Picking people up for a Hudson coordidor trip

jpower

jpower

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James
I'm going to be in Hartford, CT this summer, and I have a friend from France who's going to be in New York City for a week with a friend. He was thinking about taking a Heli flight downtown, but I said "hey, I could take you guys down the Hudson in a plane and it would be a longer flight and a lot less expensive!" I'm not sure if it's going to work out or not, but just in case, does anyone have any suggestions on where and how I might be able to pick them up? Specific FBOs maybe? I was thinking White Plains (or maybe Teterboro), because public transportation goes pretty close to those airports. Then I assume I'd have to grab a crew car and pick them up at the train station, but would I get charged a "handling fee" to be able to use the crew car "free of charge?" Or is it really completely free? I'd like to keep costs other than the airplane rental as low as a I can.

Basically, how would you go about doing this? Any specific thoughts or advice?
 
Crew cars are usually free.

You might also want to recommend them to just meet you in hartford (I assume that's where your going to be tacking off from), that way they will be able to fly for longer.
 
TEB or HPN ramp fee is going to get paid whether or not you use the car.
 
jpower said:
I'm going to be in Hartford, CT this summer, and I have a friend from France who's going to be in New York City for a week with a friend. He was thinking about taking a Heli flight downtown, but I said "hey, I could take you guys down the Hudson in a plane and it would be a longer flight and a lot less expensive!" I'm not sure if it's going to work out or not, but just in case, does anyone have any suggestions on where and how I might be able to pick them up? Specific FBOs maybe? I was thinking White Plains (or maybe Teterboro), because public transportation goes pretty close to those airports. Then I assume I'd have to grab a crew car and pick them up at the train station, but would I get charged a "handling fee" to be able to use the crew car "free of charge?" Or is it really completely free? I'd like to keep costs other than the airplane rental as low as a I can.

Basically, how would you go about doing this? Any specific thoughts or advice?
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Yeah, I'd have them meet me at the departure airport if at all possible. My last Hudson tour was with my daughter and her husband (wedding gift). I'm based at FRG but didn't want to have them drive from NJ through hours of NYC traffic to meet me, so I picked them up at CDW (Essex Co.). The flight from FRG to CDW was around 25 mins.

A little more expensive but a lot more convenient. Forget TEB unless you want to pay a $90 ramp/landing fee! CDW is a few miles west, I think I paid $10 to land and they didn't charge me for the second landing when I returned, to drop off my family.
 
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One more thing....
Wear PFD's! You and your passengers.
I recently purchased three, (manual not automatic).

Sospenders Sport Series Manual PFD Vest
 
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Definitely all good thoughts. It's more or less out of the question for them to meet me in Hartford (I'll probably be flying out of Robertson, 4B8, by the way). They don't have access to a car, and taking the train out to CT will take the better part of two hours each way. They'd have to make a whole day out of it, and I don't think that's what they're looking for.

Any specific FBOs at White Plains that I should check into that won't cost me an arm and a leg but will still let me use a car? From the quick looking I've done, Panorama seems to be the best one. According to one Airnav review, there's a $25 fee that's waived with the purchase of 10 gallons of fuel. If I'm going to drop by twice within about an hour, would they want to charge me twice? Or if I fill up once, would they not worry about charging me the ramp fee(s) at all? And are there any fees other than those charged by the FBO?

I've never had to deal with an FBO bigger than a shack, so this is all new to me :).
 
Danbury might be a little easier. .. there is a train to Danbury and the crew transpo is easier and much cheaper.

BDR is an option but they have a landing fee.

HVN works too - again - cheaper than any of the NYC airports - and bug operation at HVN.

There is no easy way to get to HFD - its 100min or so from Grand Central to HVN then you wait for the commmuter train to leave HVN to pick them up at Union Station Hartford before you leave from whereever - its a 3 hour event from NYC whereas HPN is maybe 30 min.

Call Panorama at HPN and speak with the fBO manager and tell him what you want to do and if its ok to buy the 10gallons on the way home - they'll prob just offer to drive you to the station and back to leave the crew car otherwise avail -

Don't do this on a Friday afternoon . .
 
Since your friends are going to be in NYC, I wonder if it would be easier for them (and you) if they "train" out to KFRG (Republic) and launch from there. Getting a clearence might be the tricky part as you need to cross over Kennedy and back.

I'll defer that part to the NY pilots who know the best route and options....
 
CT Arrow said:
Since your friends are going to be in NYC, I wonder if it would be easier for them (and you) if they "train" out to KFRG (Republic) and launch from there. Getting a clearence might be the tricky part as you need to cross over Kennedy and back.

I'll defer that part to the NY pilots who know the best route and options....
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No JFK clearance needed. Stay below the Bravo! I fly at 2500 toward the Tappan Zee, staying clear of the HPN Delta airspace and the Bravo! Join the Hudson north of the Alpine Tower...Study the TAC chart!

I usually get FF from after departing FRG and checkout at the river. NY Approach 125.7

Oh, and don't bust the Bravo:yikes:

..and take the SFRA course as Cap'n Ron suggested!
 
