Pilot Friends using my airplane

[AggieMike88]

Thinking/dreaming out loud here...

I'm a happy member of a local aircraft owners club, but still daydream about having having a simple 172, PA28, or Grumman when I want to do local/regional flying and don't need the bigger aircraft of the club, or the club aircraft are booked.

So say I found and purchased one of those. Then one of my club friends I know and trust ask to borrow the aircraft. And I'm okay with both their skills, knowledge/capability of flying this bird, and they are legal/current to act as PIC. And we agree their cost is just a simple dry rate that doesn't create profit for me, but covers the usual fixed/variables a dry rate covers.

What do I need to know insurance wise on both my perspective and their prespective to allow them to use the aircraft? Liability, property? Protect me, protect the aircraft asset value, protect others, etc...

 

[Stingray Don]

My insurance covers it as long as the pilot I allow to fly my plane has 300 hours in type. I could be wrong on the hours but it is something like that. You would have to check with your policy holder and see what requirements they have.

 

[ChemGuy]

No expert but i believe if you have them as "named pilots" then YOU and any LOAN are covered. They would need waiver of subrogation so your insurance company cant come get them if they bend the plane. People say its rare for insurance to subrogate a person like that, but i would want be covered if i was the borrower.
If its not a rental for hire thing then i dont believe 100hr's are needed either.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Are we assuming that you're adding that club friend in as a named insured?

 

[mcmanigle]

Do check your open pilot clause. For a basic plane like you're talking about, it may only require a private ASEL certificate, or some number of ASEL hours without any time in type. Just like named pilot, this just means that you (the owner, and your loan if any) are covered for the loss, not that your pilot friend is covered.

 

[Stingray Don]

I just checked my policy. My insurance coverage will apply if I loan my plane to another pilot provided they meet the following criteria:

"Private pilots or better who have flown a minimum of 300 hours logged as pilot in command, 5 hours of which shall be in the same make/model"

 

[simtech]

Check the open pilot clause. On my P28 I can let anyone fly as long as they have a least a PP and have a current medical. No hour requirement. But they will tell you its for occasional use and if they start using the plane frequently then they need to be added as a named pilot.

 

[bradg33]

As others have mentioned, the obvious option is using your "Open Pilot" clause or warranty (assuming you have one). That clause will normally provide that your policy will protect YOU if you let a pilot with X qualifications fly the airplane. An important note here is that only YOU are covered if your friend crashes the plane. In other words, the insurance company will repair your plane (or write you a check) and will defend YOU in any lawsuits stemming from the accident, but it will NOT defend your friend if he's sued for personal injury or property damage AND the insurance company can sue your friend to recover anything it pays out under the policy (called Subrogation). The same applies even if your friend is a "Named Pilot" (though subrogration against a named pilot is less likely). If both you AND your friend want to be covered under your policy, your friend needs to be added as a named INSURED. As a named INSURED, your friend is generally entitled to all of the protections of the policy.

 

[N3368K]

Certified airplanes will typically have an Open Pilot Waiver with specific times for TT and make/model. Experimental aircraft will typically require named pilots for anyone other than owner/pilot to be covered. In either event, the insurance covers the owner only for the limits of the policy, including hull/in motion if you have said coverage. The other pilot will not typically be covered and could be liable. It is wise to make sure by asking the insurance writer beforehand. FWIW, my owner's insurance policy covers me while flying someone else's airplane so I don't need renter's insurance to fly other planes.

 

[Ted]

One question I'd have is if that setup (you own it and effectively rent it to others) wouldn't constitute a rental setup and subject the plane to requiring 100-hour inspections. That would strike me as a rental and requiring 100-hour inspections, but someone might prove me wrong.

What I can tell you is how we handled it when I was flying a friend's Mooney. They formed an LLC that owned the airplane and we were all club members with dues, etc. Of course, you could set it however you want and be owner of the business. This might be the way to go about it in your situation. If you're letting other folks use your plane and expecting them to pay, you probably want to have some sort of logbook for listing hours on the Hobbs, etc. to charge them appropriately. I would also recommend that you have the plane in an LLC anyway if you're letting others fly it.

