Phoenix Contract Student pilot wanna have flight without log it into log book.

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Logan Zhang

Filing Flight Plan
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Sakura haruki
Currently I'm a contract student in UND, we have the training time limitation for private pilot license, yet I'm not feel very good about my short field landing now,but for FAA's regulations,I have to log my flight time if it is for training, so I'm asking if there is anybody can me take to a Cessna 172 to have some flights without log it in the logbook,of course I would pay for all the cost of flight even some compensation for you,and also you can log all of the time as your PIC time(if that could
works),I need maybe 10hours flight.
 
And anyone can tell me is this legal or not,I mean just have some landings but not regard that as a flight training so I may not log them into log book.
 
I’m not following... why is logging your flight time mandatory?
 
Well, if you don't log your training time, it doesn't count. I don't believe that it's against regulations to not log your time, you are only wasting your own money, as that time cannot be counted toward any rating. I flew with several private pilots before I had a ticket, and even passably landed a Bonanza. The time wasn't loggable for me, but the experience was great.
I didn't log any time the last ten years I owned my Skyhawk; it was just repetition of the same daytime low-wind CAVU hour, anyway. (Though now I'm going through the airplane logs to get those hours, for my future plans.)
If the training time limitation is due to monetary concerns, I see no reason why they wouldn't let you pay your own way for extra flight.
 
This is easy. Just book a CFI and plane, and then "forget your logbook" every time you fly. But don't forget your checkbook or cash.

Now then, your obvious troll premise is that someone cares how much training you receive. Please provide the UND policy on max allowable training from any source.
 
Logan Zhang said:
And anyone can tell me is this legal or not,I mean just have some landings but not regard that as a flight training so I may not log them into log book.
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Have never heard of "training time limitation for private pilot license" so maybe this is some internal UND rule?

In any case, I believe regulations require CFI's to log any training time they give, but I'm sure you could find some who would sit in the plane and "let you practice without teaching" and not log it if you paid their teaching rate. Additionally, there's no requirement for you to log any time flying with a non-CFI, but most would probably be hesitant to do it, since their license and insurance would be on the line if you bent anything.
 
mcmanigle said:
In any case, I believe regulations require CFI's to log any training time they give,
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I don't believe this is true. They have their own log of training given, no need to force the customer to have it. Example, refresher flight but not FR or IPC, they can log the instruction and you may or may not need it.
 
Ravioli said:
This is easy. Just book a CFI and plane, and then "forget your logbook" every time you fly. But don't forget your checkbook or cash.

Now then, your obvious troll premise is that someone cares how much training you receive. Please provide the UND policy on max allowable training from any source.
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well,UND doesn't care about that,my company does...
 
I'm very confused
(A) what is a "contract student"
(B) why would there be a limitation on how much training you can receive?

10 hrs flying is not a small deficit, different story than "just need an hour or two with another pilot to hone my technique"

I'm lost, sorry, can't help.
 
Tantalum said:
I'm very confused
(A) what is a "contract student"
(B) why would there be a limitation on how much training you can receive?

10 hrs flying is not a small deficit, different story than "just need an hour or two with another pilot to hone my technique"

I'm lost, sorry, can't help.
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contract student means i already signed a contract with airlines,and they pay for my training,as long as i can finish all the training with limited time ,i could become a airline pilot directly,even i just get 250 total flight hours by that time.
 
Tantalum said:
I'm very confused
(A) what is a "contract student"
(B) why would there be a limitation on how much training you can receive?

10 hrs flying is not a small deficit, different story than "just need an hour or two with another pilot to hone my technique"

I'm lost, sorry, can't help.
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they company gives us the limitation,not FAA or UND,so as long as it is not logged into the log book, it will be fine.
 
Logan Zhang said:
they company gives us the limitation,not FAA or UND,so as long as it is not logged into the log book, it will be fine.
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So we are starting our flying career being completely above board and not trying to cheat the system?

Nice...

o_O
 
smv said:
So we are starting our flying career being completely above board and not trying to cheat the system?

Nice...

o_O
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ummm...I don't mean that...but I'm not a American,I don't what to do in this situation,so wanna hear what you guys say...
 
Sounds like he's on a contract from a foreign country and if he doesn't meet the performance requirements he might "time out" or something. Get a second logbook, have the pilot at the other flight school sign THAT logbook. Just make sure the other flight school is OK to train you if you're a foreign national. You may need to go through the TSA process a second time. For those thinking about doing it. Make sure you understand the legal issues if you're training a foreign national without going through the process. It can be a very, very expensive fine.
 
