Pessimist view of GA

paflyer said:
Why do you think this is the "magic bullet?" If anyone turns physics on its head and creates energy storage density on par with hydrocarbons, what make you think it won't be as expensive as petro?
Click to expand...

It may not be any cheaper, but the airplanes will be so much better in terms of reliability, performance, comfort, simplicity of operation and maintenance. It really will revolutionize the personal GA plane and the product will be so compelling that it will draw people back to GA. If we could couple that with an overhaul of the ATC system to make IFR flying dirt simple, we would really have something. There will likely even be a cottage industry to convert the surviving legacy fleet to electric.

I can't say it will be cheaper, it may not, but it has the potential to be. Like was mentioned here already, you could take advantage of free solar charging while you're gone. At the rate most of us fly, we would return to the hangar each time with a free full tank of gas so to speak. Of course this assumes we're talking about batteries. The solution we seek may actually be fuel cells in which case we would still be buying some sort of fluid, or maybe gas.
 
Phoenix said:
Ticketing the crap out of kids forced that change. Oh and the insurance surcharges that go with the tickets. Cars have become oppression machines. As to valuing the old ones, car guys will lucky if any of that junk makes it to the museum. Buddy of mine(mid 40's) was just happily ruminating on the idea that many boomers have bought their last new cars so in the near future if they want to sell any new cars they are going to have to make them better. Or less stupid at least.
Click to expand...

And what would a "better" less "stupid" car look like to you? Seriously the automotive industry is all ears right now. This is a problem they are actively thinking about for the not very distant future. They see the handwriting on the wall that the market for cars is going to collapse and competition is going to be fierce for survival.

If you don't speak up, they won't build these "better" cars. My guess is, that with the younger generations perfectly happy with somebody else driving them around everywhere, a self driving car that looks like a Disneyland tram cab with WiFi and power ports is all you really would want.
 
Dav8or said:
It may not be any cheaper, but the airplanes will be so much better in terms of reliability, performance, comfort, simplicity of operation and maintenance. It really will revolutionize the personal GA plane and the product will be so compelling that it will draw people back to GA. If we could couple that with an overhaul of the ATC system to make IFR flying dirt simple, we would really have something. There will likely even be a cottage industry to convert the surviving legacy fleet to electric.

I can't say it will be cheaper, it may not, but it has the potential to be. Like was mentioned here already, you could take advantage of free solar charging while you're gone. At the rate most of us fly, we would return to the hangar each time with a free full tank of gas so to speak. Of course this assumes we're talking about batteries. The solution we seek may actually be fuel cells in which case we would still be buying some sort of fluid, or maybe gas.
Click to expand...

Call me a pessimist, but unless there's a radical breakthrough in physics and semiconductors that is a pipe dream. Hardly anyone not in the Southwest has solar panels on their HOUSES that produce more than token amounts of electricity, and some places TAX that!


Dav8or said:
The solution we seek may actually be fuel cells in which case we would still be buying some sort of fluid, or maybe gas.
Click to expand...

Aren't we doing that now?
 
paflyer said:
Until everyone is charging their electric cars, airplanes, lawnmowers, RVs, trucks, etc., etc....
Click to expand...

It's true. They will have to raise the price of electricity to pay for expansion and of course highway taxes will have to be collected in another fashion. So there is a window of opportunity right now for early adopters to drive cheaply with regards to fill ups. Sadly the cost of the hardware to do so is prohibitive for most and when it does become more affordable, the cost of energy will go up.

There is no free lunch I guess.
 
Dav8or said:
And what would a "better" less "stupid" car look like to you? Seriously the automotive industry is all ears right now. This is a problem they are actively thinking about for the not very distant future. They see the handwriting on the wall that the market for cars is going to collapse and competition is going to be fierce for survival.

If you don't speak up, they won't build these "better" cars. My guess is, that with the younger generations perfectly happy with somebody else driving them around everywhere, a self driving car that looks like a Disneyland tram cab with WiFi and power ports is all you really would want.
Click to expand...

Further evidence of the no-responsibility, reliance on others, nanny state mentality that has been drilled into the heads of our youth by state indoctrination centers, er, I mean, public schools.
 
