phone wiring

jesse

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Jesse
I ordered phone service and DSL and was informed that my lines were on. I plugged a phone in and no joy. None of the jacks worked.

After some stumbling around inside and outside I finally found where all the phone wiring was. On the outside of the house there is a small junction box with the phone company's incoming line and all the wires from the house. It was a MAJOR mess. The box's ability to create a good connection between the phone company line and 7 feeds from the house wasn't there. As a temporary solution I just soldered the wires and it works great.

Obviously the above is pretty ghetto. I went to home depot expecting to find some outdoor punch panels but didn't. I've done some googling with little luck as well.

Anyone know where I can find an outdoor punch panel designed to tie many connections into one circuit? All of these solutions I'm seeing with nuts that you're supposed to try and wrap all the wires around is too ghetto for my liking.
 
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jesse:

First things first; is the telco NID (Network Interface Device) in good order? You should have a place there to which you can plug a phone, and it works fine.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...e&gbv=2&aq=2&oq=network+interface+&aqi=g4g-m1

If that is not there, the phone company owes you such a thing; their responsibility ends at the NID.

Next, are you saying that all the phone home runs are routed outside?

Ideally, you want a common location inside (basement, closet, something like that), where they all come.

If its a mess, you might just get a 66 block and punch 'em all down. Otherwise, you could use one of a number of home-grade junction boxes.

Show us what you're working with now.
 
jesse:

First things first; is the telco NID (Network Interface Device) in good order? You should have a place there to which you can plug a phone, and it works fine.
There is no telco box like that. There is a phone line coming out of the ground.

sccutler said:
Next, are you saying that all the phone home runs are routed outside?

Ideally, you want a common location inside (basement, closet, something like that), where they all come.
Yes. It ****es me off. The previous dumbass owner did the same thing with all the cable lines too. Punched out of the house with them to join them all outside.

He more or less finished EVERY spot possible in the basement. So outside really is the only place to do it. At this point it'd be a lot of work to undo his doing..So I might as well just keep it outside.

sccutler said:
If its a mess, you might just get a 66 block and punch 'em all down. Otherwise, you could use one of a number of home-grade junction boxes.
I'd like to punch them all down. But I'd like to do that in some sort of outdoor sealed punch block..which I can't find.
 
jesse:

First things first; is the telco NID (Network Interface Device) in good order? You should have a place there to which you can plug a phone, and it works fine.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...e&gbv=2&aq=2&oq=network+interface+&aqi=g4g-m1

If that is not there, the phone company owes you such a thing; their responsibility ends at the NID.

Next, are you saying that all the phone home runs are routed outside?

Ideally, you want a common location inside (basement, closet, something like that), where they all come.

If its a mess, you might just get a 66 block and punch 'em all down. Otherwise, you could use one of a number of home-grade junction boxes.

Show us what you're working with now.

What Spike said. I'd avoid any outdoor junction blocks if at all possible. Perhaps you can put a 66 Block inside the wall that the external connections are on and then make a single run from there to the NID. It only takes a tiny bit of corrosion to cause rectification of any RF picked up by the lines and that will lead to all sorts of noise issues. The punch down (IDC) connections are supposed to be gas tight but if you put one through enough moisture laden large temperature swings you will get corrosion.
 
Jesse -
With Bell South/AT&T, everything outside the physical structure of the house belongs to the telco. May want to give them a call and get an opinion. Good luck!
 
You'll have to do what I did in my first house: Bakelite box from RadioShack or Digi-Key, with a bakelite terminal strip inside. Fourteen connectors long oughta do it. Then sel up the cover with some RTV, put two grommets in the bottom- one for the telco in, the others for all the lines out.

Looked pretty professional, and worked well the entire time we were there.....
 
Well -- I know having it outside sucks. The problem is that moving it inside would be a *****. The area where it punches out is completely finished and all that crap is inside the walls.

I'm just trying to figure out the best way to make it work outside.
 
Jesse -
With Bell South/AT&T, everything outside the physical structure of the house belongs to the telco. May want to give them a call and get an opinion. Good luck!

Not quite: it's telco up to the demarc (demarcation point), and homeowner after that. Homeowner wiring can be outside the house.

