Pilot’s Erratic Behavior Forces Flight to be Diverted

dell30rb said:
From what I understand, the guy went nuts and then was locked out. Obviously the CVR will tell.

Once he was subdued by the rest of the crew and passengers, an off duty JB captain who happened to be riding as a passenger was able to make his way into the cockpit and worked with the FO. So there was a two man crew.
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interesting.
 
Captain said:
Also, it's a requirement to ALWAYS have two people in the cockpit. Was there an FA up there with the FO and they BOTH locked him out?
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That's not exactly true. There are some circumstances (airlines and/or aircraft) where it is completely fine to have only one pilot in the cockpit in a multi crewed airplane with flight attendants.
 
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AvWeb has more today, including (their claim) that he was ranting about Al Qaeda, etc.

Whether his issue is self-induced or an unknown medical issue, he won't be doing any flying for a living for a long while.

They sell insurance for that... probably advisable for most who've made it beyond the "I could quit this job and fall back on another career" stage.

Unlike some others, I have no emotions about it. It is what it is. He doesn't belong in a cockpit now. "Poor guy" is true, but not going TI change anything for him.

My interest was in how absolutely useless the tests prescribed by Aeromedical are in predicting this type of completely debilitating condition.

I was actually thinking the exact opposite of the poster who said this type of incident would make FAA want to not drop their tests. It's just more evidence that they don't work for the engineered purpose.

It's a good example of why we engineered it such that there's two qualified humans sitting in the front seats in the high-speed aluminum tubing operator biz.

Let's reverse the situation. Captain leaves and the FO flips out and locks him out. Or Captain convinces FO to leave to "check something".

Now THAT is a scenario the system isn't very well engineered for...
 
jesse said:
What did he do that caused the copilot to lock him out? I really know nothing about this. Maybe the copilot locked him out for no good reason and then he simply snapped over it. Hard to say without the CVRs...
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I don't think so. This guy doesn't sound like some long-standing nut-job. He was one of the original Jet Blue pilots and was a Check Airman. IF it was the FO who went rougue, I don't thing the cabin crew would have just gone along with it.
 
matthammer said:
That wouldn't happen even if there weren't a video. There were plenty of reliable witnesses (unlike in the last example you gave). I still am perturbed by the fact that someone recorded it and posted it on youtube, for consumption by the hysteria driven masses. Just imagine if the pilot were someone from your family. How would you feel about the fact that a video of your family member, who was clearly in distress, was posted on the internet for entertainment? Because, lets face it, there's no reason for anyone outside those investigating the incident to watch this video other than to satisfy curiosity (a form of entertainment). I say it's callous and inappropriate.
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I can't see or hear the captain on that video (or anything else of significance for that matter), so I'm having a hard time understanding what the heartburn is over it, other than its being a waste of time to watch.
 
Palmpilot said:
I can't see or hear the captain on that video (or anything else of significance for that matter), so I'm having a hard time understanding what the heartburn is over it, other than its being a waste of time to watch.
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No heartburn. I just think it's unnecessary and insensitive.

Steve Foley said:
And there are an equal number of different accounts from those witnesses.
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You have all of the crew, sans the captain, as well as any medical professionals who examined the captain as witnesses. You also have an off-duty police officer who helped restrain the captain. If there was a medical emergency (and I see little reason to believe there wasn't), then that should be more than enough. Obviously not all of the passengers would be considered "reliable" witnesses.
 
matthammer said:
No heartburn. I just think it's unnecessary and insensitive.
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What's insensitive about a video where you can't see or hear anything? :confused:

In any case, if I engage in inappropriate behavior in front of members of the public and it ends up in the news, I fully expect it to show up on YouTube.
 
In all seriousness, aren't there forms of food poisoning (of the mishandling, not the deliberate sort) that can cause psychotic symptoms?

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
In all seriousness, aren't there forms of food poisoning (of the mishandling, not the deliberate sort) that can cause psychotic symptoms?

-Rich
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Sure, lots of them, moldy rye bread can give you ergot poisoning.
 
Rex Kramer said:
That's not exactly true. There are some circumstances (airlines and/or aircraft) where it is completely fine to have only one pilot in the cockpit in a multi crewed airplane with flight attendants.
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Could you name one? In the air. I'll give away on the ground.
 
Captain said:
Could you name one? In the air. I'll give away on the ground.
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121.543 Flight crewmembers at controls.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, each required flight crewmember on flight deck duty must remain at the assigned duty station with seat belt fastened while the aircraft is taking off or landing, and while it is en route.
(b) A required flight crewmember may leave the assigned duty station—
(1) If the crewmember's absence is necessary for the performance of duties in connection with the operation of the aircraft;
(2) If the crewmember's absence is in connection with physiological needs; or
(3) If the crewmember is taking a rest period, and relief is provided—



 
Rotor&Wing said:
121.543 Flight crewmembers at controls.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, each required flight crewmember on flight deck duty must remain at the assigned duty station with seat belt fastened while the aircraft is taking off or landing, and while it is en route.
(b) A required flight crewmember may leave the assigned duty station—
(1) If the crewmember's absence is necessary for the performance of duties in connection with the operation of the aircraft;
(2) If the crewmember's absence is in connection with physiological needs; or
(3) If the crewmember is taking a rest period, and relief is provided—
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Yeah, that's all true. I'm not saying a pilot CAN'T leave the cockpit. I'm saying that since 9/11 and those 'hardened doors' got installed that if someone DOES leave another human must remain in that pilots stead. Normally it's an FA but a jump seater occupying the seat qualifies.

