurance rates as well.