Pilot Career Question

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ApolloDog

Filing Flight Plan
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ApolloDog
I am a college student graduating in May with a degree in business. I have had an internship in Corporate America long to enough to know it is not for me. I have loved airplanes and traveling my entire life. I am also having a very hard time finding a job. I am considering upon graduation saying the hell with it and going to flight school. There is a 141 flight school I could attend where I live and I am fairly sure I could get to the 250 and ultimately 1500 with them. It would obviously cost a lot of money, but with pilot shortages it seems like I would not have trouble paying it off. It seems like that being an airline pilot would pay me more, let me enjoy my job more, give me better job security, and make getting a job easier, than if I went to Corporate America. So, to pilots in the industry, am I crazy or not? TIA for any advice.
 
It’s definitely a good time to be a pilot. The 141 schools are expensive but I know some of the regional airlines were helping to pay off some of the debt if you committed to them. Been a long time since I was in that phase of my career and I’m sure some of the younger guys will have better advice.

As far as the career goes, if you get bit by the bug it’s great. I wouldn’t change a thing. Can’t complain about the pay or days off however, I’m not so sure the job security is better than a corporate career. The pendulum always swings both ways. At some point, there WILL be a downturn at some point.

Also, you will miss holidays, birthdays, kids baseball/soccer/whatever games so keep that in mind.
 
It’s worth the effort. I can’t even imagine a 9 to 5 job.
 
Yes I would do it for sure. But don't waste any time. The early bird gets the seniority number, and everything in your life revolves around your seniority number. The flying business is very cyclical, especially airline flying. It's been in a dramatic hiring boom, when will the downturn come is anybody's speculation, but it will come. You don't want to be anywhere near the bottom when that happens. Working the long hours and schedules of airline flying will kill you, but 8-5 would have killed me faster. I know, I did a lot of that during furloughs. In the flying world, its almost essential to have some other skill to fall back on if needed. In this day and age, don't discount the other aviation jobs. Some can be really good also. So the big question????? in a few years, you will be a few years older, where do you want to be?
 
Before committing to a 141 flight school. Go see an Aviation Medical Examiner for a consultation. You don't want any surprises regarding your medical certification.
 
1st, finish what you started and get your degree.
2nd, what is your financial situation? That is, are you buried in student loans? If so, think twice about going another $100,000 or whatever it is further into debt. Get a job, live like you live in van down by the river, pay for lessons as you go, and when you get your CFI ticket you can do that full time until your 1500.


Ditto what Odie just said. Get a consultation for your 1st class medial now; make sure you can get it.
 
Not so fast. It's not as easy to get hired as it was the same time last year. Make sure you know exactly where the industry is and then throw away all that you know about the industry. Things are changing every day. Just do your research before jumping in.
 
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History shows piloting and job security don’t always go together. It may seem that way now, but down the road we’ll have another cycle. With that said, the last few years have been the time to get on board. Too bad you can’t stick it out until graduation, then start flying. It’s not that far away.
 
This is just an anecdote, consider it with all the other inputs: Ran into a SW airlines pilot the other day at KBUY, he is 2 years away from retiring. His take was that the window is fast closing, that people hiring on now might be consigned to FO status for a large part of their career, that airlines have done the bulk of their hiring, he pointed to the furloughs at Fedex and UPS.
 
WDD said:
Don’t forget the military option. As a college grad you’d be a great recruit for pilot training. Certainly checks the box on “not 9-5 corporate job”.
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More exciting equipment too. Some really tough downsides though, I'm looking at you SERE.
 
Rich Holt said:
More exciting equipment too.
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For some. For others, its King Airs, Gulfstreams, and large multi-engine jets mostly confined to ≤15 degrees of bank, just like the airliners.

Then again, it has been said that, contrary to Maverick's CO, flying a cargo plane full of rubber dogsh!t out of Hong Kong isn't such a terrible job after all.
 
DJTorrente said:
For some. For others, its King Airs, Gulfstreams, and large multi-engine jets mostly confined to ≤15 degrees of bank, just like the airliners.

Then again, it has been said that, contrary to Maverick's CO, flying a cargo plane full of rubber dogsh!t out of Hong Kong isn't such a terrible job after all.
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But those King Airs do have some sweet pointy things and gadgets to play with. You should try flat turns (0* AOB) inside a dark box, it's pretty amazing.
 
If you get into flying for any other reason besides wanting to fly, you're going to be very disappointed. Right now things are going awesome, but that could change in a heartbeat. I was stuck in the right seat of a PC-12 for almost 4 years barely breaking $30k a year. Some sort of worldwide calamity could put us back to those days again. If you're not doing it cause you love it, you'll very much regret your choice.