There should be a box with a demarc in it: that should have a phone jack into which you plug the house wiring. The demarc has a lightning protector in it, and it should be grounded. If there's no lightning block or ground, Telco should install same.

As for the connection to house wiring, you've got several options. You can get punch blocks at various electronics houses. They do make 'em in outdoor enclosures. You can also get crimp-on butt splices (commonly used for alarm wiring) that work quite well. Coupled with stretch-type tape, it can be very, very waterproofed.

At the house in San Antonio, the demarc was outside. My house wiring connected to terminals inside the Telco box, and I had a punchblock in the water heater room. From there, I ran wiring to each room. I also ran a separate run of Cat 5 cable to each phone jack location and installed Cat 5 jacks. i terminated those to cat 5 jacks under the indoor stair case.
 
You might try calling a security alarm parts provider in your area, where alarm companies go for parts. They may carry a box like that.
 
The GAI-Tronics stuff lasts forever. We used it offshore.
 
The box on the right has the phone line coming in from the ground and then all the jacks from the house going into it
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Here is where it comes out of the house
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Here is where the main line comes out of that spagetti box, under the deck, and into the ground.
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Some general pictures of the house. Didn't take pictures of any of the rooms as they're not really setup.
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First - nice house!

Second... call the telco and tell them that you need a new NID demarcation point, as your old one seems to be in awful shape. HAve them put that on the outside of the house, then replace the existing termination point for the spaghetti with an outdoor junction box. Ideally the junction strip should have an RJ connection to the NID, so you can unplug the "house" from the NID and plug in a phone/test set. Then it's just a matter of sorting out all the home runs from the spaghetti and terminating them at the junction box.
 
Congrats on the house. May it be filled with happiness.

As for the wiring... I used to make a lot of money from that sort of wiring, back when DSL was more popular around here. Nowadays, cable and FIOS are the two major games in town: The phone company won't even install DSL if FIOS is available at the location, and they're trying to force their existing DSL customers to upgrade to FIOS as it's rolled out.

But back in the old days, I used to get calls from people who had signed up for DSL using Verizon's self-install service, but were getting speeds not much better than dialup. Invariably, the problem was their house wiring. Verizon actually did a pretty good job of not selling faster service than they could provide at a location.

Usually, the locations with problems had wiring from the year of the flood, with many extensions spliced off of one ancient wire (not even Cat-3 sometimes) as it meandered through the house. Good enough for POTS, but not DSL. I would get the telco to install a new NID if needed (which was usually the case), then I would install a DSL/POTS splitter a few inches downstream, and install the DSL model inside the home, as close to the splitter as possible. (Most of the NIDs on private homes are installed on the outside of the the houses around here.)

Typically, the wire length between the NID and the DSL/POTS splitter was about six inches, and the wire length between the DSL/POTS splitter and the modem was less than five feet. From the modem it went to a router, and the rest of the interior wiring was Ethernet (and/or wireless, in more recent years).

This setup made it sort of a pain when the customer had to reboot the DSL modem, especially if I mounted the modem in the basement (which was usually the case). But it dramatically increased the DSL speed and quality the rest of the time.

Alas, I haven't done one of these highly-profitable jobs in years. DSL is on its way out around here as FIOS is getting lit up all over the place. Because Verizon desperately wants to get out of the copper POTS/DSL markets, they're trying to force people into FIOS -- even to the point of pulling down the copper connections to the poles once a location upgrades. But many customers are resisting, much to Verizon's annoyance. I was one of them.

I used to have a Verizon DSL connection as a backup (my primary connection was and remains Time-Warner cable). But at 17,600 feet from the DSLAM, the best Verizon could manage on the DSL was 1.4 Mb/s in fair weather, and zilch during a bad storm. I was okay with that, however, because it was cheap and just a backup connection.

But when the FIOS was lit up in my neighborhood, they tried to force me to upgrade to one of their all-in-one packages. Like many existing DSL and POTS customers, I declined the upgrade, mainly because I didn't want or need the TV service. Also, the ONT is big, ugly, and consumes more power than Verizon admits to. I've tested the draw at as high as 40 watts on client accounts, although Verizon says it's closer to 20. Their ugly Actiontec router draws another 60 - 80 watts and doesn't support WPA (at least, not the last time I checked). So we're talking about total power consumption of between 80 - 120 watts, which isn't insignificant at ConEd's exorbitant power rates, plus having to broadcast an obsolete, insecure WEP connection.