Logan Zhang said:
ummm...I don't mean that...but I'm not a American,I don't what to do in this situation,so wanna hear what you guys say...
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If you are concerned, talk directly to the flight school chief about it and if you don't feel like you are doing well with the short field landings, go re-read the procedures several times, fly the numbers precisely to an aim point, and if need be, ask for a more experienced instructor to help you out. I hope their success rate at finishing pilots in the contract hours is important to them. If only milking the airline for the full amount of hours is their goal, you've got other issues.

Edited to add: I like your intentions. Getting more practice, being willing to pay for it, looking for experience, and being willing to admit you need help is a GOOD thing. Making sure you do it legally is also important for your own career.
 
If you've got money and a visa to be in the U.S., I don't think there's anything stopping you from privately renting a 172 and engaging a CFI (choose one that has been approved for instructing foreigners).

Suppose you paid the CFI and the aircraft rental from your own pocket. And suppose that you enter those flights in your logbook, but you don't ask your employer to pay for them. I don't see anything wrong with buying that additional training from your own pocket, unless your employer doesn't like it.
 
RyanShort1 said:
If you are concerned, talk directly to the flight school chief about it and if you don't feel like you are doing well with the short field landings, go re-read the procedures several times, fly the numbers precisely to an aim point, and if need be, ask for a more experienced instructor to help you out. I hope their success rate at finishing pilots in the contract hours is important to them. If only milking the airline for the full amount of hours is their goal, you've got other issues.

Edited to add: I like your intentions. Getting more practice, being willing to pay for it, looking for experience, and being willing to admit you need help is a GOOD thing. Making sure you do it legally is also important for your own career.
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OK,thank you for the suggestion!
 
NoHeat said:
If you've got money and a visa to be in the U.S., I don't think there's anything stopping you from privately renting a 172 and engaging a CFI (choose one that has been approved for instructing foreigners).

Suppose you paid the CFI and the aircraft rental from your own pocket. And suppose that you enter those flights in your logbook, but you don't ask your employer to pay for them. I don't see anything wrong with buying that additional training from your own pocket, unless your employer doesn't like it.
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none of my classmates have done that before...so better to find a way not log the time in.
 
It sounds like the company will pay for the training as long as the training doesn't take more than X hours (ie they will wash the student out if they take too long)

A foreign student receiving training at a different school is going to run afoul of TSA regs aren't they? I think what this person wants is an "extended demo flight" from a nearby school, and on this demo flight, they practice many many short field landings in a C172. And maybe they repeat this demo flight until the landings are very good. :D

If the second school insists on logging the time, they will certainly have a small 8-page pilot logbook or so to place THAT time into, separate from the main logbook.
 
Personally, if someone is going to pay me anything for flight instruction, then I'll record it in both my logbook and yours (and sign it). The reason is, the rules about "what I can accept money for" are different, depending on whether I'm exercising flight instructor privileges or not. If I'm not, then there are lots of rules about things you are and are not allowed to "hire" me for (you'll learn about them at some point in your training, if not already!) -- and I would prefer to keep out of any weird grey areas. If I am instructing, then your logbook entry is part of the paper trail that we both understood that it was an instructional flight and therefore payment is OK. But that's just me and my preference.

If no money changes hands, then it might as well just be a "fun flight" where nothing is logged and you learned something and that's a different story.

Do you have a "student buddy'" at the flight school, who would let you sit in the back seat of the plane during his or her lessons? Sometimes you can learn a lot by listening and watching someone else. It's "bonus" instruction time, that you cannot log and doesn't count towards anything.
 
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schmookeeg said:
It sounds like the company will pay for the training as long as the training doesn't take more than X hours (ie they will wash the student out if they take too long)
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They probably want pilots with the aptitude to learn the basic processes and procedures within X hours. They figure you cannot pass the PPL level within X hours then being able to manage a multi-million dollar aircraft with 100s of lives at stake may not be your thing.

This pilot was uncomfortable with the aircraft and felt they needed additional study:

 
smv said:
So we are starting our flying career being completely above board and not trying to cheat the system?