Also, like other posters have said, get your 1st class medical before you spend $1 on flight training. Also, if you have never been up in a small airplane before, go take a discovery flight at your local flight school. Its very different from riding in the back of an airliner. Best to find out if you like it or not at this point.
 
WDD said:
Don’t forget the military option. As a college grad you’d be a great recruit for pilot training. Certainly checks the box on “not 9-5 corporate job”.
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This is risky. I have one former primary student now flying F/A-18s. But some folks selected for pilot training in the military end up as drone pilots, and I doubt that is what they signed up for. It's been a long time since I went through Air Force pilot training, and perhaps it has changed a lot, but back then the wash out rate was around 33%. I doubt any of those fellows loved their new assignments.

Do you like those odds?
 
ApolloDog said:
It seems like that being an airline pilot would pay me more,
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Maybe, maybe not. Takes time to get to that airline left seat, and many never do.

ApolloDog said:
let me enjoy my job more,
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Possibly, but don't bet on it. Wonky flight schedules, base location, labor relations / strikes, jerk captains, missed family events, PO'd spouse, etc., etc., can all detract from what you're envisioning as a dream job.

ApolloDog said:
give me better job security,
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HAH! No, it won't. A medical issue, a strike, a pandemic, a merger, et cetera ad infinitum, can end your flying career in an instant. You'll spend many years low on the seniority list where you're a prime target for a layoff.

ApolloDog said:
and make getting a job easier, than if I went to Corporate America.
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Possibly true today, probably not true tomorrow.

You keep saying "Corporate America" like it's some massive uniform entity. It's not. There are many, MANY businesses, many different industries, different company cultures, and a wide variety of opportunities if you're savvy enough to find them.

You had one brief internship at one company, and based on that you've decided you dislike working for "Corporate America." That's akin to hearing one note from a symphony and deciding you don't like music. Keep in mind you've had even less experience piloting an aircraft, and you may very well find you won't like being a professional pilot either.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
This is risky. I have one former primary student now flying F/A-18s. But some folks selected for pilot training in the military end up as drone pilots, and I doubt that is what they signed up for. It's been a long time since I went through Air Force pilot training, and perhaps it has changed a lot, but back then the wash out rate was around 33%. I doubt any of those fellows loved their new assignments.

Do you like those odds?
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It's largely a completely separate pipeline these days, it's not like 10-15 years ago where jet dudes were getting RPAs.
 
Make sure you’re ok to get a first class medical, no prescriptions, hospitalizations, drug/alcohol abuse history. And never drink after drinking. That would put an end to flying or at least cause a lot of problems headache and money.

Then go for it, get an airplane to build hours as well, something that’s cheap to run.
 
ApolloDog said:
It seems like that being an airline pilot would pay me more, let me enjoy my job more, give me better job security, and make getting a job easier,
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That’s a big maybe to all those statements! Times are really good now. But remember, it’s all cyclical and there will be downturns. It’s all about luck and timing and I was fortunate enough to hit the timing just right. Honestly, it really is the best job ever IMO. Not many jobs that pay as much that will give you 15-20 days off per month. I love exploring new cities in layovers and having travel benefits. I’ve seen much of the world for next to nothing. Have you taken an intro flight? I’d say that’s your first step to see if you really enjoy it. Then make sure you can hold a first class medical. Good luck on your journey!
 
For those getting in to commercial aviation now what the industry looks like in 20 or 30 years from now might not be so good. In January, Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun revealed an open secret in the world of aviation. “I think the future of autonomy is real for civil,”. Now it’s becoming increasingly clear that self-flying planes are coming to commercial aviation. For those who wont get on one, plan on paying a lot more or take the train for travel. Southwest airlines had problems with unhappy passenger problems, but has no shortage of people that want to fly on their planes due to the cheaper price. We would still be flying DC-3 airliners if they were cheaper way to fly than airlines have now and will change again in the years to come. Just remember you are only one medical away from the unemployment line as a airline pilot.
 
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If you want something that has some excitement, try the cattle business. Same boom and bust, adrenalin and boredom, about a seven year cycle. I had a student ask me what he should do to get ahead in aviation so I told him to go to dental school. He looked at me aghast. I said, "think about it. You can afford to fly about anything you want, where you want, when you want." Certainly not like the time I spent flying 135 charter . I know a good number of "big iron" pilots - airlines, freight, Netjets, corporate, and many of them give the impression it's "just a job." I asked one the other day if he ever flies for fun. "Nope," he replied.
 
jnmeade said:
I had a student ask me what he should do to get ahead in aviation so I told him to go to dental school. He looked at me aghast. I said, "think about it. You can afford to fly about anything you want, where you want, when you want."
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I think I'd recommend optometry instead of dentistry.

Very little liability, no gooey phlegm and blood, and you make great money simply saying, "Read the lowest line you can" and "Which is better, number one or number two?"
 