Dav8or said:
It's true. They will have to raise the price of electricity to pay for expansion and of course highway taxes will have to be collected in another fashion. So there is a window of opportunity right now for early adopters to drive cheaply with regards to fill ups. Sadly the cost of the hardware to do so is prohibitive for most and when it does become more affordable, the cost of energy will go up.

There is no free lunch I guess.
Click to expand...

Or dinner and breakfast!
 
paflyer said:
Call me a pessimist, but unless there's a radical breakthrough in physics and semiconductors that is a pipe dream. Hardly anyone not in the Southwest has solar panels on their HOUSES that produce more than token amounts of electricity, and some places TAX that!
Click to expand...

OK. Pessimist! Like I said, the solution may not be batteries at all. Also why couldn't there be a huge break through in solar panels?? Are you saying that mankind has learned all there is to learn? At present, photovoltaic solar panels are only about 18% efficient (last I heard anyhow) at capturing and utilizing the the total power we receive from the sun. I think there is big room for improvement.

Aren't we doing that now?
Click to expand...

Yeah we are. My point about electric airplanes isn't necessarily some scheme to cut the cost of flying in half or anything, it's to make flying better and take GA to the next level. The costs may end up being much the same, nobody knows at this point. Basically, the electric plane will be a better plane, but no guarantee that it will be any cheaper.
 
Dav8or said:
Basically, the electric plane will be a better plane, but no guarantee that it will be any cheaper.
Click to expand...

Agree with that.


But if we can't get costs down, GA will always be a marginal activity.
 
paflyer said:
Until everyone is charging their electric cars, airplanes, lawnmowers, RVs, trucks, etc., etc....
Click to expand...

No, because there would always be solar power to compete with the grid, either on the wings or over the hangar, parking area or at home. Also, I don't know the numbers, but my gut feeling says that all transportation combined will not put a dent in the overall energy consumption, which includes home and business HVAC, industrial use, street lighting, etc. I am also guessing that today's turbojets will be the last to go all-electric, and that will lower transportation consumption since they are the biggest guzzlers.
 
Last edited:
RotorDude said:
No, because there would always be solar power to compete with the grid, either on the wings or over the hangar, parking area or at home. Also, I don't know the numbers, but my gut feeling says that all transportation combined will not put a dent in the overall energy consumption, which includes home and business HVAC, industrial use, street lighting, etc. I am also guessing that today's turbojets will be the last to go all-electric, and that will lower transportation consumption since they are the biggest guzzlers.
Click to expand...


You definitely "don't know the numbers". Just go hang out near a coal fired power plant and watch the train cars arrive and depart sometime. Especially in winter.
 
RotorDude said:
No, because there would always be solar power to compete with the grid, either on the wings or over the hangar, parking area or at home. Also, I don't know the numbers, but my gut feeling says that all transportation combined will not put a dent in the overall energy consumption, which includes home and business HVAC, industrial use, street lighting, etc. I am also guessing that today's turbojets will be the last to go all-electric, and that will lower transportation consumption since they are the biggest guzzlers.
Click to expand...

Worldwide electric consumption (2011, US EIA)

Commercial 12%
Industrial 51%
Residential 18%
Transportation 20% (this is not electric cars!)
 
denverpilot said:
You definitely "don't know the numbers". Just go hang out near a coal fired power plant and watch the train cars arrive and depart sometime. Especially in winter.
Click to expand...

Natural gas dwarfs coal.
 
FormerHangie said:
There do seem to be a lot of these sorts of threads popping up lately.

If you look at the FAA Airmen statistics, you'll see that student pilots skew young, and private pilots skew older. The largest age group for student pilots is 16-29, and the largest age group of private and sport pilots is in the 50-69 age group. The number of student pilots falls off quickly once you get past age 30, there are more student pilots aged 20 to 24 than there are 40 and over, and the private pilots aged 50-69 make up 45% of all private pilots. As these folks age out of flying, the generations that will replace them are considerably smaller. It's also likely that the number of ATPs will exceed the number of private ticket holders by the start of the next decade.

