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brien23

brien23

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Brien
I am asked all the time about how to work in Aviation how to get a job flying. University-Based Aviation Programs or do it yourself local FBO up through the ranks building time as a CFI. Time was up through the FBO route or Military pilot route, now the Military requires years of commitment after you get the wings and hardly anyone sticks around the FBO more than the first commuter job offer. What advice do you give young people trying to figure out a route to a flying Job.
 
Small school that will hire you as a CFI, then build time. The way the airlines are hiring now and not requiring a degree, why waste 4 years if that is the career path you want. Just my 2 cents.
 
Give them both paths that you listed here and let them make their own decision, as to which is better for them.
 
Sounds like what your saying they're looking for the easy and quick way. Amiright? o_O
 
retpd2001 said:
Small school that will hire you as a CFI, then build time. The way the airlines are hiring now and not requiring a degree, why waste 4 years if that is the career path you want. Just my 2 cents.
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It is almost impossible to get a job with one of the top airlines (AAL, DAL, FDX, SWA, UAL, UPS) without a four-year degree.
 
retpd2001 said:
Small school that will hire you as a CFI, then build time. The way the airlines are hiring now and not requiring a degree, why waste 4 years if that is the career path you want. Just my 2 cents.
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Right now you’re not gonna get on at one of the majors without a degree. I’m sure the occasional person gets hired but it’s very rare.
 
Buy a surplus A1-H, advertise on the Dark WEB that you are willing to fly CAP for drug runners and shoot down DEA aircraft. With a huge loiter time you can get lots of hours in a hurry.
Or you could do the other stuff, CFI, fly for flight museums\airshows, tow banners and gliders. Hang out at the local airports and offer to ferry airplanes around for owners who are too busy to do it themselves. I did a lot of that as a kid.
 
Going $200k in debt at Embury Riddle is the only way to go.
 
Problem with the AH-1 with ammo you can only get a 1.5 till you need more go juice...unloaded..3+...CFI the way to go...our small club needs another one full time but yet to find anyone.
 
Busflyer said:
Right now you’re not gonna get on at one of the majors without a degree. I’m sure the occasional person gets hired but it’s very rare.
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Exactly. There are always isolated cases of nepotism or where someone high up owes a favor, but for the rest, you need a degree and I just don’t see the shortage ever getting to the point where the majors need to cave on this.

I know a guy who gave up getting his degree to take a regional job and he’s betting it all on the majors giving up on the degree thing. I think he’s a fool.
 
brien23 said:
I am asked all the time about how to work in Aviation how to get a job flying. University-Based Aviation Programs or do it yourself local FBO up through the ranks building time as a CFI. Time was up through the FBO route or Military pilot route, now the Military requires years of commitment after you get the wings and hardly anyone sticks around the FBO more than the first commuter job offer. What advice do you give young people trying to figure out a route to a flying Job.
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Don’t try to get your education on the tax payers dime

Look Into CFIing, glider tow, drop zone, etc
 
Shepherd said:
Buy a surplus A1-H, advertise on the Dark WEB that you are willing to fly CAP for drug runners and shoot down DEA aircraft. With a huge loiter time you can get lots of hours in a hurry.
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Got a link? Inquiring for a “friend.”

;-)
 
Warlock said:
Problem with the AH-1 with ammo you can only get a 1.5 till you need more go juice...unloaded..3+...CFI the way to go...our small club needs another one full time but yet to find anyone.
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I was going to say. My only experience with AH-1s was working with the Marines and ‘huge loiter’ time was an unheard of concept.
 
