parachute questions...

Matthew

Matthew

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Matthew
I pretty much don't know anything about sizes, styles, or weight limits.

We had a glider club meeting yesterday, one of the guys told us about a mid-air at his home club in Germany. A one-place and a two-place glider clipped each other in a thermal. All 3 pilots bailed and are OK. (Seems like the two-place glider lost sight of the other, then turned inside of him. A 15yr old was in the single-place, his canopy got knocked off by the wingtip of the other sailplane. The other plane lost about a 3-ft section of the wing. Possibly, a more experience pilot might have thought about saving the glider, but the kid jumped. The other went inverted and started to dive - the back seater got his canopy open, but the front-seater couldn't because the speed they were picking up was pushing it closed. Between one guy pushing from the inside, and another pulling from the outside, they managed to get it open.)

Not everyone in our club has or wears a chute, but someone made a comment about maybe we should get one for the club.

Are they sized by weight limits?

Does each weight category have a wide enough weight range that there could be such a thing as "one size fits all"?

Don't know if we'll ever do this or not, but I'd still like to know just for my own sake.
 
I'm not sure about emergency chutes, but I sport jump - they are sized based on "exit weight" which is the max. People buy smaller sizes when they want a faster, more maneuverable canopy.
 
Talk to Allen Silver at Silver Parachutes. He sells a good number of emergency chutes, and is pretty knowledgeable about acro and glider emergency chutes.
 
Here's his phone number. 510-785-7070

I posted earlier but it's not here - wonder why? Oh well, no matter. I got my chute from Allen. He's very helpful.
 
Hi Geoff, No not that post .... I meant I posted an answer to this thread in answer to Matthews question. Guess maybe it didn't go thru or ???
Anyway, doesn't matter now.. he's got the leads he needs for info.
Thanks though
 
The other comment in the meeting was a suggestion that anyone who does wear a chute should take at least one jump with a skydiving club. One of the guys who always wears a chute said "Nope - I'm scared of heights. If I need to jump I will, but not until then!"
 
plus 1 for allen silver. leah and i both have parachutes fronm him. he had a really good article in soaring last month about bailing out. listen to what he says.

my understanding is that spiort parachuting is nothing like emergency chutes. emergency chutes arent as manueverable and if you try to flare one to a landing you will pancake.
 
tonycondon said:
plus 1 for allen silver. leah and i both have parachutes fronm him. he had a really good article in soaring last month about bailing out. listen to what he says.

my understanding is that spiort parachuting is nothing like emergency chutes. emergency chutes arent as manueverable and if you try to flare one to a landing you will pancake.
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I've read that article. That, acd the accident, may have been what triggered the conversation yesterday.
 
tonycondon said:
my understanding is that spiort parachuting is nothing like emergency chutes. emergency chutes arent as manueverable and if you try to flare one to a landing you will pancake.
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So was that a PLF.. Parachute Landing Fall..
or PFL.. Poor F.... Landing :D
 
Matthew said:
Not everyone in our club has or wears a chute, but someone made a comment about maybe we should get one for the club.

Are they sized by weight limits?

Does each weight category have a wide enough weight range that there could be such a thing as "one size fits all"?

Don't know if we'll ever do this or not, but I'd still like to know just for my own sake.
Click to expand...

Most single seat "modern" fiberglass gliders are built for a parachute.
Most modern 2 seaters also.. I'll wear a chute in the Grob 103 if we are doing spin training, no way can I wear one while instructing in the Schweizer 2-33.

It takes an origami pilot to get in and out of the back seat of a 2-33 without a parachute. Plus the chute would push me to far forward into the stick.

One size does not fit all, a full length chute in one glider may not work in another. Backpack chutes work the best for me (personally) in most single seat gliders.

Our club has an old AF 27ft Round that we don't use much anymore. We have two "Softies" that came with the Janus C. We keep those inpsected for club members. Just about all of the private owners (single seat) have their own parachute.

I have my own chute, a National 425 backpack style that I use in the club LS-4.
 
BillTIZ said:
Most single seat "modern" fiberglass gliders are built for a parachute.
Most modern 2 seaters also.. I'll wear a chute in the Grob 103 if we are doing spin training, no way can I wear one while instructing in the Schweizer 2-33.

