Part 61 Solo

[cornell eyde]

I have a family member that is currently completing their PPL under Part 61.

I know things have changed since I trained, but is it normal that the instructor is basically treating every solo and cross country as a "supervised solo"?

In my day when I got the solo sign-off I was encouraged to book the plane and build my
solo time while concurrently continuing to train with the instructor. but in regard to my solo time as long as the weather was within my limits my instructor did not micro-manage when I flew solo.

 

[Jim Carpenter]

Not regulatory, but it is a common practice for many CFIs. Highly dependent on individual circumstances. And, many flight schools, whether 61 or 141, have their own internal ops/policies requiring a CFI "on duty" at the school during any student solo.

 

[texasclouds]

Every XC flight plan has to be endorsed but your local flights just need to be within your weather limitations. After the first few solos, my guys were cut loose to go forth and prosper. Some would rack of the hours, other the bare minimum.

 

[cornell eyde]

Every XC flight plan has to be endorsed but your local flights just need to be within your weather limitations. After the first few solos, my guys were cut loose to go forth and prosper. Some would rack of the hours, other the bare minimum.

Indeed that's what I remember, the school doesn't have this policy (I checked), it seems this is isolated to this particular instructor.

 

[RussR]

It's not clear what you mean by "supervised" solo, that has different meanings to different people. To me it means the first solo or two where I'm literally watching from the ground as the student takes the plane around the pattern.

On future local solo flights, I do generally ask the student to send me a text if they're thinking about going flying, that way I can help them look at the weather and such. But even that is flexible if they're really motivated and doing a lot of flying on their own. For instance, if they own the aircraft they're training in and want to rack up a bunch of hours, I think that's great and may stop having them check in with me. But that doesn't happen too often, most students are only aiming to do the bare minimum solo hours (which is a shame but a different discussion).

I don't consider my second paragraph to be "supervised solo".

 

[luvflyin]

Not regulatory, but it is a common practice for many CFIs. Highly dependent on individual circumstances. And, many flight schools, whether 61 or 141, have their own internal ops/policies requiring a CFI "on duty" at the school during any student solo.

Are those that do that getting their hourly rate while just hanging out waiting for the student to get back?

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

It's not clear what you mean by "supervised" solo, that has different meanings to different people. To me it means the first solo or two where I'm literally watching from the ground as the student takes the plane around the pattern.

On future local solo flights, I do generally ask the student to send me a text if they're thinking about going flying, that way I can help them look at the weather and such. But even that is flexible if they're really motivated and doing a lot of flying on their own. For instance, if they own the aircraft they're training in and want to rack up a bunch of hours, I think that's great and may stop having them check in with me. But that doesn't happen too often, most students are only aiming to do the bare minimum solo hours (which is a shame but a different discussion).

I don't consider my second paragraph to be "supervised solo".

This sounds exactly like the relationship I had with my first CFI, it was great. He encouraged me to fly all the time in the pattern or in the practice area nearby. Similar to your requirements he just wanted a text so he could check wx and make sure I wasn't missing something. The second CFI I had (since first one left the school mid-training) was the total opposite. Any flying over the minimum solo hours and he questioned the value of it. He seemed to view every "unnecessary" solo flight as a needless risk for both me and him. That was exhausting.

 

[Gary Ward]

I have a family member that is currently completing their PPL under Part 61.

I know things have changed since I trained, but is it normal that the instructor is basically treating every solo and cross country as a "supervised solo"?

In my day when I got the solo sign-off I was encouraged to book the plane and build my
solo time while concurrently continuing to train with the instructor. but in regard to my solo time as long as the weather was within my limits my instructor did not micro-manage when I flew solo.

My experience was the same as yours when I was training in 2015. Once I solo I was able to rent/fly the plane pretty much anytime anywhere and most times my instructor was not at the school or he was flying with another student and we did not speak at all sometimes when I flew solo. Then I would fly with him until he signed me off for my check ride.