From what I can tell, there are two motivations to learning to fly, either it thrills you to be aloft, or you want to use the airplane to go somewhere, and I suspect the go somewhere group is the larger of the two. So, who's a good candidate for that group? Someone who has a sufficient income to maintain a share of an airplane, and has a fairly substantial travel budget, a desire or reason to travel regionally on a regular basis, and has the schedule flexibility to do so. I'm thinking that's not all that many people.

I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the pilots that used to fly back in the 80's and 90's were either business owners or were self employed. Unfortunately, the share of GDP in this country that is going to small or recently formed companies has been declining since about 1980, just about the same time that aviation began its decline. http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2014/05/declining-business-dynamism-litan. As an employee, I'm expected to be in the office between 8 and 5:30 all week, and I can tell you that even if we had the money to go out of town on a frequent basis, I'm just not interested in doing so. I get home Friday night between 6:00 and 6:30 most weeks, and I have no interest in packing up to go somewhere. I suspect there are lots of others who feel the same way.

Most people don't have the need for GA, and it's too expensive for them anyway.
Click to expand...

And I thought I was Pessimistic.:cheers:
 
Bottom line, guys and gals, for a multiplicity of reasons, there is just less interest.

Cheers
 
RotorDude said:
Presumably because you'd be able to recharge your plane's batteries using solar panels, either on your wings, or nearby. But even today's electric grid has far cheaper energy prices than gasoline, and that ratio is unlikely to change much.
Click to expand...

In addition, can you imagine the reduction in costs per hour if your engine reserve was cut by 90% or so?

So, let's say that a 172 costs $100/hr wet now

If $15 is engine reserve and that goes to $5 due to being a simple electric, long live motor

Annuals will be cheaper (simple engine inspection, airframe would be unchanged)

Insurance, tie downs, unchanged

Fuel going for $5/gallon*9 gallons = 45/hr to electric at $10/hr

I've easily just cut the cost per hour of that plane by $45/hr and it's a bit better than that due to the reduced annual cost.

so now, that plane rents for $55/hr wet. We don't have any carb icing, we don't have to do mixture/throttle, we don't have to check and fill oil, we don't have to sump fuel...

it goes on and on. If we really did get this, it would be a game changer for 90% of the small fleet of folks that are flying a couple hours at a time, or trainers.

This would in turn cut the cost of training and hamburger runs, which would make this a lot easier for more people to start, and keep up with.
 
MIFlyer said:
In addition, can you imagine the reduction in costs per hour if your engine reserve was cut by 90% or so?

So, let's say that a 172 costs $100/hr wet now

If $15 is engine reserve and that goes to $5 due to being a simple electric, long live motor

Annuals will be cheaper (simple engine inspection, airframe would be unchanged)

Insurance, tie downs, unchanged

Fuel going for $5/gallon*9 gallons = 45/hr to electric at $10/hr

I've easily just cut the cost per hour of that plane by $45/hr and it's a bit better than that due to the reduced annual cost.

so now, that plane rents for $55/hr wet. We don't have any carb icing, we don't have to do mixture/throttle, we don't have to check and fill oil, we don't have to sump fuel...

it goes on and on. If we really did get this, it would be a game changer for 90% of the small fleet of folks that are flying a couple hours at a time, or trainers.

This would in turn cut the cost of training and hamburger runs, which would make this a lot easier for more people to start, and keep up with.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't you need a battery reserve? Last i looked as set of batteries for a Prius were around $3K. Pls change out by an A&P. (So for an airplane, with FAA/Insurance overhead, $30K. I kid, but not much.) That will add a little back in. Not as much as you took out, but still.

John
 
jsstevens said:
But wouldn't you need a battery reserve? Last i looked as set of batteries for a Prius were around $3K. Pls change out by an A&P. (So for an airplane, with FAA/Insurance overhead, $30K. I kid, but not much.) That will add a little back in. Not as much as you took out, but still.

John
Click to expand...

No way you'd pull off lead acid in a plane. You'd be looking at LIP or LFP... and they aren't cheap. And unless it's LFP, there's some real risk. And the FAA certified version ain't going to be any cheaper. Add to that the costs around it and we'll be looking at a ridiculous cost that likely won't be cheaper than small Lycomings for quite some time.
 
Making non-ethinal mogas availible would do almost as much to cut hourly cost, without any of the technical challenges of all electric.

