Passenger pick up logistics

joycem137

joycem137

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Novi, MI
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Robin
Just got my checkride scheduled for July 8th and started making plans to pick up some friends for a sunset flight after the test, assuming all goes well.

It occurred to me that I don't really have good knowledge about how to handle logistics around picking up passengers from airports. I'm talking about meeting one of my friends at either KSQL or KOAK after my checkride, and I don't have the foggiest idea where to look up where to send a passenger to wait for me, or if they even can. And once I do so, will they be able to get access to the field, or will I have to walk to them after I park the plane? Where do you get this information?
 
At KSQL, ask Ground to direct you to transient parking. It's on the bay side of the field, about halfway down, next to the terminal building and the Sky Kitchen. You'll have to shut down and let your passengers in the gate.

Good luck on your checkride.

I'd suggest an early morning flight for your first post-checkride flight. The aircraft is likely to be much heavier than you're used to, and you need to minimize the variables. It's been very windy in the late afternoon.

Your passengers will prefer the smoother morning ride anyway.

Once you figure out how the aircraft handles near gross, then go to town. You're using 9ZL, right? It's fine at max gross, but it will climb noticeably slower than you're used to, and the stall speed will be a little higher (but if you're like most people, you've been approaching on the fast side anyway).

Don't load the Zucchini (3ZK) to max gross. It's a dog. Don't hesitate with 53G (and max on that thing is 2550 lb, over 1000 lb useful load!).
 
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MAKG1 said:
At KSQL, ask Ground to direct you to transient parking. It's on the bay side of the field, about halfway down, next to the terminal building and the Sky Kitchen. You'll have to shut down and let your passengers in the gate.

Good luck on your checkride.
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Foreflight has taxiway diagrams that show most of the information about where *I* should go to pick up passengers, but where I'm uncertain is where to go to find information on what to tell *my passengers* about where to go, particularly if I'm unfamiliar with the airport.

It seems like little airports would be pretty easy to figure out, but big airports...
 
Meet them at the Sky Kitchen. There are signs directing to it from the north side access road.

Have them park here:

http://goo.gl/maps/2Ucnz

[I guess that's a little further than halfway down -- do a short field landing in calm wind, or a nice long one with no brakes in the usual wind]
 
MAKG1 said:
At KSQL, ask Ground to direct you to transient parking. It's on the bay side of the field, about halfway down, next to the terminal building and the Sky Kitchen. You'll have to shut down and let your passengers in the gate.

Good luck on your checkride.

I'd suggest an early morning flight for your first post-checkride flight. The aircraft is likely to be much heavier than you're used to, and you need to minimize the variables. It's been very windy in the late afternoon.

Your passengers will prefer the smoother morning ride anyway.

Once you figure out how the aircraft handles near gross, then go to town. You're using 9ZL, right? It's fine at max gross, but it will climb noticeably slower than you're used to, and the stall speed will be a little higher (but if you're like most people, you've been approaching on the fast side anyway).

Don't load the Zucchini (3ZK) to max gross. It's a dog. Don't hesitate with 53G (and max on that thing is 2550 lb, over 1000 lb useful load!).
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I won't touch the Zucchini, period... That thing is a nightmare. I think it has more squaks than any other plane in Sundance's fleet. I flew it once and never again. Have you seen the latest squaks about full up elevator causing arcing?

I've actually reserved 53G for the late afternoon after the checkride. I've flown with passengers before in that one and have at least a tiny bit of familiarity with how it flies with passengers.

As for the time of day, that's a good point. I'll keep an eye on the winds, and if they're more than moderate, I'll postpone the celebratory flight for the next morning.
 
There was a time when that Zucchini was well maintained -- I did my first solo in it.

Then the HSI crapped out while I was flying it to Salinas (VFR -- annoying, not an emergency), and it's been a POS ever since.

Not all squawks are created equal, but that arcing one is pretty nasty.