Get your ratings as cheap as possible. Doesn’t matter if you go 61 or 141
 
Larry in TN said:
It is almost impossible to get a job with one of the top airlines (AAL, DAL, FDX, SWA, UAL, UPS) without a four-year degree.
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I am just an old helicopter guy but that is not what I hear from both a flying buddy who is a check airman with American, and my helicopter pilot son who works at an airport with both a university program and a small FBO that puts out students. 1000 hours either way, they get hired. But I am not there so I will cease and desist.
 
retpd2001 said:
I am just an old helicopter guy but that is not what I hear from both a flying buddy who is a check airman with American, and my helicopter pilot son who works at an airport with both a university program and a small FBO that puts out students. 1000 hours either way, they get hired. But I am not there so I will cease and desist.
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Everyone knows that one guy who got hired without a degree. 99% of the pilots that get hired have a degree. Why limit yourself? The regionals don’t care but majors still do. I would also get the degree before getting to a regional. Every FO and CA I’ve flown with who are working on their degree says it sucks while trying to fly full time.
 
retpd2001 said:
1000 hours either way, they get hired.
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They are not getting hired at AAL, DAL, FDX, SWA, UAL, or UPS with 1000 hours; they are getting hired by one of the regional airlines. Lots of people have gone to a regional quickly, instead of finishing their degree, then found that they were stuck.

1000 hours isn't the requirement, ATP minimums are. The total-time requirement can be 750, 1000, 1250, or 1500 depending on how the hours and training were received. See 14 CFR 61.160 if you are interested in the details. That's only the TT requirement, though. You also have to meet all the other ATP requirements and flight time breakdowns.
 
retpd2001 said:
I am just an old helicopter guy but that is not what I hear from both a flying buddy who is a check airman with American, and my helicopter pilot son who works at an airport with both a university program and a small FBO that puts out students. 1000 hours either way, they get hired. But I am not there so I will cease and desist.
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That’s Regionals, not Majors. No one gets a Major with 1000 hrs
 
When you guys say degree, do you mean a degree in aviation or just any 4 year university degree?
 
I do believe you can flow to AA from a wholly owned without the degree, but regardless I agree with everyone’s overall point.

And this isn’t specific to the degree, but also keep in mind that competitive mins rise and fall with demand - when this bull cycle ends things will get tight again and everyone will start getting more choosey. Things are good now, but if you’re still in the early stages of the game, there’s no telling where you’ll be in the cycle when it’s time to apply to your career destination.
 
kayoh190 said:
I do believe you can flow to AA from a wholly owned without the degree, but regardless I agree with everyone’s overall point.

And this isn’t specific to the degree, but also keep in mind that competitive mins rise and fall with demand - when this bull cycle ends things will get tight again and everyone will start getting more choosey. Things are good now, but if you’re still in the early stages of the game, there’s no telling where you’ll be in the cycle when it’s time to apply to your career destination.
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Yea you don’t need a degree to flow to AA. At Endeavor, we need to meet all of Delta’s minimum hiring requirements before we get our guaranteed interview. One of those requirements is a 4 year degree.
 
kayoh190 said:
I do believe you can flow to AA from a wholly owned without the degree, but regardless I agree with everyone’s overall point.

And this isn’t specific to the degree, but also keep in mind that competitive mins rise and fall with demand - when this bull cycle ends things will get tight again and everyone will start getting more choosey. Things are good now, but if you’re still in the early stages of the game, there’s no telling where you’ll be in the cycle when it’s time to apply to your career destination.
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Agreed. The interesting thing about your last statement is that the majors are still declining interviewees. Which is to say, if this is them not being choosey, it really is immaterial what things look like when hiring slows down again, even if lost decade style capacity contractions are never encountered in the industry ever again.

There is no pilot shortage at the north American top 4 (+2 cargo). As much as I despise the outright rent seek and dilution of the market value of bachelors degrees in this country when indexed for their ballooning cost, that de facto post-millennial high school diploma is a requirement that's here to stay wrt major airline pilot employment.
 
retpd2001 said:
I am just an old helicopter guy but that is not what I hear from both a flying buddy who is a check airman with American, and my helicopter pilot son who works at an airport with both a university program and a small FBO that puts out students. 1000 hours either way, they get hired. But I am not there so I will cease and desist.
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At a regional sure. Not at a major.
 
kayoh190 said:
I do believe you can flow to AA from a wholly owned without the degree, but regardless I agree with everyone’s overall point.

