Phraseology and radio procedures training

[Muharrem Mane]

Would any of you pros out there be willing to help me improve the aviation radio simulator training tool that I’m developing by providing feedback (constructive hopefully) on how well it works?
I just joined the forum and don’t want to spam everyone here, so will provide the details if needed. Thanks in advance!

 

[Hippike]

I can help!

 

[bobmrg]

Before you get too far into your project, read AIM 4-2-1(b), which says, in part: "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." [my emphasis.] IOW, there is no such thing as approved or proper phraseology. There is commonly accepted phraseology, and that is what instructors teach, but it is in no way required.

Bob Gardner

 

[Muharrem Mane]

I can help!

Thanks Hippike! I’ve devoloped an app-based radio simulator that lets pilots experience what it’s like to talk to ATC, practice talking on the radio, and receive feedback on phraseology, speech rate, speech delay, and an overall radio proficiency score. We are working on developing the iOS version, but have an Android version out there that we’re using to test the concept. The tool is called PlaneEnglish and if you have an Android device you can download it from Google Play. We do have a demo video on our website as well (planeenglish.net). I would welcome any thoughts and feedback on how we’re doing this and how it could be improved!! Thx

 

[Muharrem Mane]

Before you get too far into your project, read AIM 4-2-1(b), which says, in part: "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." [my emphasis.] IOW, there is no such thing as approved or proper phraseology. There is commonly accepted phraseology, and that is what instructors teach, but it is in no way required.

Bob Gardner

I am with you Bob! I do believe though that having a way to practice in a constructive and easy way how to talk on the radio would be of great benefit! I am essentially taking that AIM material and creating an interactive simulation around it!

 

[Hang 4]

I am with you Bob!

You might not want to start with "With you" - If you're new, it's kind of an inside joke.

 

[bobmrg]

Do not limit yourself to the AIM!! Refer to Advisory Circulars 90-42F, 90-66B, 91.73B, and the Air Traffic Control Handbook, FAA Order 7110.65V. The AIM barely scratches the surface.

Bob

 

[bobmrg]

In your simulations you want the ATC end to be letter-perfect, so read the 7110.65V thoroughly. While pilots can use any words they choose to use, controllers are required to use the phraseology in their handbook. They are subject to quarterly "tape talks" with quality control to be sure that they are not getting sloppy....and a poor performance might mean retraining.

Bob

 

[Muharrem Mane]

In your simulations you want the ATC end to be letter-perfect, so read the 7110.65V thoroughly. While pilots can use any words they choose to use, controllers are required to use the phraseology in their handbook. They are subject to quarterly "tape talks" with quality control to be sure that they are not getting sloppy....and a poor performance might mean retraining.

Bob

Thanks Bob!

 

[James331]

Before you get too far into your project, read AIM 4-2-1(b), which says, in part: "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." [my emphasis.] IOW, there is no such thing as approved or proper phraseology. There is commonly accepted phraseology, and that is what instructors teach, but it is in no way required.

Bob Gardner

The biggest issue I see is people overthinking and over stressing about using the radio. If you can speak English, you’re 90% there, the rest will come with time as your get your PPL.

 

[wilkersk]

The biggest issue I see is people overthng and over stressing about using the radio. If you can speak intelligible English, you’re 90% there, the rest will come with time as your get your PPL.

Fixed it for ya!

 

[Hippike]

"poppy uniform... traffic in the batter"

Unfortunately, I have iOS. Let us know when it becomes available in the App Store; I would like to check it out, it looks promising.

One note on the Youtube demo: Saying your call sign before and after the radio calls is annoying and a waste of time. Layout looks clean and easy on the eyes. Look forward to actually trying it out and giving more feedback.

 

[Muharrem Mane]

"poppy uniform... traffic in the batter"

Unfortunately, I have iOS. Let us know when it becomes available in the App Store; I would like to check it out, it looks promising.

One note on the Youtube demo: Saying your call sign before and after the radio calls is annoying and a waste of time. Layout looks clean and easy on the eyes. Look forward to actually trying it out and giving more feedback.