Even if it gets fixed, the aircraft has a STOL kit and is draggy as hell. It's not fun flying a cross-country at 95 KIAS with the throttle wide open. I switched to 9ZL after the solo and did my checkride in it. That will do 100 KIAS at 2500 like it's supposed to.

53G has gotten a lot better over the last year. It used to have constant problems with the nosegear going flat.
 
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joycem137 said:
......I'll postpone the celebratory flight for the next morning.
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Good luck on the check ride.......

I would plan on the celebratory flight the next day... You will be mentally drained and a good nights sleep will help...IMHO.....:yes:
 
N801BH said:
Good luck on the check ride.......

I would plan on the celebratory flight the next day... You will be mentally drained and a good nights sleep will help...IMHO.....:yes:
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Oh yes, oh yes. Ben is not kidding. In fact, consider having someone drive you home.

If my checkride writeup is still floating around the club, read what I had to say about nerves. If it's not (and you're interested) I'll send you a copy. I did my checkride with Tom Hornak in Jan. 2012.
 
MAKG1 said:
Oh yes, oh yes. Ben is not kidding. In fact, consider having someone drive you home.

If my checkride writeup is still floating around the club, read what I had to say about nerves. If it's not (and you're interested) I'll send you a copy. I did my checkride with Tom Hornak in Jan. 2012.
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Celebratory dinner and drinks instead? :)

You know what, I'll plan to do both, but keep in the back of my mind that I should seriously contemplate my state when coming back from the checkride, and cancel things as appropriate if I'm in a wonky state.
 
MAKG1 said:
There was a time when that Zucchini was well maintained -- I did my first solo in it.

Then the HSI crapped out while I was flying it to Salinas (VFR -- annoying, not an emergency), and it's been a POS ever since.

Not all squawks are created equal, but that arcing one is pretty nasty.

Even if it gets fixed, the aircraft has a STOL kit and is draggy as hell. It's not fun flying a cross-country at 95 KIAS with the throttle wide open. I switched to 9ZL after the solo and did my checkride in it. That will do 100 KIAS at 2500 like it's supposed to.

53G has gotten a lot better over the last year. It used to have constant problems with the nosegear going flat.
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I love 53G. It was my favorite plane for the longest time, until I discovered 9ZL.

The Zucchini seems like a "sad" plane... It looks like it used to be well maintained with all sorts of bells and whistles, and now it's just neglected.
 
MAKG1 said:
Meet them at the Sky Kitchen. There are signs directing to it from the north side access road.

Have them park here:

http://goo.gl/maps/2Ucnz

[I guess that's a little further than halfway down -- do a short field landing in calm wind, or a nice long one with no brakes in the usual wind]
Click to expand...

That works for KSQL, but what about in general?
 
joycem137 said:
That works for KSQL, but what about in general?
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At 99% of the GA airports, access is not a problem for people meeting you... For the busy ones with private jet traffic then have your passengers go into the FBO's lobby and tell the CSR that they are waiting for N12345 to pick them up.... You will find out GA is one heck of a friendly batch of people..:yes::yes::)
 
Typically google maps directions will lead to a parking lot, just put in the fbo name. Remind your passengers that they are not heading to the normal airport parking in the case of an airport with passenger service. Of course, you can always just call the destination fbo and ask.
 
Look up the FBO on airnav and give your pax the street address. Often it is on the opposite side of the airport from the airline terminal. Call the FBO and ask whether they charge a ramp-fee for the type of aircraft you are flying, some do. If they dont, give them your tail number and anticipated time of your pick-up.

