Park City crash.

John Baker

Final Approach
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John Baker
A thread in hanger talk was about a tree house that the city found to be illegal. The link was to a newspaper in Park City. Also on that page was a story about a small plane going down. Here it is.


Officials begin plane crash investigation

Recovering » Two firefighters survived plane crash that killed a third
By Lindsay Whitehurst
The Salt Lake Tribune

Updated: 11/22/2008 09:39:49 PM MST



Two Salt Lake City firefighters remained hospitalized Saturday as officials began an investigation into Friday's small plane crash. A third city firefighter aboard the plane, 25-year-old Dylan Hopkins, died of injuries suffered during the emergency landing high in the Uinta Mountains.
The three were flying to Colorado Springs for a weekend trip in a Cessna 172 belonging to firefighter Craig Weaver, who was piloting the plane.
Salt Lake City Mayor Ralph Becker decreed Saturday that flags at all Salt Lake City fire stations be flown at half-staff until after Hopkins' burial.
All three men are from Station No. 5, located near 900 South and 900 East.
Weaver and another passenger, Bryon Meyer, were in serious but stable condition at University Hospital about noon Saturday, said Salt Lake City Fire Department spokesman Scott Freitag.
"They're both still doing all right as far as being conscious and alert and talking to doctors and nurses and their families," he said. Doctors were still working to determine the extent of the two men's injuries, and how long they might be in the hospital, Freitag said.
A loss of power could have forced Weaver to execute an emergency landing in the mountains about 20 miles from Kamas, said Wasatch County Sheriff's Deputy Travus Jensen, but it's unclear what might have caused the power loss, or where it happened.
The National Transportation Safety Board started an investigation Friday, said
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NTSB spokesman Terry Williams, though investigators have not visited the scene or talked to the survivors.
Investigations usually take about a year.
The three men landed in a small clearing Friday. About 12:15 p.m., Weaver called AirMed dispatch to report the crash. After a 90-minute search for the plane, which was nearly invisible in the snow at 9,800 feet, helicopters rescued the three men. Hopkins died about 3 p.m.
Following the rescue, Jensen rode a snowmobile for nine miles to reach the scene, which was in rocky terrain buried beneath about a foot of snow. The plane's nose was crushed, he said, and its body had split nearly in half close to the tail.

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John

 
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To start with, that's not the plane to be taking from SLC to COS. Poor ADM cost them their friend's life. I don't even care what the power loss was a result of. That was just plain, poor judgment.

They were facing MEAs of at least 11,000 and MORAs of over 16,000. That's taking a southern route toward Montrose and over the divide at Monarch Pass.

I'm sorry for the loss but geeze...
 
3 up in a 172 with 355 nm to go and average peak terrain 14,000. Probably big strapping guys, too.
 
3 up in a 172 with 355 nm to go and average peak terrain 14,000. Probably big strapping guys, too.
Heck, I hadn't even gotten as far as W&B. The three and likely full fuel... grounded!

Yesterday, I had two flights with two people in a 172S. Each had between twenty-five and thirty gallons. The first had a male around 180 and female at 145. I'm at 220. Throw in about 30 in baggage, we're just barely in limit. The second flight was a bit less as she was a tiny thing, maybe 110. He was about the same.

I'm sure those guys were easily 200-220 along with full fuel and maybe 30 pounds baggage for each. They were easily a couple hundred pounds over. The plane will carry it but not at 12,000+ feet. They crashed at 9,800. That's a pretty good indicator in itself.

A loss of power could have forced Weaver to execute an emergency landing in the mountains...
Ya think? And, we still don't know what model Skyhawk this was, SMOH, nuttin'. I'll be looking for this one again as a good example on teaching weight and balance. A former Florida school has already provided one but I'm still waiting for the official probable cause.
 
That does seem awfully heavy for mountain flying.

2 up in a 172, that flight might be doable (dunno about the range), but with the 3rd person? No freaking way.
 
That does seem awfully heavy for mountain flying.

2 up in a 172, that flight might be doable (dunno about the range), but with the 3rd person? No freaking way.


When I was operating the Tiger (180 HP) in the Rockies, I considered it a two place plane, unless it was winter and I was staying out of the mountains on the Front Range. However, IIRC, I think I only had a person in the back once, just to fly up to Boulder for a day trip and take a visitor for some aerial sight seeing of Denver. Got FTG - direct DEN (tower) - direct BDU. Heh, heh.......
 
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This whole thing is making me want to get some more opinions to an earlier thread I started. Is it feasible to fly my Warrior PA/161 up to Colorado Springs with myself (200 lbs) and possibly one passenger (125lbs) from San Diego?

