Party balloons at 4500 feet

MassPilot

MassPilot

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This past weekend I was cruising along at 4500 feet in a Cessna 172SP while returning from Martha's Vineyard with a friend. My friend points and asks "Whats that?", and I see a cluster of maybe two dozen white party balloons tied together floating by at our altitude, maybe 200 feet off the right wing.

I was getting flight following at the time, and I immediately advised the controller as to what I saw. He told me that he was not getting a radar return (not surprising) and asked for clarification on the altitude and direction of the balloons.

The whole thing got me thinking, what would have happened if I hit them head on? I get the feeling that the propeller and intake would have sucked in enough of them to cause an engine failure. I was in gliding distance of EWB at the time if I'm remembering correctly, but I never even considered a situation such as this. It surprises me that party balloons can even float that high.
 
MassPilot said:
This past weekend I was cruising along at 4500 feet in a Cessna 172SP while returning from Martha's Vineyard with a friend. My friend points and asks "Whats that?", and I see a cluster of maybe two dozen white party balloons tied together floating by at our altitude, maybe 200 feet off the right wing.

I was getting flight following at the time, and I immediately advised the controller as to what I saw. He told me that he was not getting a radar return (not surprising) and asked for clarification on the altitude and direction of the balloons.

The whole thing got me thinking, what would have happened if I hit them head on? I get the feeling that the propeller and intake would have sucked in enough of them to cause an engine failure. I was in gliding distance of EWB at the time if I'm remembering correctly, but I never even considered a situation such as this. It surprises me that party balloons can even float that high.
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They won't kill your engine, not strait away anyway. Stick them to the intake and the filter will stop them. Your airplane the alternate air is automatic. Many of the rest of us would have to turn on alternate air or carb heat to get the alternate induction source.

If they go into the cowl then they can restrict cooling flow or even burn depending on where the came to rest.

I'd want to get on the ground and clear them off the plane at the nearest airport, but I wouldn't worry about going down because of it.
 
It's quite unlikely they would cause any issue what so ever.
 
Wow, what a timely post. I was in the pattern downwind just yesterday when I did a doubletake over what I initially thought was a couple of ultralights invading the Class D airspace. I was about to holler at the tower, and then I realized they were in fact party balloons. I had the same thoughts as well - what would have happened if I hit them. Having those ribbon strings getting tangled in the prop can't be a good thing.

I didn't bother hollering at the tower. The wind was pretty strong and they were well out of the area before anybody else could have been affected.
 
I had to deviate around a piloted hot air balloon outside of ABQ class Charlie once. Approach controller said she didn't have a radar return from it either, despite it having a burner and fuel tanks onboard.
 
Ha! One time I was over Dallas with an aerial photographer, and I kid you not, here was a black and an orange balloon tied together, and as we cruised past them, there was a gift bag hanging underneath. I often have wondered what was in that bag...

Ryan
 
We passed a Mylar balloon at about 500-1000 feet in the helicopter. We both were staring at as we fly by. I thought the same thing and wondered what would have happened is it was sucked into the main rotors or the torque rotor.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
http://www.clusterballoon.org/
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He says there are a half-dozen pilots worldwide and that the page takes awhile on dialup. I suspect that the webpage is quite outdated and (perhaps) others have joined the sport(?).

RyanShort1 said:
Ha! One time I was over Dallas with an aerial photographer, and I kid you not, here was a black and an orange balloon tied together, and as we cruised past them, there was a gift bag hanging underneath. I often have wondered what was in that bag...

Ryan
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Ryan- may have been time to practice turns around a (moving) point.
 
Jaybird180 said:
He says there are a half-dozen pilots worldwide and that the page takes awhile on dialup. I suspect that the webpage is quite outdated and (perhaps) others have joined the sport(?).


Ryan- may have been time to practice turns around a (moving) point.
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Moves with the wind (see weathervaneing thread:wink2: ) easy.

And yes ive done it
 
This has happened to me too... apparently those wild balloons get away from people more often than I thought! :dunno: It was only one balloon for me, floating along underneath the St. Louis Bravo airspace about 10 years or so ago. It was one of those shiny mylar balloons. Shaped like a butterfly, multi-colored with that kind of curling ribbon attached to it that everyone uses on gifts. Red.
 
jesse said:
It's quite unlikely they would cause any issue what so ever.
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Isn't 'popping balloons' a skills contest that used to be done similar to flour bombing ?
 
weilke said:
Isn't 'popping balloons' a skills contest that used to be done similar to flour bombing ?
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Back in the day, that's what scoring with as many fat chicks as you could in one night was called.
 
zaitcev said:
I had to deviate around a piloted hot air balloon outside of ABQ class Charlie once. Approach controller said she didn't have a radar return from it either, despite it having a burner and fuel tanks onboard.
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I was coming into Minden, NV once (non-controlled) and I announced my position. A lady came on the radio and gave her position. I looked around asked her to repeat. I didn't catch that she was a balloon and totally overlooked her, but there she was (I saw her, but didn't make a connection with the call, she was just outside of the pattern). At least she was talking :)
 
I had a flight instructor once who, when flying with another student, was asked by the tower to check out a report of a kite in the area of the traffic pattern. As he headed out to investigate, his wing caught the string of the kite. It slid across the leading edge of the wing until the kite, itself slammed into the wing. no significant damage except all the paint was stripped off the leading edge.