Good luck with your flight-test. If I may suggest something: For your first passenger flight, the evening after the flight-test is maybe not the very best time. Consider scheduling your first scenic flights with pax for the morning when the air is calm and you are not subject to fatigue after a long day. Flying with pax is a different animal from flying around with your instructor or solo. Do a W&B and dont put yourself into any situation where you think you HAVE to do something.
 
weilke said:
Good luck with your flight-test. If I may suggest something: For your first passenger flight, the evening after the flight-test is maybe not the very best time. Consider scheduling your first scenic flights with pax for the morning when the air is calm and you are not subject to fatigue after a long day. Flying with pax is a different animal from flying around with your instructor or solo. Do a W&B and dont put yourself into any situation where you think you HAVE to do something.
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On my first passenger carrying flight after the check-ride I took along my CFI just for the heck of it. It was a blast and my pax got some left seat time since the CFI was along.
 
weilke said:
Good luck with your flight-test. If I may suggest something: For your first passenger flight, the evening after the flight-test is maybe not the very best time. Consider scheduling your first scenic flights with pax for the morning when the air is calm and you are not subject to fatigue after a long day. Flying with pax is a different animal from flying around with your instructor or solo. Do a W&B and dont put yourself into any situation where you think you HAVE to do something.
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Thanks!:)

I am obsessive about doing W&B checks. I use AeroBalance, which is a great iPad app for analyzing W&B. I've been prechecking all of my friends out and in different configurations. :) The plane I'm looking at using to fly with has over a thousand pounds useful load, though, so I'm probably just fine. :D

I'm getting a lot of feedback that doing a flight THAT night might not be a great idea. Maybe I'll think about cancelling my reservation for the evening and only doing it if I'm feeling really up to it or something. Nobody will be renting planes that late on a weekday anyways, and all y'all probably know better than I. :)
 
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weilke said:
Look up the FBO on airnav and give your pax the street address. Often it is on the opposite side of the airport from the airline terminal. Call the FBO and ask whether they charge a ramp-fee for the type of aircraft you are flying, some do. If they dont, give them your tail number and anticipated time of your pick-up.
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What should I do if there are multiple FBOs? Pick one and have someone go there? Or is there usually a "primary" FBO that folks can go to?

To be honest, I'm a bit fuzzy on how all of the base operations work. I really haven't gotten out of the airplane to explore any airports. I've just been focused on flying.
 
joycem137 said:
What should I do if there are multiple FBOs? Pick one and have someone go there? Or is there usually a "primary" FBO that folks can go to?

To be honest, I'm a bit fuzzy on how all of the base operations work. I really haven't gotten out of the airplane to explore any airports. I've just been focused on flying.
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Didn't you have to fly to distant airports and visit FBO's during your long distance cross countries???:dunno::dunno:
 
joycem137 said:
What should I do if there are multiple FBOs? Pick one and have someone go there? Or is there usually a "primary" FBO that folks can go to?
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At many airports, you will have a shiny 'Jet' FBO operated by Signature, Atlantic or anything with 'Jet' in the name on one side of the airport. The lobby has granite flooring, blondies at the counter and line service employees in spiffy uniforms.

On the other side of the airport, you'll find 'a guy in a quonset who sells fuel'. There is a comfy couch in the office and guys with leather jackets and oily jeans go in and out to work on aircraft. The fuel is 50c cheaper but you have to tie down your own plane.

If I am alone, I go to the guy in a quonset, if I have pax, I go to the shiny 'Jet' place.

To be honest, I'm a bit fuzzy on how all of the base operations work. I really haven't gotten out of the airplane to explore any airports. I've just been focused on flying.
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Try out a full-service FBO, you may really like it. Some places will literally roll out the red carpet for you and hand you a bottle of water when you come out of the plane.

Call ahead so you dont get slapped with a $50 ramp fee at a place like Signature (often this can be waived with a fuel purchase). In my experience, the full service FBOs treat you coming in with a small plane as courteous and professionally as they would if you pull up in a jet. They know that the guy in his RV who pulls up and buys 12 gallons may fly a G5 during the week.
 
N801BH said:
Didn't you have to fly to distant airports and visit FBO's during your long distance cross countries???:dunno::dunno:
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Fly to? Yes. Visit? No.

I just flew to the airport, landed, taxiied back, and flew to the next waypoint. I never stopped in to say hi or anything.

