Physician's assistant AME?

judypilot

judypilot

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
1,061
Location
Viola, ID
Display Name
Display name:
Judy Parrish
My family doc is a PA (with some kind of extra suffix; C, I think). She insists she issues FAA medicals. I didn't think a PA could be an AME. I don't want to really grill her (yet), but my medical renewal is coming up early next year and my regular AME retired (I wish they would stop doing that). I don't want a medical certificate that isn't valid. I'm willing to grill her, though, if the AMEs here tell me that there is no way she could be qualified.

I'm also toying with going Basic Med, not because I have any health issues but because I did have a minor health issue a few years ago that, ridiculously, required an inch-high stack of paper to prove I was OK to fly once it was fixed (apparently the word "cure" is not recognized by the FAA). It ticked me off. The other thing holding me back is I live very close to Canada and might want to return there someday in my airplane. But still....anyway, she said that because she can issue the medicals she could also do Basic Med, although she hadn't done one yet.

So the question is, could she really be legal to issue medicals/Basic Med?
 
Why bother with the drama? Use the FAA’s tool to find out if she’s a designee.

FAA-Designee Management System

The Designee Management System, DMS, web-based tool, designed to standardize the management of designees.
designee.faa.gov designee.faa.gov

Search by name or zip code.

ETA: you mentioned BasicMed. For BasicMed, the doc signing it must be a “state-licensed physician”, so you’ll have to see if he/she meets that criteria. Likely, she’s doing the exam and her supervising physician is signing the CMEC, but if your state says she’s a state-licensed physician, then it appears she would be eligible to sign.
 
She cannot do that. If she does and the AME whose office she works for, doesn't do the actual exam, the AME gets decertified.

General Wyrick (deputy Federal Air Surgeon) was asked at hearing by Sen Duckworth: Why cannot APRNs and PA's be AMEs? General Wyrick replied, "Senator, you are a pilot. You clearly understand the difference between 70 hours, 700 hours, and 17,000 hours". The senator dropped her line of questioning.
 
Last edited:
Just FYI aircraft insurance companies are clamping down on basic med more and more. It may make you uninsurable or raise your premiums, especially depending on your age. (assuming you have aircraft insurance)
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Just FYI aircraft insurance companies are clamping down on basic med more and more. It may make you uninsurable or raise your premiums, especially depending on your age. (assuming you have aircraft insurance)
Click to expand...

What is meant by "clamping" down?

Old Republic Insurance does not have a problem with basic med, I just verified at my renewal based on baseless claims I read right here on POA.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I have several older flight students for BFR's (70+) that mentioned that they are unable to do basic med or their insurance will drop them.
Click to expand...

First I've heard of it. Lots of 70+ here fly under basic med and are insurable.
 
bbchien said:
She cannot do that. If she does and the AME whose office she works for, doesn't do the actual exam, the AME gets decertified.

General Wyrick (depty Federal Air Surgeon) was asked at hearing by Sen Duckworth: Why cannot APRNs and PA's be AMEs? General Wyrick replied, "Senator, you are a pilot. You clealry understand the difference between 70 hours, 700 hours, adn 17,000 hours". The senator, dropped her line of questioning.
Click to expand...
I was hoping you would reply. There was an AME in that office, but he retired years ago, and so far as I know the only MD in the office isn't an AME. I did not know I could look it up, so I'm going to do that. Thanks for answering, Dr. B (and for everything else you've done to help me).
 
@TCABM said if she's a state-licensed physician in my state, she can do Basic Med. Here's the definition (sort of) from the Idaho government web page:

"Each physician assistant must be licensed, registered or certified as a physician assistant in any state, territory or jurisdiction of the United States for at least two (2) years before the physician assistant may independently own a practice in this state."

So can she do Basic Med? This seems kind of ambiguous.
 
judypilot said:
@TCABM said if she's a state-licensed physician in my state, she can do Basic Med. Here's the definition (sort of) from the Idaho government web page:

"Each physician assistant must be licensed, registered or certified as a physician assistant in any state, territory or jurisdiction of the United States for at least two (2) years before the physician assistant may independently own a practice in this state."