So I said, "No thanks" to the upgrade. Verizon responded by downgrading my DSL to 768 based on wire distance, doubling the price, and notifying me that they would soon be discontinuing DSL support in my neighborhood. I responded by canceling the Verizon POTS line altogether and installing VOIP on the cable, with failover to my cell phone if the cable goes down (which has only happened once or twice, and only for a minute or two each time) at a savings of about $180.00/month.

The cable companies have not been standing idly by during all of this. As FIOS rolls out, the cable companies have responded by upgrading service levels on existing cable accounts. In my case, when the fiber was lit up in my neighborhood, my cable Internet service was upgraded to 14 MB/s at no increase in price. One of their techs told me that for a few dollars a month more and a ride to Flushing to pick up a new modem, I can get 30 Mb/s.


speedtest.jpg



So Time-Warner customers have benefited from FIOS: The cable service has dramatically improved since FIOS came to town. I regularly get actual download speeds in the 2 to 3 Mb/s neighborhood, despite running four VOIP lines and as many as six computers on the connection. The reliability has also improved dramatically, with outages being downright rare these days.

The only casualty, it seems, is venerable DSL, which Verizon is dropping like a bad habit. I'll kind of miss it. It's a quirky enough technology to be interesting to learn about and work with, and it generated a lot of business for me once upon a time.

-Rich
 
Jesse -- really nice house, but you're right, that wiring looks like Hades.

To echo a few -- a call to the TelCo is free. They'll come out, and if it's on their side fix it, if not, well you'll get a handshake and probably some good advice. It's worth it as a first step. At least you can bounce some ideas off the tech while he's there.
 
Jesse -- really nice house, but you're right, that wiring looks like Hades.

To echo a few -- a call to the TelCo is free. They'll come out, and if it's on their side fix it, if not, well you'll get a handshake and probably some good advice. It's worth it as a first step. At least you can bounce some ideas off the tech while he's there.

Around here, "buying lunch" for the tech often reminds them of all sorts of extra stuff they have laying around in the trunk, as well.

(Hey, this is NYC.)

-Rich
 
Yeowza. That wiring sucks.

But the house looks nice otherwise!
 
Well -- I know having it outside sucks. The problem is that moving it inside would be a *****. The area where it punches out is completely finished and all that crap is inside the walls.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1) I have yet to own a house where the name of the previous owner hasn't turned in to a curse word.

2) From the picture, it looks like the phone company installed the junction block when the house was built and hasn't been back since (that's the "old" style that you don't see much any more)

3) If you had a sawzall you could get to the stuff inside the walls.

4) You have a car in the garage???? You don't have enough stuff.

5) Nice looking house.
 
First - nice house!

Second... call the telco and tell them that you need a new NID demarcation point, as your old one seems to be in awful shape. HAve them put that on the outside of the house, then replace the existing termination point for the spaghetti with an outdoor junction box. Ideally the junction strip should have an RJ connection to the NID, so you can unplug the "house" from the NID and plug in a phone/test set. Then it's just a matter of sorting out all the home runs from the spaghetti and terminating them at the junction box.

Jesse:

Nice house.

I echo Tim's comments regarding Telco installing a new NID. If you get a second line at the house, they'll have to... ;) I always separated my DSL line from the phone liine to keep it clean. Have cable now, much better than DSL.
 
Nice looking house, Jesse.

If I were you (which I'm not, but if I were), I'd go from the NID (once you figure out either where it is, or you get the TelCo to provide it), and rerun your own homeruns. Figuring out that spaghetti is going to be more work than it is worth. Bonus points if you can run a single line into one of the rooms in your home and get a 66 going there.

From there, you can run lines through the attic (I know, I know) and feed phone lines to anywhere you want them to go to.

If you want an external punch down, I would suggest getting a 12" x 12" PVC box, which you can find at Lowe's or Home Depot and mount the 66 in it. It should already have a hole to run the lines in/out of, and you can seal it with some sort of waterproof dope. It will look professional, and it will serve the purpose nicely.

BTW, I love your backyard, that porch is fantastic.
 
1st question: why the hell are you getting phone service?

I like the house too!
 