I've also been predominantly flying in the early early AM on weekends, when most of the FBOs are closed or are empty.

Also, my instructor had me do my "long" X-C as KPAO-KMOD-KSAC-KPAO, which isn't far enough to need fuel or anything.
 
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If it's a small airport with one FBO it's kind of obvious. If it's a larger airport, there are usually signs that say "General Aviation" along the access road to direct motor vehicles to the GA terminal/FBO. I think nonpilots normally tune these signs out and don't see them unless they look for them.

joycem137 said:
What should I do if there are multiple FBOs? Pick one and have someone go there?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can get the street address of the FBO off of airnav.com and have them Google map it or put it in their GPS.
 
weilke said:
At many airports, you will have a shiny 'Jet' FBO operated by Signature, Atlantic or anything with 'Jet' in the name on one side of the airport. The lobby has granite flooring, blondies at the counter and line service employees in spiffy uniforms.

On the other side of the airport, you'll find 'a guy in a quonset who sells fuel'. There is a comfy couch in the office and guys with leather jackets and oily jeans go in and out to work on aircraft. The fuel is 50c cheaper but you have to tie down your own plane.

If I am alone, I go to the guy in a quonset, if I have pax, I go to the shiny 'Jet' place.



Try out a full-service FBO, you may really like it. Some places will literally roll out the red carpet for you and hand you a bottle of water when you come out of the plane.

Call ahead so you dont get slapped with a $50 ramp fee at a place like Signature (often this can be waived with a fuel purchase). In my experience, the full service FBOs treat you coming in with a small plane as courteous and professionally as they would if you pull up in a jet. They know that the guy in his RV who pulls up and buys 12 gallons may fly a G5 during the week.
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O.O

Seriously?! That explains my experiences at KMOD. We stopped there a few times to take a bathroom break/etc., and I was just shocked by how nice folks treated us and stuff... Coming right up to the window, opening doors for us, etc.

Is there a fee for all that, or are they just being nice in an attempt to get you to buy gas with them or something?
 
joycem137 said:
Fly to? Yes. Visit? No.

I just flew to the airport, landed, taxiied back, and flew to the next waypoint. I never stopped in to say hi or anything.

I've also been predominantly flying in the early early AM on weekends, when most of the FBOs are closed or are empty.

Also, my instructor had me do my "long" X-C as KPAO-KMOD-KSAC-KPAO, which isn't far enough to need fuel or anything.
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Boy, things have changed in 30 years,,, we has to stop in and get a signature from someone and pick up a business card.... :yes:
 
N801BH said:
Boy, things have changed in 30 years,,, we has to stop in and get a signature from someone and pick up a business card.... :yes:
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Lol. Indeed. My "short" X-C was just a quick hop to KMOD and back to KPAO, and one of the founders of the club I'm at commented, "Is that really what counts for Cross Country these days?"

I assume this stuff used to be a lot harder or something?
 
dmspilot said:
If it's a small airport with one FBO it's kind of obvious. If it's a larger airport, there are usually signs that say "General Aviation" along the access road to direct motor vehicles to the GA terminal/FBO. I think nonpilots normally tune these signs out and don't see them unless they look for them.



Yeah, you can get the street address of the FBO off of airnav.com and have them Google map it or put it in their GPS.
Click to expand...

You know... I don't think I made the connection that FBOs are the ones you have to pay for tiedowns and stuff... I figured it was the airport itself or something...
 
joycem137 said:
O.O

Seriously?! That explains my experiences at KMOD. We stopped there a few times to take a bathroom break/etc., and I was just shocked by how nice folks treated us and stuff... Coming right up to the window, opening doors for us, etc.

Is there a fee for all that, or are they just being nice in an attempt to get you to buy gas with them or something?
Click to expand...