Iflydogs said:
This is just an anecdote, consider it with all the other inputs: Ran into a SW airlines pilot the other day at KBUY, he is 2 years away from retiring. His take was that the window is fast closing, that people hiring on now might be consigned to FO status for a large part of their career, that airlines have done the bulk of their hiring, he pointed to the furloughs at Fedex and UPS.
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There are no furloughs at FedEx or UPS
 
brien23 said:
For those getting in to commercial aviation now what the industry looks like in 20 or 30 years from now might not be so good. In January, Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun revealed an open secret in the world of aviation. “I think the future of autonomy is real for civil,”. Now it’s becoming increasingly clear that self-flying planes are coming to commercial aviation. For those who wont get on one, plan on paying a lot more or take the train for travel. Southwest airlines had problems with unhappy passenger problems, but has no shortage of people that want to fly on their planes due to the cheaper price. We would still be flying DC-3 airliners if they were cheaper way to fly than airlines have now and will change again in the years to come. Just remember you are only one medical away from the unemployment line as an airline pilot.
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Boeing certified the Dreamliner in 2011 and that program is still having problems. Boeing doesn’t build airliners anymore. They are a defense contractor. Unfortunately I don’t give much credibility to what the ceo of Boeing thinks about civil aviation. Twenty years is extremely optimistic for that tech to mature.

If the hive mind of Airbus comes out with a solid plan for certification within the next twenty years I MIGHT be a little worried.
 
WDD said:
Don’t forget the military option. As a college grad you’d be a great recruit for pilot training. Certainly checks the box on “not 9-5 corporate job”.
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And don't believe what the Military recruiter tells you unless they put it in writing. Too many stories of individuals joining for the flying programs only to not be able to get onto the military pilot track. -Skip
 
jordane93 said:
Have you taken an intro flight? I’d say that’s your first step to see if you really enjoy it. Then make sure you can hold a first class medical. Good luck on your journey!
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That's it right there, OP. The usual suspects are giving their opinions on the job, but none of this matters until you figure out whether you actually like to fly. Before you lay down some big scratch on a 141 school, take an intro flight and maybe a few lessons to figure out whether it's for you to begin with. My opinion is that if you find that you're not into flying and aviation in general, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. But hey, if you discover that you love it - jump right in, the water is fine. Good luck!
 
Ditto on fly some before dropping big bucks.

The "pro pilot" programs get you there with all the ratings quick for $$$. With the importance of seniority numbers this might be a good idea....But.

Get your PP, then if you like it, go big. I just bought 120 hours of helicopter time at half price from a guy who thought he wanted it but found out he didn't like the grind. Happens more than you'd think.
 
X3 Skier said:
From Forbes. https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...comes-from-the-us-government/?sh=24f599845144

  1. Commercial Airplanes: $45.6 Billion (49%)
  2. Defense, Space & Security Systems: $27.4 Billion (30%)
  3. Global Services: $19.0 Billion (21%)
  4. Boeing Capital Corporation: $ 0.3 Billion (<1%)
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that’s from three years ago.

As of 2023 Boeing moved its headquarters to Crystal City, VA. I’m sure that’s to snuggle up to all the airline executives and stay close to its corporate heritage. But if you read the press release from Boeing regarding the move it was to be positioned “close to customers and regulators.”

Just one year after your source:


IMG_5500.jpeg


This year commercial airplane orders hit big on the books but that was largely due to the United order of 100 787’s and 100 737’s. No doubt that’s going to be real… done deal.

still struggling to get the 737 and 787 program back on the rails. They are no longer innovative in civil aviation and seem to me to be focusing on defense and security growth.
 
mandm said:
Make sure you’re ok to get a first class medical, no prescriptions, hospitalizations, drug/alcohol abuse history. And never drink after drinking. That would put an end to flying or at least cause a lot of problems headache and money.

Then go for it, get an airplane to build hours as well, something that’s cheap to run.
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Drinking after drinking is OK in structured settings, it's driving after drinking that'll scuttle a flying career.

:D
 
If you have a clean history airlines are looking for anyone who can read a checklist and pull the landing gear handle up. If you have anything in your history like a DWI your flying career is very limited.
 
brien23 said:
If you have a clean history airlines are looking for anyone who can read a checklist and pull the landing gear handle up. If you have anything in your history like a DWI your flying career is very limited.
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Man these are unprecedented times. Even that DWI won’t necessarily keep you out of the big 3 at the moment.
 
I think things are already starting to slow. My CFI has had her applications out for 3+ months and still no bites.
 
WDD said:
I think things are already starting to slow. My CFI has had her applications out for 3+ months and still no bites.
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There’s some regionals that are hiring FOs but a lot of them are fat in FOs and short on captains.
 
Yep - she’s applying to the majors, no regionals (yet).
 
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