So can she do Basic Med? This seems kind of ambiguous.
Click to expand...
Licensed as a physician's assistant is not licensed as a physician. They license nurses, "doctors" of audiology, physicial therapists, dentists, and psycologists here too, but that doesn't make them physicians. MDs and DOs and in some goofy cases chiroquactors are physicians.
 
judypilot said:
I was hoping you would reply. There was an AME in that office, but he retired years ago, and so far as I know the only MD in the office isn't an AME. I did not know I could look it up, so I'm going to do that. Thanks for answering, Dr. B (and for everything else you've done to help me).
Click to expand...
I knew of a nurse anesthetist who did something similar. When the anesthesiologist she worked for moved back to The Old Country, she continued to bill as if he was supervising her, and kept her pay and his.

Convicted of Medicare fraud, her punishment was that she was forbidden to take care of Medicare patients for two years. I’m sure she responded with “Oh please don’t throw me in that briar patch!”

I assume there was a fine, but it adds nothing to the story. :)
 
judypilot said:
@TCABM said if she's a state-licensed physician in my state, she can do Basic Med. Here's the definition (sort of) from the Idaho government web page:

"Each physician assistant must be licensed, registered or certified as a physician assistant in any state, territory or jurisdiction of the United States for at least two (2) years before the physician assistant may independently own a practice in this state."

So can she do Basic Med? This seems kind of ambiguous.
Click to expand...
No. She cannot do BasicMed exams. She can assist, but a MD/DO* must conduct the exam (not just sign off on it).

*due to technicalities of the term physican, some states consider Chiropractors to be physicians. Regardless, medical service providers may be in subject to discipline if they operate outside the scope of practice established by their licensing agency.
 
judypilot said:
@TCABM said if she's a state-licensed physician in my state, she can do Basic Med. Here's the definition (sort of) from the Idaho government web page:

"Each physician assistant must be licensed, registered or certified as a physician assistant in any state, territory or jurisdiction of the United States for at least two (2) years before the physician assistant may independently own a practice in this state."

So can she do Basic Med? This seems kind of ambiguous.
Click to expand...

Idaho Board of Medicine states a PA license is not a physician’s license, so the PA is not a state certified physician and cannot fulfill the FAA’s requirement.
 
Not my business but the civil thing to do would be to call it into the hotline. EVERY one of those certificates will be invalidated and each will requrie re-examination. You should save your fellow pilots that pain.

There are 41 AMEs in Idaho, and near your location.....there are only a few possibilities. :(
 
bbchien said:
Not my business but the civil thing to do would be to call it into the hotline. EVERY one of those certificates will be invalidated and each will requrie re-examination. You should save your fellow pilots that pain.

There are 41 AMEs in Idaho, and near your location.....there are only a few possibilities. :(
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the problem. As for reporting her to the FAA, I'm not going to do that. What I AM going to do is write her a letter and tell her that if she's giving out medical certificates, she is risking her patients have their pilot certificates yanked.
 
I went to look up AMEs for my area, and was confounded by having to select between First Class AME, Employee Examiner, and HIMS. What the heck is HIMS? And I don't need a first class medical.
 
Walboy said:
What is meant by "clamping" down?

Old Republic Insurance does not have a problem with basic med, I just verified at my renewal based on baseless claims I read right here on POA.
Click to expand...
Same. Neither Starr or IAT had a problem issuing me with BasicMed.

AOPA recently reported passing 80,000 pilots with BasicMed. Apparently, a lot of people have figured it out. It's a simple and straight forward program, with the added benefit of focusing on staying healthy rather than bureaucratic compliance.
 
judypilot said:
I went to look up AMEs for my area, and was confounded by having to select between First Class AME, Employee Examiner, and HIMS. What the heck is HIMS? And I don't need a first class medical.
Click to expand...
Human Interventional Motivation Study - an FAA program originally for drunk airline pilots but now expanded into being the gatekeeper for various mental health issues.
 
judypilot said:
I went to look up AMEs for my area, and was confounded by having to select between First Class AME, Employee Examiner, and HIMS. What the heck is HIMS? And I don't need a first class medical.
Click to expand...
The First class can do 2nd and 3rd - if they choose to. Some only want to do the 1st class. Call and ask.
 
judypilot said:
I went to look up AMEs for my area, and was confounded by having to select between First Class AME, Employee Examiner, and HIMS. What the heck is HIMS? And I don't need a first class medical.
Click to expand...
This might be obvious, but to be sure before you go firing off emails, if you did the search wrong, it will have returned unuseful results. (For example, if you had one of those specialties checked and the AME in question is NOT one of those.)