There is a 'fee' for that, and that is that they make money off:
- selling you fuel at a somewhat inflated rate (often $1 or more above self-serve at some smaller fields)
- selling you services like hangaring the plane overnight, pre-heating or other handling services.
- renting you a rental car that goes for $30/day at the local enterprise for $50/day.
- selling you a tray of hors d'oeuvres that they buy for $20 from the caterer for $60 and a bag of ice that is 75c from the ice-truck for $10.

So yes, there is a 'fee', but we as the 'small plane' pilots with your $120 gas bills dont really pay for that. At least in the US, it is unusual to be charged for 'handling', those services like putting some chocks under your nosewheel are priced into the fuel and other services. Some places do however charge a ramp-fee if you dont buy a minimum amount of fuel. Call ahead, get the name of the representative you talked to before you pull up at a big FBO.
 
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It seems fairly common to have time to burn out of the 5 hours solo cross-country. I took 9ZL to Castle and Fresno 'cause I had to use up 3.1 hours.

Every airport is different. You can glean some info from AOPA Airports, or to a lesser extent airnav.com, but it's real hit or miss.
 
A low time pilot with a new ticket is best off taking no one, or just one friend, and going to small airports for the first dozen hours.
I'm not trying to dump on you. But I have been watching new pilots for over a half century and that new ASEL is simply a ticket to learn. Better you don't have to many witnesses during the steep part of the learning curve.
Remember, you don't have friendly CFI sitting next to you to jab your ribs and say "Do you really, really want to do THAT with everyone watching?" before you do it.
 
Dr. O said:
A low time pilot with a new ticket is best off taking no one, or just one friend, and going to small airports for the first dozen hours.
I'm not trying to dump on you. But I have been watching new pilots for over a half century and that new ASEL is simply a ticket to learn. Better you don't have to many witnesses during the steep part of the learning curve.
Remember, you don't have friendly CFI sitting next to you to jab your ribs and say "Do you really, really want to do THAT with everyone watching?" before you do it.
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With the exception of having possibly two people with me, that's basically my plan. Start small. Go to small airports. Stay close to home. Etc. branch out SLOWLY. Definitely do not want to become a statistic.
 
I would go to the web site air nav look up the airport and FBOs that are available.then study the remarks to help you choose the friendly FBOs.
 
joycem137 said:
You guys have convinced me. :lol: reservation cancelled, and celebratory flight scheduled for the next day.
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A good plan.
The first thing I thought of when reading the thread topic was "Who needs that on their mind when they go to do their checkride?" :nono:
Sure, it's not unheard of to go flying right after the ride- even an applicant who fails might have to fly the plane back where it came from (still as a lowly solo student). But counting your chickens before they hatch can be a distraction.
 
Where to go:

Check online here, AOPA Airports, AirNav.com I have found that www.beechtalk.com has a great section on trips and it's free. Ask around your local airport.
 
rottydaddy said:
A good plan.
The first thing I thought of when reading the thread topic was "Who needs that on their mind when they go to do their checkride?" :nono:
Sure, it's not unheard of to go flying right after the ride- even an applicant who fails might have to fly the plane back where it came from (still as a lowly solo student). But counting your chickens before they hatch can be a distraction.
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At least some of the DPEs will give practical tests at PAO, with the oral right at the club.

Speaking as a pilot who had to discontinue a checkride due to excessive winds and turbulence, flying out to a checkride may be problematic. Winds get worse in the afternoon. Especially lately, they have been combined with windshear.
 
Something to think about given your circumstances:
I'd chat with your instructor about your plans and any 'hot start' needs. It's possible you have done few if any hot starts in training, and your purposed trip picking up friends might call for these procedures. At the very least, something to consider.
Good luck on the check ride!
 
Badger said:
Something to think about given your circumstances:
I'd chat with your instructor about your plans and any 'hot start' needs. It's possible you have done few if any hot starts in training, and your purposed trip picking up friends might call for these procedures. At the very least, something to consider.
Good luck on the check ride!
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For a 172N, just don't prime, or give one stroke at most.

It's a bit more involved with injected engines.
 
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