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Probably the easiest option is to have your friends take a train to HPN. Panorama can pick your friends up from the train station and bring them back to the FBO.

I highly suggest requesting a class Bravo clearance at 1500 or 2000 ft up/down the river. You will be above the exclusion traffic and ATC is responsible for separating you from other aircraft at your altitude in the Bravo. Also check to make sure the Yankees aren't playing at home... if the yankee stadium TFR is in effect, you'll be out of luck unless TEB can take you in the delta south of the GWB. I did this once before with the TFR in effect, and it worked, but it wasn't ideal.
 
CT Arrow said:
Getting a clearence might be the tricky part as you need to cross over Kennedy and back.

I'll defer that part to the NY pilots who know the best route and options....
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You can also depart FRG southbound and follow the south shore westbound while talking to NY Approach. Descend below the Bravo before each shelf to a final altitude of 500 ft MSL prior to the JFK inner ring and then climb back up once clear of Rockaway beach. When JFK tower hands you off to EWR tower (127.85) around Rockaway beach or abeam coney island ask them to coordinate a bravo clearance northbound up the river at 1500 or 2000 feet.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Probably the easiest option is to have your friends take a train to HPN. Panorama can pick your friends up from the train station and bring them back to the FBO.

I highly suggest requesting a class Bravo clearance at 1500 or 2000 ft up/down the river. You will be above the exclusion traffic and ATC is responsible for separating you from other aircraft at your altitude in the Bravo. Also check to make sure the Yankees aren't playing at home... if the yankee stadium TFR is in effect, you'll be out of luck unless TEB can take you in the delta south of the GWB. I did this once before with the TFR in effect, and it worked, but it wasn't ideal.
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Very good advice, especially if you don't fly the exclusion that often! Took me awhile before flying in the exclusion, confidently. I've requested the Bravo "Skyline Route" after joining the Hudson southbound (prior to the Alpine Tower) and on occasion, shortly after departing FRG.

Just make sure you're prepared to fly the exclusion if you're denied the Bravo clearance!
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
You can also depart FRG southbound and follow the south shore westbound while talking to NY Approach. Descend below the Bravo before each shelf to a final altitude of 500 ft MSL prior to the JFK inner ring and then climb back up once clear of Rockaway beach. When JFK tower hands you off to EWR tower (127.85) around Rockaway beach or abeam coney island ask them to coordinate a bravo clearance northbound up the river at 1500 or 2000 feet.
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:yeahthat:

Which is my favorite route:yes:

If you're lucky, you can even get the East River Bravo clearance and cross Central Park! I usually request that with EWR tower.

Last time I did that, she cleared me into the Bravo at 1500, just prior to the VZ. Unfortunately, she cleared me before coordinating with LGA. So she called me back and said "unable East River", so I just flew northbound up the Hudson:).
 
The easiest, and cheapest solution is have them meet you at Danbury Airport. They can take the train to Danbury station, you can use the courtesy car from CFM\Arrow to pick them up at the station.

Glenn
 
comanchepilot said:
Danbury might be a little easier. .. there is a train to Danbury and the crew transpo is easier and much cheaper.
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Shepherd said:
The easiest, and cheapest solution is have them meet you at Danbury Airport. They can take the train to Danbury station, you can use the courtesy car from CFM\Arrow to pick them up at the station.
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The trouble I see with Danbury is that it's a 2 hour ride from Grand Central each way, and at that point, it's a whole day for them--not really what they have in mind, I don't think.

comanchepilot said:
Call Panorama at HPN and speak with the fBO manager and tell him what you want to do and if its ok to buy the 10gallons on the way home - they'll prob just offer to drive you to the station and back to leave the crew car otherwise avail -

Don't do this on a Friday afternoon . .
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That's what my current plan is. Of course, this is still decently off in the future, but I figured I should start looking into it sooner rather than later.

The current thinking on the timeframe is sometime in the evening after I get off work. It stays light late enough that we could get there just in time for the golden hour, and my friend is really into photography, so that would be perfect for him. Any reason that time wouldn't be so great?

HPNPilot1200 said:
Probably the easiest option is to have your friends take a train to HPN. Panorama can pick your friends up from the train station and bring them back to the FBO.

I highly suggest requesting a class Bravo clearance at 1500 or 2000 ft up/down the river. You will be above the exclusion traffic and ATC is responsible for separating you from other aircraft at your altitude in the Bravo. Also check to make sure the Yankees aren't playing at home... if the yankee stadium TFR is in effect, you'll be out of luck unless TEB can take you in the delta south of the GWB. I did this once before with the TFR in effect, and it worked, but it wasn't ideal.
Click to expand...

Given your username, it seems like you may know a thing or two about HPN. What are the fees (at HPN and the FBOs) likely to be? Any idea? And is Panorama my best bet, or would one of the others be better?

redtail said:
If you're lucky, you can even get the East River Bravo clearance and cross Central Park! I usually request that with EWR tower.
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I'm plotting to do that...perhaps fly down in the exclusion, then turn around the VZ and call up LaGuardia and ask if I can go up the East River and over the park to rejoin the Hudson, and then stay up in the Bravo until we're out.
 
jpower said:
Given your username, it seems like you may know a thing or two about HPN. What are the fees (at HPN and the FBOs) likely to be? Any idea? And is Panorama my best bet, or would one of the others be better?
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I used to be based there but moved to the west coast last year. Call Panorama and Million Air and see who is cheaper. Honestly I would go to whichever once is the cheapest. Probably Panorama but I'm not sure since it's been a while since I flew in there transient.