Tony makes a good point. I have no idea if the phone lines in my house work - never had a house line. Don't intend on it, either.

Good catch, Tony.
 
I would have the phone company install a new NID to start. Then I would unfinish the spot in the basement were the wire exit the house. Then figure which wires are still used or are needed and install a puchout block. Idealy it would beter to replace the wires in the house but with a finished basement that sound like to much work.

Or just get cable internet and use you cell phone. Who need a land line anyway. Wait you cable wiring does not look any better.

Nice looking house.
 
1st question: why the hell are you getting phone service?

I like the house too!

Tony makes a good point. I have no idea if the phone lines in my house work - never had a house line. Don't intend on it, either.

Good catch, Tony.
Well. I'm on call 24x7 for work -- and it provides another way of contact. Cell phones go dead, sometimes you forget it on silent, etc.

This way I can use a Google Voice number and have it ring my office, home, and cell phone simultaneously. I went with DSL so that I could reduce the cost of having to add the line. Plus I was pretty annoyed with Time Warner as they've been unable to run a reliable DNS server for at least a year now in this area.

With Time Warner I would have had 7 megabit down and 512 up. With Windstream I have 6 down and 768 up. To me the up was worth the reduction in down. Plus I could upgrade to some crazy high number but see no point. I do most of my work in a simple ssh terminal.
 
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Well there goes that idea. Ok, fine, you need your home number. :)
 
I would sell the house and buy one with better wiring.

:D
 
I would sell the house and buy one with better wiring.

:D
After all the house looking I did -- I'm pretty convinced -- you can't buy a house and not find several surprises later. I'm sort of glad that I ended up buying the one that was in the best overall shape.
 
After all the house looking I did -- I'm pretty convinced -- you can't buy a house and not find several surprises later. I'm sort of glad that I ended up buying the one that was in the best overall shape.

That's a very nice looking place - congratulations! If the phone and cable wiring is the only thing jacked up then you did very well, that's a pretty trivial item.


Trapper John
 
Agreed - buying the one in the best overall shape has you much better off, even if it means that you've got a bit more mortgage to pay. The time and money it saves you will be well worth it.

I call my house a nice Toyota. It's reliable, even though it's boring. Plus the fact that it's in good shape with an efficient heat pump and has good insulation saves me a bunch of money in the winter (my heating bills are quite low).
 
After all the house looking I did -- I'm pretty convinced -- you can't buy a house and not find several surprises later. I'm sort of glad that I ended up buying the one that was in the best overall shape.

No, you are absolutely correct.

From what I see, you did a great job. No wonder you wanted that deal to go through so badly.
 
If you want an external punch down, I would suggest getting a 12" x 12" PVC box, which you can find at Lowe's or Home Depot and mount the 66 in it. It should already have a hole to run the lines in/out of, and you can seal it with some sort of waterproof dope. It will look professional, and it will serve the purpose nicely.
:yes: Definitely if you want to keep the wiring outside, put in on indoor-type block, then seal it in a box!
 
LOL! You've just made your first POS* (Previous Owner's Sh... uh, stuff) discovery. My first POS discovery was smoking, smoldering insulation in the attic over a bathroom where the PO spliced in a sconce light. Light screwed to the drywall with drywall screws, wire punched thru the drywall thru a screwdriver sized hole, and spliced to another run via "scrape the insulation away, wrap a lead around each leg and cover in 1 wrap of cheap, bad, old electrician's tape." I was fortunate that my new purchase didn't turn into a pile of ashes in the first week.

Unfortunately, I'm sure I'll leave legacy stuff that will cause the next owner to say "What the HELL was he thinking?" :)
 
In the Jaguar world, we referred to this as stuff done by the DPO - Dip**** Previous Owner. Of course, sometimes it was just the DF - Dip**** Factory. That's what you get when the workers who assemble your cars drink warm beer before, during, and after work. And people wonder why the British space program never got off the ground. The astronauts said "No way in hell are we flying in something with a Lucas electrical system!"
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Now that's one that I've not seen yet. My interior dimmer switch did that. The headlights haven't flicker or short out on me yet, but I did have one of the taillight burn-out detectors fail on me (which, ironically, doesn't tell you that a light is burned out, but does deactivate the light in question).
 
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