Many existing planes can fly for $25/hr in mogas if you can find it.
 
Last edited:
As if things were not bad enough now the student pilot certificate change is Under a new rule released today by the FAA, student pilots will no longer get their student pilot certificate from an aviation medical examiner. Instead, they can apply in person at a FSDO, through a designated pilot examiner, with a Part 141 flight school or a CFI. The TSA will vet the application, and then a plastic certificate will be sent to the student by the Civil Aviation Registry. Earlier proposals to charge a $22 fee and require a photo have been withdrawn. Student pilots still will have to visit an AME to acquire a separate medical certificate. The new rule takes effect April 1.
 
mkosmo said:
No way you'd pull off lead acid in a plane. You'd be looking at LIP or LFP... and they aren't cheap. And unless it's LFP, there's some real risk. And the FAA certified version ain't going to be any cheaper. Add to that the costs around it and we'll be looking at a ridiculous cost that likely won't be cheaper than small Lycomings for quite some time.
Click to expand...

Are Prius batteries lead-acid? Hmm. I agree you'd need LI or something like it. Energy to weight would kill you otherwise. Those battery packs don't last forever and you'd need some reserve for that.

John
 
Aviation has two problems...

#1 Marketing - There is very little outreach to non-pilots. Most aviation company advertising budgets focus on aviation magazines, video and websites. That's preaching to the choir, not getting converts.

#2 Threads like this - Do you think McDonalds would have much business if their advertising was, "Hey, our factory processed, nutritionally neutral, slop on a bun and flat cola is just what you need!" Just stop it! Who wants to join a bunch of losers?
 
Smutny said:
Aviation has two problems...



#1 Marketing - There is very little outreach to non-pilots. Most aviation company advertising budgets focus on aviation magazines, video and websites. That's preaching to the choir, not getting converts.



#2 Threads like this - Do you think McDonalds would have much business if their advertising was, "Hey, our factory processed, nutritionally neutral, slop on a bun and flat cola is just what you need!" Just stop it! Who wants to join a bunch of losers?
Click to expand...


Cirrus and now icon has done a great job addressing #1 by advertising in lifestyle/"rich guy" media. As an unfortunate side effect I think it has caused the lay person to think they must spend $250 on an icon to get into aviation, and $600k on a cirrus to get any utility with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tmpendergrass said:
Cirrus and now icon has done a great job addressing #1 by advertising in lifestyle/"rich guy" media. As an unfortunate side effect I think it has caused the lay person to think they must spend $250 on an icon to get into aviation, and $600k on a cirrus to get any utility with it.
Click to expand...

And it's working, a number of Cirrus and Icon sales are first time buyers. I wouldn't look at that as a bad thing!

It should be duplicated by other manufacturers in other venues. If it works...
 
I suspect those who've been in the aviation biz for any length of time are survivors and virtually allergic to doing anything new or different.
 
jsstevens said:
Are Prius batteries lead-acid? Hmm. I agree you'd need LI or something like it. Energy to weight would kill you otherwise. Those battery packs don't last forever and you'd need some reserve for that.

John
Click to expand...

Prius batteries for the most part have always been NiMh and have never been lead acid. They now are using Li-Ion like everybody else.
 
Smutny said:
And it's working, a number of Cirrus and Icon sales are first time buyers. I wouldn't look at that as a bad thing!



It should be duplicated by other manufacturers in other venues. If it works...
Click to expand...


1st time buyers are great, but we need more 1st time buyers outside the "1%".



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Smutny said:
#2 Threads like this - Do you think McDonalds would have much business if their advertising was, "Hey, our factory processed, nutritionally neutral, slop on a bun and flat cola is just what you need!" Just stop it! Who wants to join a bunch of losers?
Click to expand...

we're not "McDonald's". we are people wondering why Macdonald doesn't do as much business as they used to. We're just speculating.

WE can say that we believe it's because McDonalds does have less healthy choices. We are consumers looking around wondering why mcd's is empty.

if we truly wanted to help Macdonalds, we would analyze, like here.
 
Tmpendergrass said:
1st time buyers are great, but we need more 1st time buyers outside the "1%".
Click to expand...