I wonder what happened to the guy at the other end of the string...:hairraise:
 
John221us said:
I was coming into Minden, NV once (non-controlled) and I announced my position. A lady came on the radio and gave her position. I looked around asked her to repeat. I didn't catch that she was a balloon and totally overlooked her, but there she was (I saw her, but didn't make a connection with the call, she was just outside of the pattern). At least she was talking :)
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And I watche one launch into 200ovc here at ISZ once:yikes:
 
FlySince9 said:
I had a flight instructor once who, when flying with another student, was asked by the tower to check out a report of a kite in the area of the traffic pattern. As he headed out to investigate, his wing caught the string of the kite. It slid across the leading edge of the wing until the kite, itself slammed into the wing. no significant damage except all the paint was stripped off the leading edge.

I wonder what happened to the guy at the other end of the string...:hairraise:
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This is just plain dumb. What hazard does a kite pose? (I'm assuming one of the small store bought type). IMO if there's one there, find it when you find it, but don't go looking for it.
 
Jaybird180 said:
This is just plain dumb. What hazard does a kite pose? (I'm assuming one of the small store bought type). IMO if there's one there, find it when you find it, but don't go looking for it.
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I agree... By the way, this instructor was the guy who 'landed' his Champ on the george washington bridge in 1962 or 63, not sure exact year. Fuel starvation issue. Caught up with a truck and demolished the airplane. Still has some scars.
 
Sometimes you see weather balloon NOTAMs out there. Whenever we used to send up weather balloons, we'd hang a makeshift radar reflector under it just to be sure that ATC could see it. Pretty easy to make out of some cardboard and aluminum foil, and could save someone some pain, considering we hung a good 4 lbs off it.
 
jpower said:
Sometimes you see weather balloon NOTAMs out there. Whenever we used to send up weather balloons, we'd hang a makeshift radar reflector under it just to be sure that ATC could see it. Pretty easy to make out of some cardboard and aluminum foil, and could save someone some pain, considering we hung a good 4 lbs off it.
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There is a lady, who just joined my Kiwanis Club. She said she makes a living doing aerial photography, using a 7 foot balloon. I didn't really have much chance to talk to her, but I did ask her if she needed to notify anyone, when she did her thing. She said she did not, but was limited to 500 feet. This still doesn't sound right to me, but she said she has even done it at an airport (though admitted that the airport manager had "notified" the pilots).
 
Absolutely nothing bad would have happened had you hit the balloons... We had balloon popping parties when I was a young man and toilet paper cutting... Great fun and proves how difficult it is to be a fighter pilot...
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm glad to know that this wasn't really a close call.
 
John221us said:
There is a lady, who just joined my Kiwanis Club. She said she makes a living doing aerial photography, using a 7 foot balloon. I didn't really have much chance to talk to her, but I did ask her if she needed to notify anyone, when she did her thing. She said she did not, but was limited to 500 feet. This still doesn't sound right to me, but she said she has even done it at an airport (though admitted that the airport manager had "notified" the pilots).
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Not sure why she would have been limited to 500 feet. FAR Part 101.1 discusses the applicability of the requirement to notify the FAA of high altitude ballooning, and you can do whatever you like as long as the package weighs less than 4 pounds. Once you're heavier than 4 pounds, there are more regulations that apply...let me go find them. *Consults FARs* Here they are. If any of the following apply, you have to let the FAA know. Otherwise, you don't.

(i) Carries a payload package that weighs more than four pounds and has a weight/size ratio of more than three ounces per square inch on any surface of the package, determined by dividing the total weight in ounces of the payload package by the area in square inches of its smallest surface;

(ii) Carries a payload package that weighs more than six pounds;

(iii) Carries a payload, of two or more packages, that weighs more than 12 pounds; or

(iv) Uses a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload from the balloon.
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You can send balloons as high as you want. I think the highest one of ours went was 110,000 feet.
 
Aaaaaaand now I feel dumb. She's using a moored balloon, which is governed differently.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite—

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.
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Though apparently they require a waiver if the balloon is larger than 6 feet in diameter...unless I'm missing something, so I dunno.
 
jpower said:
Aaaaaaand now I feel dumb. She's using a moored balloon, which is governed differently.



Though apparently they require a waiver if the balloon is larger than 6 feet in diameter...unless I'm missing something, so I dunno.
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Good info. Based on her response to me, I don't think she is completely familiar with these rules. She said it was a 7' balloon (>6') and she did operate it at an airport once (although it sounds like the airport manager may have notified the FAA on her behalf).
 
Edge of Space Sciences -- www.eoss.org -- has flown hundreds of "weather" balloons over the years. Nice photos on their website, too.

One of their members used to chase them down after burst with a rental 182. He got good enough to be about 1/2 mile from the plummeting thing as it went by and plopped in a field somewhere. The ground trackers complained that driving to the circling airplane was too easy. ;)

Not quite as impressive as the government folks who used to catch film containers falling from Earth orbit, but still fun.
 
I am not going to be a stickler and bring up 91.15 like what happened in that other thread, but here's a couple of sites to reference.

91.15
choke

/joke
 
Wow, this is funny, you're more likely to win the Powerball 2 weeks in a row than sustaining damage or disability from a party balloon.

Wanna know what happens when a balloon goes through a prop? Do it on the ramp.
 
raider said:
I am not going to be a stickler and bring up 91.15 like what happened in that other thread, but here's a couple of sites to
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91.15 doesn't prohibit flour-bombing contests or dropping flower bouquets at weddings etc. why would it keep you from popping a 1/8th oz balloon ?
 
denverpilot said:
Not quite as impressive as the government folks who used to catch film containers falling from Earth orbit, but still fun.
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Yeah, early Cold War was a heady stuff. When they tried to replicate the feat for Stardust, chute failed to open, and we'll never know if a helo could do the job that C-114 did back then.
 
I see balloons all the time, no problem...unless there's a guy in a lawn chair swinging beneath them. No kidding, it's happened.
 
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