Another destination would be near Denver, the 125lber has her family just outside of Denver?

Or is this just another of my not so bright ideas? (Thought I'd make it easy for you.)

John
 
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This whole thing is making me want to get some more opinions to an earlier thread I started. Is it feasible to fly my Warrior PA/161 up to Colorado Springs with myself (200 lbs) and possibly one passenger (125lbs) from San Diego?

Another destination would be near Denver, the 125lber has her family just outside of Denver?

Or is this just another of my not so bright ideas? (Thought I'd make it easy for you.)

John

I don't know the routes you might fly, but aside from the airports in the midst of the Colorado Rockies (e.g. Teluride, Aspen) it's generally possible to find a path that doesn't require altitudes any higher than 8000 or 10,000 MSL which should be easy in your Cherokee. That flight from SLC to COS is a good case in point, the most direct route passes over/past some very high terrain but they could have followed I-80 to the east and then run south over lower terrain.
 
This whole thing is making me want to get some more opinions to an earlier thread I started. Is it feasible to fly my Warrior PA/161 up to Colorado Springs with myself (200 lbs) and possibly one passenger (125lbs) from San Diego?

Another destination would be near Denver, the 125lber has her family just outside of Denver?

Or is this just another of my not so bright ideas? (Thought I'd make it easy for you.)

John



Can your Warrior get up to 12,500 ft? How much under gross will you be flying in lbs? What is that as a percentage of total gross weight? My guess is that its is doable, but I'd like to see the numbers. Its been about 12 years since I've flown a Warrior.
 
It's a Warrior II, with the new wings. The highest I have ever taken a Warrior II (not mine, but a rental) was a little over ten thousand. The controls felt kinda mushy, and being even newer to flying than I am now, I let it go at that. Someone here on POA pointed out that I probably was not in trim properly if the controls were all that sloppy.

I guess my next step is to simply get out there and take it up as high as I can push it with my flight instructor on board for the additional weight and guidance.

John
 
I guess my next step is to simply get out there and take it up as high as I can push it with my flight instructor on board for the additional weight and guidance.

John

Good ideas. Also, you get used to the "mushy" feel of these controls. Once you get it trimmed up its fine. It does feel a little bit like balancing on a basketball, but again, you get used to it.

The cooler temps this time of year will help. The fight school at Leadville, CO operates a stock 150HP C-172 for training. They start out at 9,927 ft. and go up from there.
 
My Cherokee under gross ran out of steam about 10.5 coming back from Savannah. Screw the Rockies. Mountains make weather and eat airplanes.
 
If you can get out of SoCal, then to PHX you can go around the south end of the mountains and up the plains to Denver. I did a version of that in a Cessna 180 a few years ago, starting in Blythe, never above 9k.

This whole thing is making me want to get some more opinions to an earlier thread I started. Is it feasible to fly my Warrior PA/161 up to Colorado Springs with myself (200 lbs) and possibly one passenger (125lbs) from San Diego?

Another destination would be near Denver, the 125lber has her family just outside of Denver?

Or is this just another of my not so bright ideas? (Thought I'd make it easy for you.)

John
 
John Baker- I have flown older 172's (160hp) from COS to San Diego and back on several occasions. It's quite doable, even with 3 people and light baggage. As the temps get cooler, it portends even better performance for a 172. But it is a LONG trip! lol

ICE will be the greatest danger on this trip, as we come into winter. Keep that in the back of your mind!

Plan on flying E to El Centro, along I-8 to Yuma, stay S of the Aerostat balloon,
Then fly NE to PHX and on to ShowLow/ St. Johns.
Then E/NE to ABQ or SAF, then get EAST of the Sangra de Cristos to Las Vegas, NM. From there, its an easy leg up to COS.
 
This whole thing is making me want to get some more opinions to an earlier thread I started. Is it feasible to fly my Warrior PA/161 up to Colorado Springs with myself (200 lbs) and possibly one passenger (125lbs) from San Diego?

Not if all you do is punch direct-to and follow the magenta line. With VFR weather and careful flight planning, it can be done. How familiar are you with your plane? How high have you had it? It might be worth it to put a similar amount of weight aboard and climb it up to 13,500 or so before you leave, noting your climb performance every 1000 feet or so (maybe every 500 above 10,000) so you have an idea what to expect.

I forget, have you taken a mountain flying course? That'd be a good thing to do beforehand as well. I was *really* glad that I did that before flying through the Rockies in CO. It made the trip a lot less nerve-wracking and more fun. :yes:
 
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