I don't understand the problem.

New starts are new starts, and if it works and can be replicated, then why dwell on who's starting and get out there and replicate what works!
 
Smutny said:
I don't understand the problem.



New starts are new starts, and if it works and can be replicated, then why dwell on who's starting and get out there and replicate what works!
Click to expand...


Because GA is turning into a plaything for he rich an famous, not something the average joe can afford.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm getting old, and crotchety. I'll preface this with it applies most strongly to the East and West coasts and areas of high population density. Don't come back with "here at Abysmal Field none of that goes on. I'm sure there are still places out in the boondocks where things are like they were in the 1950s and 1960s.
I've been flying since 1952 as a kid propped up on a stack of parachutes so I could see out the windows, and as a teen in the mid 1960's. I'll offer a few observations and opinions, and honestly, I don't care if you agree or disagree. I'm not going to prove, justify or debate anything I say.
When I was a kid (pre-teen), I could hop on my bike and ride 10 miles down to the Seaplane base. I could walk up to planes, talk to people, ask questions and sit on the dock or in the shack or the hangers and make a nuisance of myself. If I was really ambitious, I could ride to 5 different airports on my bike. They are all gone now.
I made such a nuisance of myself, Jim the Hermit started having me do odd jobs. Everything from cleaning toilets to cutting grass, washing planes, anything I was physically capable of doing, and a bunch of stuff I had to grow into. By the time I went into the Air Force I was a pretty good mechanic and top notch at covering planes. I would work all week in the summer to get a lesson on Sunday. I was making $.32 (thirty-two cents) an hour back then. Minimum wage.
You can't do any of that anymore. The fences are too high, there are labor laws, and honestly, most pilots chase anyone off because they don't want to be bothered or there's security that's being violated.
Truism: You can't love something, really love something, until you can eat, live, breathe and sleep with it until it becomes part of you. Kids don't have that opportunity any longer.
Here is where the conspiracy theory comes in.
The FAA is not your friend, the government is not your friend, the AOPA and other "fraternal" organizations are not your friend and (probably) none of the aviation magazines give a tinkers damn about people who fly little airplanes. Look at where the bulk of their money comes from. They don't like little airplanes and they really don't like people who fly little airplanes, but there is still enough money to be made in the little airplane business it makes the feds and private industry schizophrenic trying to cope with it. I have a close friend who is a lawyer for the top floor at the FAA. When he drinks too much, he claims the government would love it if every GA pilot in the country was grounded. Less trouble, more profits for the people who are getting paid. No details here. Figure it out for yourself. These are the guys who are trying to regulate toy airplanes now. And guns, and what you can and can't say out loud.
We have allowed people to built up walls, walls that are becoming insurmountable, around something I have been in love with since I was a little kid.
Each morning I get up and it gets a little worse.
We're thrilled when we can find a 60 year old plane in flying condition, we wet ourselves when a manufacturer comes to us with the same engines they have been building since the 1930s except its painted red. OMG it's painted red!
Some other questions you might want to ask yourself:
POA is a pretty big group of pilots/people. Where are the FAA reps, the Cessna people, the Lycoming people? The magazine people?
I used to be a pretty good scientist, and the science discussions I take part in are FILLED with pretty much everyone that matters in those fields. From the guys in the labs to the manufacturers making the equipment. I report a problem or announce a new programming tweak, and in hours everyone in the industry knows about it and is talking about it. See any of that going on here?
Pilots used to matter. Not so much anymore.
That's all. I'm tired, and have a bad cold and haven't been able to leave the house for 6 days. I'm going upstairs and terrorize my wife with my nano-quadcopter.
 
Last edited:
Geebus you have even the slightest trace of flying available and people might start thinking they are free or asking why aren't they more free. Can't have people thinking such horrible things.
 
Smutny said:
I suppose we could all just sit here and ***** about it behind our keyboards.

Or you can go out and friggin' do something about it! This is NOT rocket science!

Share the magic of flight with people.

https://www.facebook.com/AviatorFlightTraining/videos/1113665028657726/

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ry-flights-for-free/eaa-eagle-flights-program
Click to expand...

