Paper trails at annual time.

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
The aircraft is a PA 17, (Clipper) which in 1957 had the OEM dope and cotton removed and Super flite type 1 installed. (dope over Ceconite) and a 337 was filed placing the STC on record in history files, by approval of the local FSDO.

1977 the type one was removed and stitz was installed, no 337 or STC in the logs or history files with the aircraft.

2005 aircraft was restored and the covers replaced, using Poly Fiber and a acrylic urethane finish, and a 337 filed saying the STC was installed. No entry in block 8 that says any STC was removed, or that any flight controls were balanced.

what is wrong with Picture?/Paper work?

What must I do next?
 
Tom-D said:
The aircraft is a PA 17, (Clipper) which in 1957 had the OEM dope and cotton removed and Super flite type 1 installed. (dope over Ceconite) and a 337 was filed placing the STC on record in history files, by approval of the local FSDO.

1977 the type one was removed and stitz was installed, no 337 or STC in the logs or history files with the aircraft.

2005 aircraft was restored and the covers replaced, using Poly Fiber and a acrylic urethane finish, and a 337 filed saying the STC was installed. No entry in block 8 that says any STC was removed, or that any flight controls were balanced.

what is wrong with Picture?/Paper work?

What must I do next?
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Since this is the internet, I'm going post my few thoughts on this even though I cannot speak authoritatively on this. I'm just an owner.

One more caveat: I'm going to make the mistake of applying logic and reasonable to FAA think.

If the latest STC install supercedes the previous STCs, then I'd expect that the lack of proper paperwork on the previous STCs is OBE.

If it was my airplane, I'd want my A&P to balance the control services (and of course I'd pay for it). I might even go so far as to contact the FSDO and ask if they want a corrected 337 indicating that previous STCs were removed.
 
You could do what 99% of IAs have done for decades with such scenarios. Realize it is not going to kill anyone, and ignore it!

Honestly, I think the paperwork burden the FAA puts on people is at times silly, and we might be better served to become practical about such matters.
 
Tom,

I think the easiest thing to do would fro you to become a repair station. Then you could sign off anything you want.
 
Tom-D said:
The aircraft is a PA 17, (Clipper) which in 1957 had the OEM dope and cotton removed and Super flite type 1 installed. (dope over Ceconite) and a 337 was filed placing the STC on record in history files, by approval of the local FSDO.

1977 the type one was removed and stitz was installed, no 337 or STC in the logs or history files with the aircraft.

2005 aircraft was restored and the covers replaced, using Poly Fiber and a acrylic urethane finish, and a 337 filed saying the STC was installed. No entry in block 8 that says any STC was removed, or that any flight controls were balanced.

what is wrong with Picture?/Paper work?

What must I do next?
Click to expand...

Quit working on crap that makes you have to post on an internet site looking for suggestions on how to bail your a$$ out of a problem.:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
Quit working on crap that makes you have to post on an internet site looking for suggestions on how to bail your a$$ out of a problem.:dunno:
Click to expand...

When
I post these did bits, I am hoping some one will learn.
 
N801BH said:
Quit working on crap that makes you have to post on an internet site looking for suggestions on how to bail your a$$ out of a problem.:dunno:
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Your post is totally uncalled for. Tom is certainly one of the most valuable contributors on this forum. You owe him an apology.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
You could do what 99% of IAs have done for decades with such scenarios. Realize it is not going to kill anyone, and ignore it!

Honestly, I think the paperwork burden the FAA puts on people is at times silly, and we might be better served to become practical about such matters.
Click to expand...

:yesnod:

Dr. Dave speaks the truth!
 
jbrrapa said:
Your post is totally uncalled for. Tom is certainly one of the most valuable contributors on this forum. You owe him an apology.
Click to expand...

He asked a question........... I gave my answer..............

I am not sure how the apology should be worded :dunno::dunno:..

Ps... I am impressed based on this is your second post on POA.:idea:
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
You could do what 99% of IAs have done for decades with such scenarios. Realize it is not going to kill anyone, and ignore it!

Honestly, I think the paperwork burden the FAA puts on people is at times silly, and we might be better served to become practical about such matters.
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Until the elevator flutters in a dive and the plane goes in.

When signing off the annual you buy the planes past, not its future.

I'd balance the controls and submit a new 337. Easy enough.
 
A PA-17 has balanced controls?
 