You don't need to check any of those 3 boxes to get results. Leave them blank for your query in this case.
 
As a PA I’m bummed to hear this. For 20+ years I have been very aware of my license limitations. When I have a patient looking for basic med I’ll just have one of my attending MD see and evaluate that day.
 
judypilot said:
Yeah, that's the problem. As for reporting her to the FAA, I'm not going to do that. What I AM going to do is write her a letter and tell her that if she's giving out medical certificates, she is risking her patients have their pilot certificates yanked.
Click to expand...
It seems more likely there some confusion happening. How would someone who isn't an AME even access Medxpress applications and generate medical certificates? And if someone was just making up certificates, anyone with one of those certificates would show in the FAA database as having no medical.
 
To follow up: I did write her a letter, but failed to indicate it was confidential. So it was opened by the admin, who called me. We had a very good conversation, and she was quite disturbed to learn that the PA had told me she could issue FAA medical certifications. The admin already knew she could not. I've already switched to another practice, because even to go to the MD in the same practice would be uncomfortable for me, if not for him. But I did learn (a) he's willing to do Basic Med, which is nice to know in case my new doc isn't, and (b) he's also working to become an AME. It would be fabulous if he does that because we sure need more of them in this area, as Dr. B found out. She is also very aware that if the PA has, in fact, managed to issue medical certificates, the pilots in question need to be informed, and will take care of that.

She did say something that suggested the PA might have been confused, because apparently there was some discussion in their office about other commercial medical certifications (e.g., for truckers), but we didn't get into that and, in any case, the admin already knew that an FAA medical isn't like the others and would have mentioned that in those discussions.

In the meantime, I have to drive 90 minutes to get my next FAA medical exam.
 
judypilot said:
I went to look up AMEs for my area, and was confounded by having to select between First Class AME, Employee Examiner, and HIMS. What the heck is HIMS? And I don't need a first class medical.
Click to expand...
If you have to ask, that's probably a good thing.
 
bbchien said:
She cannot do that. If she does and the AME whose office she works for, doesn't do the actual exam, the AME gets decertified.

General Wyrick (deputy Federal Air Surgeon) was asked at hearing by Sen Duckworth: Why cannot APRNs and PA's be AMEs? General Wyrick replied, "Senator, you are a pilot. You clearly understand the difference between 70 hours, 700 hours, and 17,000 hours". The senator dropped her line of questioning.
Click to expand...
Yep, that sure sounds like my/our Senator.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I have several older flight students for BFR's (70+) that mentioned that they are unable to do basic med or their insurance will drop them.
Click to expand...


It might depend on what they're flying. Single engine, fixed gear, fixed prop might be okay, while a complex multi-engine might not be. Or they just might need a new insurance agent.
 
judypilot said:
I'm also toying with going Basic Med, not because I have any health issues but because I did have a minor health issue a few years ago that, ridiculously, required an inch-high stack of paper to prove I was OK to fly once it was fixed (apparently the word "cure" is not recognized by the FAA). It ticked me off. The other thing holding me back is I live very close to Canada and might want to return there someday in my airplane.
Click to expand...

Is the possibility that you might, someday, possibly want to fly into Canada really worth playing FAA medical roulette? The height of that stack of paper is only likely to increase unless you've discovered an anti-aging breakthrough.

If you switched to Basic Med and did, in fact, decide that you simply must visit the Canadians and do so in your own plane, could you take along another pilot with a medical and let them log PIC?
 
X3 Skier said:
Really? I’m 80+ with no Medical of any kind and have both Hull and Liability Insurance.
Click to expand...

Writing new insurance is the issue.

I was a partner in a 5-way partnership on a 6 seat retract. When we had one of our members approach 70, the broker told us to decide on a insurance company and to stick with it going forward as nobody would write new insurance for us going forward. Unfortunately, our insurer left the market 2 years later and we in fact found ourselves uninsurable in the regular market. The underwriters told the broker to resubmit without that member and it went through.... The options were for him to sell or for us to switch to Avemco, the 'insurer of last resort'.
 
Last edited:
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top