I applaud your efforts! It's a weird situation though. I'm sure cheerleading exists in golf and motocross and stuff (other shrinking activities that capture our time); but it's weird that it's necessary. If this is so cool, why doesn't it sell itself?

Motocross has been shrinking here in MN too, compared to when I was younger. Why? Are dirt bikes really that much more expensive? Maybe. Maybe we have less cash for such pursuits? Is it the dangerous aspect that is shared with general aviation that turns people away? (Sorry, am I not supposed to mention that GA contains any danger?)

I don't mean to be a negative nancy... but the people I've taken flying have found it "neat". OK, now what are we going to do? Not super interested. It was cool, yada yada, but not "wow that was just fantastic I need me some of that". When I tell people how much it costs to rent, how fast you can go and how far, that pretty much kills any interest they may have had. Yah, my friends aren't rich.

I actually do have a friend with money, but he dropped out before getting his private, and multiple attempts to draw him back in have failed miserably. I had hoped eventually we could maybe go in on a plane together.

So what to do? I'm not trying to "*****", but wish I had a good answer to getting GA (and frankly, motocross) back into the "mainstream", and getting popular.
 
Tmpendergrass said:
Because GA is turning into a plaything for he rich an famous, not something the average joe can afford.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I hate to break it to you, but largely GA has always been a plaything for the rich. There have been brief periods when upper middle class people could enjoy GA in greater numbers then now, but it has pretty much always been out of reach for the "average joe"... unless that average joe was particularly motivated. The same is true today. People with modest means can fly and take to the skies if they really, really want to. That has not changed.
 
Shepherd said:
I'm getting old, and crotchety. I'll preface this with it applies most strongly to the East and West coasts and areas of high population density. Don't come back with "here at Abysmal Field none of that goes on. I'm sure there are still places out in the boondocks where things are like they were in the 1950s and 1960s.
I've been flying since 1952 as a kid propped up on a stack of parachutes so I could see out the windows, and as a teen in the mid 1960's. I'll offer a few observations and opinions, and honestly, I don't care if you agree or disagree. I'm not going to prove, justify or debate anything I say.
When I was a kid (pre-teen), I could hop on my bike and ride 10 miles down to the Seaplane base. I could walk up to planes, talk to people, ask questions and sit on the dock or in the shack or the hangers and make a nuisance of myself. If I was really ambitious, I could ride to 5 different airports on my bike. They are all gone now.
I made such a nuisance of myself, Jim the Hermit started having me do odd jobs. Everything from cleaning toilets to cutting grass, washing planes, anything I was physically capable of doing, and a bunch of stuff I had to grow into. By the time I went into the Air Force I was a pretty good mechanic and top notch at covering planes. I would work all week in the summer to get a lesson on Sunday. I was making $.32 (thirty-two cents) an hour back then. Minimum wage.
You can't do any of that anymore. The fences are too high, there are labor laws, and honestly, most pilots chase anyone off because they don't want to be bothered or there's security that's being violated.
Truism: You can't love something, really love something, until you can eat, live, breathe and sleep with it until it becomes part of you. Kids don't have that opportunity any longer.
Here is where the conspiracy theory comes in.
The FAA is not your friend, the government is not your friend, the AOPA and other "fraternal" organizations are not your friend and (probably) none of the aviation magazines give a tinkers damn about people who fly little airplanes. Look at where the bulk of their money comes from. They don't like little airplanes and they really don't like people who fly little airplanes, but there is still enough money to be made in the little airplane business it makes the feds and private industry schizophrenic trying to cope with it. I have a close friend who is a lawyer for the top floor at the FAA. When he drinks too much, he claims the government would love it if every GA pilot in the country was grounded. Less trouble, more profits for the people who are getting paid. No details here. Figure it out for yourself. These are the guys who are trying to regulate toy airplanes now. And guns, and what you can and can't say out loud.
We have allowed people to built up walls, walls that are becoming insurmountable, around something I have been in love with since I was a little kid.
Each morning I get up and it gets a little worse.
We're thrilled when we can find a 60 year old plane in flying condition, we wet ourselves when a manufacturer comes to us with the same engines they have been building since the 1930s except its painted red. OMG it's painted red!
Some other questions you might want to ask yourself:
POA is a pretty big group of pilots/people. Where are the FAA reps, the Cessna people, the Lycoming people? The magazine people?
I used to be a pretty good scientist, and the science discussions I take part in are FILLED with pretty much everyone that matters in those fields. From the guys in the labs to the manufacturers making the equipment. I report a problem or announce a new programming tweak, and in hours everyone in the industry knows about it and is talking about it. See any of that going on here?
Pilots used to matter. Not so much anymore.
That's all. I'm tired, and have a bad cold and haven't been able to leave the house for 6 days. I'm going upstairs and terrorize my wife with my nano-quadcopter.
Click to expand...