Tom posts these situations in the form of a question to make us think, i'm quite sure he knows the answer already.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
You missed the part about it being that way for 7 years.
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No I didn't, you missed the part that I get the crap for it, not the guy who did it 7 years ago.

Had to ding an owner who's plane had had the engine up STC incompletely installed (missing an external baffle) and had a prop installed inbetween the pitch for the OEM engine and the prop required for the bigger engine.

It had been like that longer than I've been alive. Still wrong and. If anything happend to it after I passed it off uncorrected my butt would be the one in the sling.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Tom posts these situations in the form of a question to make us think, I'm quite sure he knows the answer already.
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Yep.

Yes my next move is to get the CD from OKC and see how many 337s I'm missing.
None of the J-series or the PA-series up to the PA 22 have balanced flight controls.

All the tin ones do.

Ahh the first annual, I love the paper chase, of who screwed the pooch before we got here.

my problem is how many STC for cover systems can you have installed at the same time?

No one ever logged removing the prior covers. I know common sense says they had to come off, but still shouldn't it say " removed STC ___ and replaced fabric system with STC ___. and refinished in _Color_ and trimmed in _Color_. and reweighed the aircraft and computed new W&B. see sheet dated this date?

The W&B for the aircraft is the OEM from the Factory.

one of the reasons that the first annual by a new A&P-IA take so long.

Block 8 of the 337 what should it say?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Here is someone's, what do you think of it?
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that's pretty much what I'm used to seeing, some will put the color codes in some won't, it isn't required.

The FAAs short answer to my question "what should block 8 say" is, what you did.

Repairs to the aircraft during recover will not be mentioned on the 337 installing the STC, unless of course they them selves are a major, then they will need approved data to document as a reference.
 
And if the cd doesn't show the 337 on file then that's about what it would say, but I'd note that I inspected prev done work too rather than did it myself.
 
Skylane81E said:
And if the cd doesn't show the 337 on file then that's about what it would say, but I'd note that I inspected prev done work too rather than did it myself.
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Isn't that what an annual signature does ?
 
If there is no 337 on file for the recover are you going to claim it as your own work? Or on the 337 are you going to say that you inspected previously installed fabric and found it to be good?
 
Next question,

If the CD shows I'm not missing any entries, do I need to retro-fit any paper?
 
Print a copy, place it with the logs so that the next guy knows:dunno:

Seems that reading the instructions for the disposition of form 337 would yield the answer.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
You missed the part about it being that way for 7 years.
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If the plane has balanced controls, i'd like to know for sure they are balanced properly.

Lets say the airplane is approved for spins but the previous owner never spun it. The plane cruises at 105kts and has never exceeded 115kts in the last 7 years, but Vne is 140kts. What happens if I want to spin my approved airplane, botch the spin recovery a bit, hit 130kts and the elevator begins to flutter when i'm pulling up due to an improperly balanced control surface.

I don't want to become an amateur test pilot!
 
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dell30rb said:
If the plane has balanced controls, i'd like to know for sure they are balanced properly.

Lets say the airplane is approved for spins but the previous owner never spun it. The plane cruises at 105kts and has never exceeded 115kts in the last 7 years, but Vne is 140kts. What happens if I want to spin my approved airplane, botch the spin recovery a bit, hit 130kts and the elevator begins to flutter?
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You die, IA on the hook if true cause discovered.:wink2:
 
kgruber said:
Tom,

I think the easiest thing to do would fro you to become a repair station. Then you could sign off anything you want.
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Then I would be required to write a training syllabus for every job I do.

1 man CRS, dumb idea, due to the FAA dudes inspecting your paper work as they may please.

Or as Al at Savage mag said, I could not produce any mags because I was too busy complying with FAA Bovine scatology so I fired my self, and now I simply repair mags and send them out to be certified by the installer.
 
dell30rb said:
If the plane has balanced controls, i'd like to know for sure they are balanced properly.
Click to expand...

How would you know that?

dell30rb said:
Lets say the airplane is approved for spins but the previous owner never spun it. The plane cruises at 105kts and has never exceeded 115kts in the last 7 years, but Vne is 140kts. What happens if I want to spin my approved airplane, botch the spin recovery a bit, hit 130kts and the elevator begins to flutter when i'm pulling up due to an improperly balanced control surface.

I don't want to become an amateur test pilot!
Click to expand...

Do you remember we are talking about a PA 19 Clipper?
 
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