The reason is with the hardened doors they don't want the flight to hinge on one person remaining alive. If one pilot went to the can and left the other guy by himself and that pilot then died...well, there's no way for the first guy to get back in and the flight is doomed. They just want someone in there (anyone) who can at least open the door to get pilot #2 back on the flight deck.

I have heard of some moderen doors where theres a secret code to open the door that only the crew knows and that might be exempt. Not sure as I've never had a 'secret code' on my door. Just a 7 pin bolt system that would never get opened from the cabin.
 
Captain said:
Yeah, that's all true. I'm not saying a pilot CAN'T leave the cockpit. I'm saying that since 9/11 and those 'hardened doors' got installed that if someone DOES leave another human must remain in that pilots stead. Normally it's an FA but a jump seater occupying the seat qualifies.

The reason is with the hardened doors they don't want the flight to hinge on one person remaining alive. If one pilot went to the can and left the other guy by himself and that pilot then died...well, there's no way for the first guy to get back in and the flight is doomed. They just want someone in there (anyone) who can at least open the door to get pilot #2 back on the flight deck.

I have heard of some moderen doors where theres a secret code to open the door that only the crew knows and that might be exempt. Not sure as I've never had a 'secret code' on my door. Just a 7 pin bolt system that would never get opened from the cabin.
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I have yet to see in any 121 operations FOM a requirement for someone to "occupy" the Captain's seat if he leaves the cockpit under 14 CFR Part 121.543. Neither is there a requirement for a second individual to be in the cockpit for the same situation.

And this is not a OpSpecs requirement either.
 
Huh, okay. It was a requirement at my airline for the above stated reasons. I also jump seated on UAL, B6, and AAL quite a bit and it was their SOP as well so I sorta assumed it was a reg.
 
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Well, just spotted the latest news and the captain was charged by federal authorities with interfering with the flight crew.

Direct quote:

An affidavit unsealed Wednesday states that captain Clayton Osbon told his co-pilots that "things don't matter" during a Las Vegas-bound flight Tuesday. Court documents say Osbon told the plane's first officer that "we're not going to Vegas" and began giving a sermon.
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By "not going to Vegas" did he mean that he was going to crash the plane? Or go somewhere else?
 
Holy cow! That's all I can say...holy cow.


Thank God and Jesus and Allah and Budda too he wasn't an FFDO...
 
If he was, would he carry to the lav or would he have to leave it up front?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Legally it would have been left up front.
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Left up front IN a LOCK BOX.

However, this guy was way past following rules. I'm pretty sure that little rule would have been forgotten as well. FO played it great from that FBI report. That's right up there with the co-pilot who told the terrorist hijackers (back when they just wanted to divert to plane and not smash them into buildings) that 'company procedure' in this circumstance was for one pilot to wear oxygen. The hijackers bought it and the co-pilot then talked freely to ATC using the mask without the hijackers knowing about it.

Anyway, point it, great job by the FO from the looks of it...
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Agreed.

Also let me add another thought. Right now we don't know what happened to the Captain. He may be suffering from something far more serious.

I have a parent right now who's been diagnosed with brain cancer. This is an individual who is bright and articulate, never had a problem with anything. Then one morning he wakes up, can't dress himself and can't even put on his glasses. And yes, you could even say "acting erratic". After getting him to the hospital and an MRI, lesions were found on the brain, and later a cranial biopsy proved stage 4 Glioblastoma multiforme.

Before jumping to conclusions such as "flipped out" or joking about "psych test" let's hope he doesn't have something far more serious, and deadly awaiting him.

Just my .02.
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By the way, I'm sorry. Next time I will be more thoughtful. What happened to your father sounds awful.
 
Jim Logajan said:
The results of medical tests would be more informative.
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I think it was extremely informative - at least we know what approximately transpired on board this aircraft. On the other hand I don't have high hopes for the medical report to provide any real insights, very often there is no clear cut diagnosis and you end up with some sort of a generic mental condition (or privacy reasons may prevent its release).
 
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Captain said:
Left up front IN a LOCK BOX.

However, this guy was way past following rules. I'm pretty sure that little rule would have been forgotten as well. FO played it great from that FBI report. That's right up there with the co-pilot who told the terrorist hijackers (back when they just wanted to divert to plane and not smash them into buildings) that 'company procedure' in this circumstance was for one pilot to wear oxygen. The hijackers bought it and the co-pilot then talked freely to ATC using the mask without the hijackers knowing about it.

Anyway, point it, great job by the FO from the looks of it...
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I've not flown with any FFDO's that kept them in a locked box.
 
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