Nice...

o_O
Click to expand...
The contract students are on a foreign airline program and are given a fixed number of hours to successfully complete the training. If they don't finish, for whatever reason, they're dumped out of the program. There's little or no remedial training provided. The student needs more practice with landings that aren't part of the regular program. Think of it as additional lab work or tutoring in chem or physics class, but outside the official class policies.
 
schmookeeg said:
It sounds like the company will pay for the training as long as the training doesn't take more than X hours (ie they will wash the student out if they take too long)

A foreign student receiving training at a different school is going to run afoul of TSA regs aren't they? I think what this person wants is an "extended demo flight" from a nearby school, and on this demo flight, they practice many many short field landings in a C172. And maybe they repeat this demo flight until the landings are very good. :D

If the second school insists on logging the time, they will certainly have a small 8-page pilot logbook or so to place THAT time into, separate from the main logbook.
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Thanks for the suggestion!
 
murphey said:
The contract students are on a foreign airline program and are given a fixed number of hours to successfully complete the training. If they don't finish, for whatever reason, they're dumped out of the program. There's little or no remedial training provided. The student needs more practice with landings that aren't part of the regular program. Think of it as additional lab work or tutoring in chem or physics class, but outside the official class policies.
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yeah. that's what I'm talking about.
 
smv said:
They probably want pilots with the aptitude to learn the basic processes and procedures within X hours. They figure you cannot pass the PPL level within X hours then being able to manage a multi-million dollar aircraft with 100s of lives at stake may not be your thing.

This pilot was uncomfortable with the aircraft and felt they needed additional study:

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maybe that's also part of the reason,i dunno,yet the only thing I'm not very comfortable with is the short field landing...
 
Okay, for the purpose of the FAA and everyone in the U.S., it would be okay if you just buy a second log book. Present that to your privately hired CFI, and allow that CFI to sign that one.

Don't present that second log book to your employer.

Maybe your employer won't like that. But from my point of view it's perfectly fine to try to learn and improve yourself, and if you want to pay out of your own pocket to improve your own learning that's okay.
 
smv said:
They probably want pilots with the aptitude to learn the basic processes and procedures within X hours. They figure you cannot pass the PPL level within X hours then being able to manage a multi-million dollar aircraft with 100s of lives at stake may not be your thing.
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Our soon-to-be military pilots commonly learn to fly on their own dime so they can pass military flight school. Should they be drummed out? Neil Armstrong and Alan Shepard too, were a couple of 'em I'm pretty sure.
 
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If I’m on vacation and left my logbook at home, but end up bumming around an airport and decide to find a CFI and get an hour or two of tail-wheel or acro or just rental check-out, can’t I just get a signed “sticker” from the CFI for the hours to put in my logbook when I get back home (or not put in my log book as the OPs case may be)? I would probably need to show my PPL to the CFI (and the OP his TSA credentials to the CFI). Something I’ve thought about when the family wants to go to the outlet malls during a vacation trip!
 
dtuuri said:
Our soon-to-be military pilots commonly learn to fly on their own dime so they can pass military flight school. Should they be drummed out?
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Did they sign a contract to the contrary?

o_O
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
If I’m on vacation and left my logbook at home, but end up bumming around an airport and decide to find a CFI and get an hour or two of tail-wheel or acro or just rental check-out, can’t I just get a signed “sticker” from the CFI for the hours to put in my logbook when I get back home (or not put in my log book as the OPs case may be)? I would probably need to show my PPL to the CFI (and the OP his TSA credentials to the CFI). Something I’ve thought about when the family wants to go to the outlet malls during a vacation trip!
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The OP has to do more than “show...his TSA credentials”. There needs to be a TSA training request/authorization specific to the flight school. More than likely that’s going to be the show stopper.
 
dtuuri said:
Our soon-to-be military pilots commonly learn to fly on their own dime so they can pass military flight school. Should they be drummed out? Neil Armstrong and Alan Shepard too, were a couple of 'em I'm pretty sure.
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An employer can attach whatever restrictions they’d like to the training they’re paying for and/or employee qualifications. It appears that this was done, and that the OP was aware of the restrictions.
 
smv said:
Apparently you have not read every post in this thread. Specifically #12.

;)
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I read it. I don't see where it says he has a total time "limit". In fact, if you read #12 literally, he's saying there's a 250 hour minimum. He can start "directly" after he logs 250 hrs. (But that isn't how I read it either.)
 
dtuuri said:
I read it. I don't see where it says he has a total time "limit". In fact, if you read #12 literally, he's saying there's a 250 hour minimum. He can start "directly" after he logs 250 hrs. (But that isn't how I read it either.)
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o_O Really?

Logan Zhang said:
as long as i can finish all the training with limited time
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