It takes an origami pilot to get in and out of the back seat of a 2-33 without a parachute. Plus the chute would push me to far forward into the stick.

One size does not fit all, a full length chute in one glider may not work in another. Backpack chutes work the best for me (personally) in most single seat gliders.

Our club has an old AF 27ft Round that we don't use much anymore. We have two "Softies" that came with the Janus C. We keep those inpsected for club members. Just about all of the private owners (single seat) have their own parachute.

I have my own chute, a National 425 backpack style that I use in the club LS-4.
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I think the idea would be just to have a chute available for use, not to force members into wearing it. I think the guys in the club that do own chutes use a Softie.

I know there are guys in our club who would not be able to use one. I was helping one guy get strapped into the 1-26. He was having such a hard time squeezing in that I told him "no need for you to wear a chute", he'd never make it out of the glider in time (although folks can move mighty quick when they have to).
 
Generally speaking european gliders are designed to be flown wearing a chute. My Ka-6 seatpan is shaped to accommodate a chute. On the flip side most Schweizers I've flown were not really set up for a chute (2-22,2-33, 1-26). From what I recall from the few glider flights I made in Germany was that you always wore a chute, no exception.

I can see how a "practice" skydive could be helpful. A long time ago I made a static line jump out of a not so perfectly fine jump plane. I think that learning the PLF manouver, and controlling the chute on the descent are a good thing. Just remember as Tony sais a round is no square chute.
 
I would also suggest speaking with Dan Tarasevich, of Paraphernalia, who sells the Softie line (see the back page ads in Sport Aerobatics). After looking at several brands of containers, I thought the Paraphernalia chutes made the most sense in terms of the design of their containers. Take a look at the back flaps- some make the chute deploy out of a pocket, while the Softie line opens completely. Perhaps just a small point, but one that did show some forethought. Dan will also make a rig with quick ejector snaps at all three points. They do add a little weight and you need to be sure the snaps don't end up under your aerobatic harness (try pushing some serious G's and having the buckle jam into your groins). However, they make the rig much easier to put on and take off.

I always exit the plane with the rig on, and then take it off, rather than take off the aerobatic harness and then the chute while in the plane. If I ever need to egress the plane in a hurry, I want to be sure I just undo the harness, but not the chute.

So, be sure there is also enough back support- I originally had a micro rig, but it did not give enough back support, so went to a full length container. It is now much more comfortable and distributes the load.

Just some things to think about. All of these guys are at Oshkosh as well, so you can speak with them in person and make up your own mind. You also might want to go to your local sky diving school and ask if their rigger has any opinions on manufacturers. Good luck.
 
vontresc said:
I can see how a "practice" skydive could be helpful. A long time ago I made a static line jump out of a not so perfectly fine jump plane. I think that learning the PLF manouver, and controlling the chute on the descent are a good thing. Just remember as Tony sais a round is no square chute.
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I don't think there is a single drop-zone left in the US where you could do a practice jump using a round parachute.

All recreational and sport skydiving is done with ram-air airfoil parachutes that are flown to a landing rather than the controlled crash of a round parachute impact.

The only ones using round parachutes are the airborne troops. Having access to their training facility and a military parachute instructor could be helpful to drill the mechanics of the PLF.

The emergency egress can be practiced on the ground. For your survival, it is not so important whether you can execute an elegant PLF, key is that you know in what order to get rid of the harness, jettison the canopy and get out of the thing. The PLF is there to keep your orthopedic surgery bill at a manageable level.
 
AcroBoy said:
You also might want to go to your local sky diving school and ask if their rigger has any opinions on manufacturers. Good luck.
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I believe there is very little overlap between the manufacturers of emergency parachute systems and skydiving rigs. A rigger who specializes on acro and glider equipment would probably more helpful than a skydiving rigger.
 
Not familiar with Allen Silver, but it sounds as if he comes with good recommendations.

Another option is to "Google" sky diving equipment and you will find a number of links to parachute manufactures. Contact the manufactures directly for information regarding their emergency parachute systems for aircraft. They will be more than happy to explain equipment parameters to you. You'll find that canopy selection is pretty simple and generic. One size that fits MOST is not too difficult to find. The most difficult part of the selection will be harness and hardware combinations. All of the options will be SAFE, however, ease of use and comfort will differ widely.