Jeez... just because you're old and crotchety doesn't mean you have to give up on paragraphs!! :rolleyes:
 
StevieTimes said:
I don't mean to be a negative nancy... but the people I've taken flying have found it "neat". OK, now what are we going to do? Not super interested. It was cool, yada yada, but not "wow that was just fantastic I need me some of that". When I tell people how much it costs to rent, how fast you can go and how far, that pretty much kills any interest they may have had.
Click to expand...

What you are experiencing and up against, is the "been there done" that problem. Way back in the day, taking flight and traversing the planet above the ground was a special and exclusive thing. Today everybody flies... on the airlines. Whole generations of kids have grown up since infancy flying back and forth across the country. The low cost, discount carriers have made it so that even people living near the "poverty" line in the US can get on a plane and see Grandma.

In short, nearly everyone has experienced a take off, cruise with views out the window and a landing. When you take somebody for a ride, you really aren't offering anything that new, just a different perspective and and inside view to the inner workings of what it is to pilot an airplane.

Most people really don't want to drive. They would rather just ride and have a cocktail while they look out the window. Once they find out the limitations and the cost of flying GA, there is little to no use for it for them. Probably 1 in 50 are actually truly interested in the actual piloting aspects and want to drive themselves.

Don't beat yourself up. It is what it is.
 
Dav8or said:
Jeez... just because you're old and crotchety doesn't mean you have to give up on paragraphs!! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Formatted fine here as paragraphs. Not sure why you couldn't see them. He didn't put two carriage returns after each, only one, but it looked fine on the mobile/tapatalk interface.
 
denverpilot said:
Formatted fine here as paragraphs. Not sure why you couldn't see them. He didn't put two carriage returns after each, only one, but it looked fine on the mobile/tapatalk interface.
Click to expand...


It didn't format that well in a browser, but now that I'm looking at it on Tapatalk it is easier to read.

That does not mean that I agree with it, though.
 
Shepherd said:
Truism: You can't love something, really love something, until you can eat, live, breathe and sleep with it until it becomes part of you.
Click to expand...

"We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body Clarice?"
 
Motocross:hairraise: Mom's have worked so hard to kill that and you want to bring it back?:rolleyes: Dirtbikes are done at least in the Northeast. Nowhere to ride, even against the law on your own property in many cases. Really it is a problem of suffrage, let them vote and they vote safety over freedom. Everytime.
StevieTimes said:
I applaud your efforts! It's a weird situation though. I'm sure cheerleading exists in golf and motocross and stuff (other shrinking activities that capture our time); but it's weird that it's necessary. If this is so cool, why doesn't it sell itself?

Motocross has been shrinking here in MN too, compared to when I was younger. Why? Are dirt bikes really that much more expensive? Maybe. Maybe we have less cash for such pursuits? Is it the dangerous aspect that is shared with general aviation that turns people away? (Sorry, am I not supposed to mention that GA contains any danger?)

I don't mean to be a negative nancy... but the people I've taken flying have found it "neat". OK, now what are we going to do? Not super interested. It was cool, yada yada, but not "wow that was just fantastic I need me some of that". When I tell people how much it costs to rent, how fast you can go and how far, that pretty much kills any interest they may have had. Yah, my friends aren't rich.

I actually do have a friend with money, but he dropped out before getting his private, and multiple attempts to draw him back in have failed miserably. I had hoped eventually we could maybe go in on a plane together.

So what to do? I'm not trying to "*****", but wish I had a good answer to getting GA (and frankly, motocross) back into the "mainstream", and getting popular.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top