Thanks for taking a look! We have updates some of the phraseology (no callsign at end or readback) and are working on the rest. I’ll keep you posted and thanks again!

 

[gdwindowpane]

Your ATC doesn't talk fast enough. lol.

 

[SkyDog58]

The biggest issue I see is people overthng and over stressing about using the radio. If you can speak English, you’re 90% there, the rest will come with time as your get your PPL.

Yeah, it really isn't anywhere near as hard as some people make it out to be. I see no need for software to help you learn how to tell someone who you are, where you are, and where you want to go. How the hell did we learn to do this before silly apps? We just did it. It basically just comes down to thinking before you speak which is a good practice for life in general. Simple enough.

 

[gdwindowpane]

For me as a student pilot, it isn't so much talking to ATC it's listening to them. I've done a couple of dual cross countries with flight following, with other traffic in the vicinity and have missed a couple of calls to me because they were talking so fast. My CFI picked up on them and said that it will get easier with practice. He also said don't be afraid to let them know that you're a student pilot and they will often slow down for you. I listen to liveatc.net and try to figure out what they are saying.

 

[Hank S]

For me as a student pilot, it isn't so much talking to ATC it's listening to them. I've done a couple of dual cross countries with flight following, with other traffic in the vicinity and have missed a couple of calls to me because they were talking so fast. My CFI picked up on them and said that it will get easier with practice. He also said don't be afraid to let them know that you're a student pilot and they will often slow down for you. I listen to liveatc.net and try to figure out what they are saying.

When I was training, I always used flight following on every flight, and spoke to Approach like this:

"XXX Approach, Skyhawk 55212, student pilot," then whatever else was needed. They were always careful and spoke slowly.

Once I got my certificate, I dropped the "student pilot" part and missed it the first few flights. Using it, however, made talking to ATC easier, and helped me learn to listen for my N number. Give it a try!

 

[Hippike]

Yeah, it really isn't anywhere near as hard as some people make it out to be. I see no need for software

Maybe it wasn't hard for you but for us foreigners English being the second language, it is hard at the beginning. Even thou I took Cambridge Univ. proficiency class back in the UK (and passed with flying colours , coming here and trying to listen/talk to ATC was difficult. I sure would have been grateful for an app like this during my training.

 

[AggieMike88]

but for us foreigners English being the second language, it is hard at the beginning.

I can empathize. My home airport has a very active "academy" training students from Far East and Middle East. Often I hear the mental gears turning as they process not only the instructions the Tower or Ground Controller gave them, but forming the proper response so their mouth says what their brain is thinking.

And they are one of the very few groups of pilots on our field using the AIM suggested "tree" and "five".

 

[Greg Bockelman]

And they are one of the very few groups of pilots on our field using the AIM suggested "tree" and "five".

LOL. You mean “fife”? And do they use fo-wer for four? I mean, if you are going to do it, go all in.

 

[AggieMike88]

LOL. You mean “fife”? And do they use fo-wer for four? I mean, if you are going to do it, go all in.

Yeah... autocorrect got me on that one.

I came across one of their students doing laps at an outlying uncontrolled airport that I also wanted to do TnG's at. While his voice was heavily accented, he was very understandable on the FAA-speak. When he was leaving the pattern to return home, I made sure to compliment him. Learning Eng-gwish, FAA, and Texan all at the same time is a challenge. I wanted him to know he was doing a good job.

 

[Huckster79]

Im giving it a whirl for you, like it so far.

 

[woodchucker]

For me as a student pilot, it isn't so much talking to ATC it's listening to them. I've done a couple of dual cross countries with flight following, with other traffic in the vicinity and have missed a couple of calls to me because they were talking so fast. My CFI picked up on them and said that it will get easier with practice. He also said don't be afraid to let them know that you're a student pilot and they will often slow down for you. I listen to liveatc.net and try to figure out what they are saying.

You’ll definitely get better as you go. And once your CFI isn’t in the right seat yapping away you will get VERY good at hearing your calls every time.