Wonder if the CFI is not yet comfortable with your family member flying solo?

 

[RyanShort1]

It's hard to say without knowing the CFI. It could be that the CFI's been burned before (I have!) and has reasonable reasons to be cautious.

 

[EdFred]

I have a family member that is currently completing their PPL under Part 61.

I know things have changed since I trained, but is it normal that the instructor is basically treating every solo and cross country as a "supervised solo"?

In my day when I got the solo sign-off I was encouraged to book the plane and build my
solo time while concurrently continuing to train with the instructor. but in regard to my solo time as long as the weather was within my limits my instructor did not micro-manage when I flew solo.

Sounds like a puppy-mill CFI out on his own.

I have never supervised solo'd any of my students other than their first one.
We go over the plan.
"text/call me with any issues or when you get back"
kthxbai

I don't even ask them to text or call when they are going out to practice.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

I just had a student fly his initial solo today. We were together for a few landings, then I got out and observed his solo landings. "Supervised solo." Our syllabus requires the second solo to be the same. Third one we fly together for steep turns, stalls, practice emergency landing, maybe ground reference maneuvers, then the student goes up alone to practice the same things. Since I am not supervising that after I get out, the student does not get charged for my time when he/she goes alone. Fourth one is a dual trip to a nearby Class D, then student drops me off and returns alone. Again, only charged for the time when I am in the airplane (plus briefing/debriefing).

After those four, the student can go solo whenever they want, however, they must always complete a solo preflight form that is reviewed by an instructor (not necessarily the primary instructor) before they are handed the airplane key. The form confirms that weather conditions are within their limitations, the tach hours are within the limits before oil change or 100-hour, a weight and balance is within limits, and a calculated takeoff and landing distance. This is training, trying to get pilots to consider limitations before any flight.

 

[mandm]

I just had a student fly his initial solo today. We were together for a few landings, then I got out and observed his solo landings. "Supervised solo." Our syllabus requires the second solo to be the same. Third one we fly together for steep turns, stalls, practice emergency landing, maybe ground reference maneuvers, then the student goes up alone to practice the same things. Since I am not supervising that after I get out, the student does not get charged for my time when he/she goes alone. Fourth one is a dual trip to a nearby Class D, then student drops me off and returns alone. Again, only charged for the time when I am in the airplane (plus briefing/debriefing).

After those four, the student can go solo whenever they want, however, they must always complete a solo preflight form that is reviewed by an instructor (not necessarily the primary instructor) before they are handed the airplane key. The form confirms that weather conditions are within their limitations, the tach hours are within the limits before oil change or 100-hour, a weight and balance is within limits, and a calculated takeoff and landing distance. This is training, trying to get pilots to consider limitations before any flight.

This sounds spot on, and after the third one, we would be endorsed for solo flying for a certain period of time (30/60/90 days I forgot), so if you disappeared for 6 months and came back you would not be eligible to fly solo without going up with an instructor first.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

This sounds spot on, and after the third one, we would be endorsed for solo flying for a certain period of time (30/60/90 days I forgot), so if you disappeared for 6 months and came back you would not be eligible to fly solo without going up with an instructor first.

We have an agreement that students or renters must have three landings in the previous two months or will fly with an instructor before solo flights.

 

[flyingpreacher]

I had a CFI who operated very much like described in the OP. Former US Army rotorcraft pilot, and had retired from the same federal agency that I work for. We had a great relationship and I never thought twice about having him sign off on every solo. Honestly the thought of a <40 hr pilot going by themselves without even checking in with anybody could be a pretty scary thought.

Sounds like a good policy to me. If you are consistent with your policy across the board, there can never be allegations of favoritism, “you did this for him, why not for me?” Or any other such nonsense. Sure. Maybe you have a good student who is trustworthy with a $100,000 aircraft after 15 hours, but my experience says that those are in the minority.

I personally have no problem with the situation that OP described.