IMO, a skydive is not necessary or desirable to safely use an emergency parachute. What is important is proper instruction on the maintenance, rules of use (airworthiness/currency), emergency exit procedures relative to the aircraft in use, the situations and altitudes that an emergency exit should be initiated and deployment procedures for the specific parachute in use.

I'd check with your local skydiving facility to locate a qualified licensed instructor to setup a training seminar pertinent to the use of emergency parachutes.
 
McBuzz said:
I'd check with your local skydiving facility to locate a qualified licensed instructor to setup a training seminar pertinent to the use of emergency parachutes.
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Look, reach, pull. Dropzones mostly don't know or care much about what pilots need. Even the army is looking to go to squares for all of their jumpers, pilots will be the last ones using rounds. Best to deal with Allen Silver types, folks that specialize in pilot rigs. One thing to be aware of is some manufacturers set the lifespan of their gear to 20 years- forced obsolescence(see above about the only people wearing rounds).
 
When I went to go buy a couple of emergency rigs for use in my Pitts, my thought process was the same as when I bought motorcycle helmets - I hope I never have to use it but if I do the money I saved on buying less than the absolute best in the world is going to seem foolish. In that brief time span between the time you exit the plane and you're hanging under a good canopy, having gotten a bargain on the rig isn't going to be on your mind. For me, that meant buying two identical Butler Parachutes. They'll probably cost you twice what you could get a reasonably good parachute for but the peace of mind I get knowing that my 'chute has been tested at over 300 knots and over 400 lbs without blowing out any panels or otherwise malfunctioning is worth it to me. I also send them back to Buzz Conner at Blue Ridge Skydiving for my inspections and repacks. He's the guy that does it for Butler and since it's a different system than an average emergency 'chute (slider equipped) I feel better about his repacks. They have a variety of containers for just about any application and are happy to customize anything you need for you specific shape and application.
 
Dropzones mostly don't know or care much about what pilots need. Even the army is looking to go to squares for all of their jumpers, pilots will be the last ones using rounds. Best to deal with Allen Silver types, folks that specialize in pilot rigs. One thing to be aware of is some manufacturers set the lifespan of their gear to 20 years- forced obsolescence(see above about the only people wearing rounds).[/quote]

The point is that Allen Silver and others are in the business to sell their chutes, so it would ultimately pay to shop around. After around ten years of the local master rigger packing my chutes, he has taught me a fair amount about what makes a good one, or at least some desirable features. He knows a lot more about chutes than I, and he's not trying to sell me anything. Regardless, they all feel somewhat different,so it really would pay to try different ones and be sure you like the harness and the way the container sits on your back.

It's probably not as critical in a plane that already has a padded seat like a Decathlon, but becomes much more important when the seat is simply a hard board or seat pan.
 
Most DropZones don't have round packing tables anymore and the riggers likely packed 5 non airworthy rounds just to get signed off for the FAA exam and haven't touched a round since. The world has moved on in 1990 they weren't selling new round reserves to skydivers anymore. You want to wear a stone age parachute you have to deal with folks familiar with stone age equipment. That said I have heard good things about Allen Silver and Don Mayer, Parachute shop, for finding pilots rigs that fit and sourcing budget used equipment when possible.
 
True, today's parachute riggers at local drop zones may not pack many if any round parachutes any more, however, they still tend to get the inquiries regarding "where can I get an emergency parachute repacked" from the few acro pilots in the area.

While the local parachute rigger may not be familiar with a particular parachute type, he or she may know of someone who is. What you're looking for is a contact. Not a bad place to start.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Look, reach, pull.
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Might work. However, odds are improved if one has a basic idea of when to pull and some idea of desired body position (not necessarily face to earth). Concidering at this point, this is one's last hope of survival, I'd want every odd I could get in my favor.
 
0-3 seconds, nevermind body position. Look, reach, pull.
McBuzz said:
Might work. However, odds are improved if one has a basic idea of when to pull and some idea of desired body position (not necessarily face to earth). Concidering at this point, this is one's last hope of survival, I'd want every odd I could get in my favor.
Click to expand...
 
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