If you end up going to HPN, be sure to speak with NY Approach at least 10-20 miles out (it operates similar to a class C field). The tower won't let you into the class D until NY sequences you (even VFR). It's in the letter of agreement between NY TRACON and HPN tower. Coming from the northeast, the appropriate sector is 126.4.
 
jpower said:
I'm plotting to do that...perhaps fly down in the exclusion, then turn around the VZ and call up LaGuardia and ask if I can go up the East River and over the park to rejoin the Hudson, and then stay up in the Bravo until we're out.
Click to expand...

I'd call up Approach earlier than later, and enter the Class B north of the GWB. They (Approach) can hand you off as you go around, and will take care of you the whole way. Coming from HPN down the Hudson, it might work better to head down the Hudson then east over Central Park, heading clockwise around Manhattan, as your pax (or at least front seat passenger) will have a better view. Going that way around, Approach will hand you off to LGA, then to EWR as you get close to lower Manhattan and around the Battery. EWR will hand you back to LGA as you pass Holland Tunnel or Chelsea Piers. LGA will hand you back off to Approach, and sequence you back into HPN.

You can certainly do the exclusion, but on a sunny Friday there will be a great deal of traffic, fixed wing and rotary, and for a first trip up the Hudson I'd advise going in the Bravo. Also, the earlier you're talking to them, the more likely they can coordinate a transit of Central Park.

I did that route yesterday evening...was a bit bumpy with winds around 12G26 and a lot of turbulence from skyscrapers. Still very pleasurable!
 
Mike I said:
I'd call up Approach earlier than later, and enter the Class B north of the GWB. They (Approach) can hand you off as you go around, and will take care of you the whole way. Coming from HPN down the Hudson, it might work better to head down the Hudson then east over Central Park, heading clockwise around Manhattan, as your pax (or at least front seat passenger) will have a better view. Going that way around, Approach will hand you off to LGA, then to EWR as you get close to lower Manhattan and around the Battery. EWR will hand you back to LGA as you pass Holland Tunnel or Chelsea Piers. LGA will hand you back off to Approach, and sequence you back into HPN.

You can certainly do the exclusion, but on a sunny Friday there will be a great deal of traffic, fixed wing and rotary, and for a first trip up the Hudson I'd advise going in the Bravo. Also, the earlier you're talking to them, the more likely they can coordinate a transit of Central Park.

I did that route yesterday evening...was a bit bumpy with winds around 12G26 and a lot of turbulence from skyscrapers. Still very pleasurable!
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Good plan! One I've yet to fly. Think I'll see if I can arrange that next time. Time to try something different:)
 
jpower said:
The trouble I see with Danbury is that it's a 2 hour ride from Grand Central each way, and at that point, it's a whole day for them--not really what they have in mind, I don't think.



That's what my current plan is. Of course, this is still decently off in the future, but I figured I should start looking into it sooner rather than later.

The current thinking on the timeframe is sometime in the evening after I get off work. It stays light late enough that we could get there just in time for the golden hour, and my friend is really into photography, so that would be perfect for him. Any reason that time wouldn't be so great?



Given your username, it seems like you may know a thing or two about HPN. What are the fees (at HPN and the FBOs) likely to be? Any idea? And is Panorama my best bet, or would one of the others be better?



I'm plotting to do that...perhaps fly down in the exclusion, then turn around the VZ and call up LaGuardia and ask if I can go up the East River and over the park to rejoin the Hudson, and then stay up in the Bravo until we're out.
Click to expand...

You might want to do the entire flight in the Bravo as previously suggested, but if you do fly the exclusion southbound, don't call up LGA once you pass the VZ, ask me how I know:rofl:.....call up EWR on 127.85 (south of the VZ. Don't U-Turn over the bridge), you'll be in their airspace IF granted permission into the Bravo. They'll hand you off to LGA somewhere near Governor's Island, on the northbound leg. It's all outlined on the back of the TAC chart, which you're required to have with you, by the way!
 
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Mike I said:
...and a lot of turbulence from skyscrapers. Still very pleasurable!
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Good heads up!

That was quite an eye opener on my first flight up the East River! It was one of those days where you get a LOT of turbulence off of the buildings and bridges!
 
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Just don't do it Friday evening. If you intend to do it on an eve Sat is the least busy.
 
comanchepilot said:
Just don't do it Friday evening. If you intend to do it on an eve Sat is the least busy.
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Yeah, it looks like there's a Yankees game that evening anyway. We're going to the Yankees game Saturday, so that's probably out too, unless I fly the plane in for the day...and on a pretty weekend day I doubt the FBO is going to want the plane sitting around not flying all day. This is why I look forward to owning a plane one day...
 
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