The above situation worked great and I think is one that's not explored or used often enough. The owners had 100% operational control of the airplane (which was nice for them), but then I helped to defer their costs while being a trusted quantity for taking care of the plane. This was nice for all of us since we had only a few people flying the plane, and thus knew how it was flown. I knew as a renter that upgrades weren't my place to influence, but they did ask my opinion at times. When it ended we were all happy with how it had worked out. I moved on up (to twins), they moved on out (to Colorado, and sold the plane), but it was a great setup while it made sense. I flew that plane to Tony's graduation party and a bunch of other places.

The insurance aspects, etc. are discussed above. For a standard spam can, you probably won't need to do anything beyond open pilot unless you want to.

 

[coloradobluesky]

The answer is in the plane owner's insurance policy. So you have to read it to find out. Can also ask your agent before you buy the insurance what kind of coverage for other pilots you want and how much that would cost. Its whatever the insurance policy says it is.

 

[Ravioli]

I'm sure LOANING the airplane is like saying "bring my car back with the same amount of gas" but you're describing "bring my plane back with the same amount of gas AND give me $x per hour flown" Sounds a lot like renting to me.

Now then, you could loan it to him and say "just give me some gas money" Then the two of you can decide what a fair amount of gas money is

I've loaned my RV to someone to get his transition training. I told him just to replace the fuel. He was nice enough to forget a bottle of Scotch when he put her back.

 

[bradg33]

One question I'd have is if that setup (you own it and effectively rent it to others) wouldn't constitute a rental setup and subject the plane to requiring 100-hour inspections. That would strike me as a rental and requiring 100-hour inspections, but someone might prove me wrong.

100hr inspections are not required for a pure "rental" operation. They are only required if the airplane "
is "carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire" or being used to "give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides"

If you're just renting it to your buddy, even for a profit, no 100hr required.

 

[AggieMike88]

Check the open pilot clause. On my P28 I can let anyone fly as long as they have a least a PP and have a current medical. No hour requirement. But they will tell you its for occasional use and if they start using the plane frequently then they need to be added as a named pilot.

This might be sorta what I'm thinking of.

If it was an ongoing and frequent thing, then we'd go named pilot. But if random and few/far between useages, then open pilot.

 

[AggieMike88]

One question I'd have is if that setup (you own it and effectively rent it to others) wouldn't constitute a rental setup and subject the plane to requiring 100-hour inspections. That would strike me as a rental and requiring 100-hour inspections, but someone might prove me wrong.

What I can tell you is how we handled it when I was flying a friend's Mooney. They formed an LLC that owned the airplane and we were all club members with dues, etc. Of course, you could set it however you want and be owner of the business. This might be the way to go about it in your situation. If you're letting other folks use your plane and expecting them to pay, you probably want to have some sort of logbook for listing hours on the Hobbs, etc. to charge them appropriately. I would also recommend that you have the plane in an LLC anyway if you're letting others fly it.

The above situation worked great and I think is one that's not explored or used often enough. The owners had 100% operational control of the airplane (which was nice for them), but then I helped to defer their costs while being a trusted quantity for taking care of the plane. This was nice for all of us since we had only a few people flying the plane, and thus knew how it was flown. I knew as a renter that upgrades weren't my place to influence, but they did ask my opinion at times. When it ended we were all happy with how it had worked out. I moved on up (to twins), they moved on out (to Colorado, and sold the plane), but it was a great setup while it made sense. I flew that plane to Tony's graduation party and a bunch of other places.

The insurance aspects, etc. are discussed above. For a standard spam can, you probably won't need to do anything beyond open pilot unless you want to.

Tagging this with "I like pie" so I can find it again...

As stated, this is still all in the dreaming phase, and not even sure what would happen. But wanted to gain the education of both what to expect and what to do if it did.

The 100hr inspect is something to ask about, but I'm not sure if that applies. But the LLC club idea is a good one.

At it's simplest, I could always make the buddy a non-equity partner

 

[whereisrandall]

It's a great setup, worked VERY well for me over the last 4 years - ended last week and now I'm casting about for another deal like it.

It's a great way to go. Name the pilots on insurance and get friendly with Google docs to log time and squaks.

R

 

[ktup-flyer]

Idk about your question, but the local FBO is auctioning off one of their 172s. I bet it will sell cheap.