And this isn’t specific to the degree, but also keep in mind that competitive mins rise and fall with demand - when this bull cycle ends things will get tight again and everyone will start getting more choosey. Things are good now, but if you’re still in the early stages of the game, there’s no telling where you’ll be in the cycle when it’s time to apply to your career destination.
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This is true but flow is roughly7 years away for a new hire today. It won’t take much for that flow to evaporate and you’ll lose the only way to a major without a degree.

A good compromise would be get hired at an AA owned regional then do the degree in a distance learning program. I think the degree should be part of any plan to go to a major.

This advice is from a guy that left college to fly full time. I have never had a problem getting a job flying but a major is pretty much not an option. If someone wants to go major airline they need the degree.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Agreed. The interesting thing about your last statement is that the majors are still declining interviewees. Which is to say, if this is them not being choosey, it really is immaterial what things look like when hiring slows down again, even if lost decade style capacity contractions are never encountered in the industry ever again.

There is no pilot shortage at the north American top 4 (+2 cargo). As much as I despise the outright rent seek and dilution of the market value of bachelors degrees in this country when indexed for their ballooning cost, that de facto post-millennial high school diploma is a requirement that's here to stay wrt major airline pilot employment.
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Assuming no 9/11 type event, AA will have a real shortage starting around 2021 when they retire 800+ pilots a year for 5-6 years straight.
 
mtuomi said:
Assuming no 9/11 type event, AA will have a real shortage starting around 2021 when they retire 800+ pilots a year for 5-6 years straight.
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That’s when the fully autonomous airliners come in tho
 
CC268 said:
That’s when the fully autonomous airliners come in tho
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Nope. There will be single pilot planes first, and they will start in cargo first. Nothing in the pipeline though for at least 10 years.
Also. There's the passenger opinion. Would you board a pilotless airplane?
 
mtuomi said:
Nope. There will be single pilot planes first, and they will start in cargo first. Nothing in the pipeline though for at least 10 years.
Also. There's the passenger opinion. Would you board a pilotless airplane?
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Yes...to fly it. :D

But certainly not to ride in it.
 
Give it another year and the HR 4yr degree nonsense will go the way of the doe-doe bird.
 
It’s unlikely to get on with a legacy without a four year degree, but there are several major airlines that are not legacies.

FYI, I believe Delta now wants a masters. In addition, they want your four year completed in the first four years after high school. No taking a year off or five year plan...
 
Kritchlow said:
It’s unlikely to get on with a legacy without a four year degree, but there are several major airlines that are not legacies.
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Very true - and with the new contracts there are some really good reasons to do the non-legacy major thing these days. If I had stayed at my last airline I’d be making almost $50K more than I’m making now, and I’d be home every night.

Kritchlow said:
FYI, I believe Delta now wants a masters. In addition, they want your four year completed in the first four years after high school. No taking a year off or five year plan...
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The military guys seem to all come in with Master’s degrees, but I don’t think it’s a big deal on the civilian side. I aggressively went after Delta about a decade ago, but as you noted taking more than four years is a mark against you - I took six, but did two degrees and took a year off to get in-state residency. Eventually Delta called me, but by then I was already almost two years deep into my current job.
 
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mtuomi said:
Nope. There will be single pilot planes first, and they will start in cargo first. Nothing in the pipeline though for at least 10 years.
Also. There's the passenger opinion. Would you board a pilotless airplane?
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CC268 is trolling - he makes the joke all the time. :)
 
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mtuomi said:
Nope. There will be single pilot planes first, and they will start in cargo first. Nothing in the pipeline though for at least 10 years.
Also. There's the passenger opinion. Would you board a pilotless airplane?
Click to expand...

I was just trollin’...I like to get people all heated up. Guess that’s what happens when your raised with two older brothers :dunno:
 
No more pilot shortage talk. Makes me want to quit my job and start time building.
 
Cubicles are for chumps!!!
 
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