Panel-mount backup attitude options...

> "How come no one has mentioned the Dynon D2?"

I just mentioned it two posts earlier.

Nice instrument. Bought one recently for a ferry flight. Then sold it.

The only thing that bugs me about the D2 is that it is GPS-dependent for attitude information. Lose GPS signal for any reason and you've lost your horizon.

Trivial you might say . . . unless you happen to be in using the D2 in instrument conditions and lose your GPS signal.

I wonder if any of the Dynon EFIS panel-mount models are also GPS dependent for attitude?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
What's out there for electric backups? Everyone says Aspen, but just paid for an overhaul and don't have that much cash laying around. $5-6K, in that range. I am not overly comfortable flying IMC without some sort of backup in the event of a vacuum failure.

I do have a Stratus 2S and an ipad, but I am still thinking I'd like something permanently mounted. Not sure if a "conventional looking" electric AI or an EFIS-type presentation would be better.

Note: I'm not yet instrument rated, but will be soon. Blown engine sort of messed with my checkride plans:redface:
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Maybe I am missing the point here ... but don't you already have a backup for your gyros should your vacuum pump fail? The T&BC and magnetic compass. They are actually required for IFR flight.
There, no need to drop many AMUs. Your CFII will teach you (during your IR training) how to fly "partial panel" should you lose vacuum to your 2 gyros.
But again, I might be missing something.
 
I can fly partial panel, but I don't want to unless absolutely necessary.

That's the point of an electric backup.
 
James331 said:
Personally I'd go this route, WAAAAY more bang for the buck


http://www.grtavionics.com/mini-ga.html


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This thing is really cool. It would be nice to set in place of the vacuum AI and put the AI elsewhere...

BUT... I don't see that you can get airspeed or baro altimeter from it. That it only displays groundspeed and GPS altitude would be confusing information. I wonder if those functions can be turned off.
 
I've tried flying with just Foreflight syn vis (no AHRS) and it seems to work in a pinch... If your AI and TC both failed at once!
 
That I couldn't tell you. Piper autocontrol 2 with an stec altitude hold add on as well as GPSS.
 
MikeS said:
The only thing that bugs me about the D2 is that it is GPS-dependent for attitude information. Lose GPS signal for any reason and you've lost your horizon.
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How does a GPS tell you if you're inverted?
 
I see no reason a yoke mounted iPad with stratus / foreflight couldn't serve as a very solid backup. Partial panel with electric TC and magnetic compass would serve as 3rd backup if iPad went inop. I've flown with stratus 2 and foreflight synthetic vision with foggles and it's crazy how easy, intuitive, and accurate it is. No it's not certified for that but in an emergency where I lost a vacuum pump I could care less about certification. I just want to stay upright.
 
I owned and flew a Commander 112B Hotshot for six years. Because of the turbo standby vac from engine was not an option.
She came fitted with selector valve where I could switch over to vacuum from a venturi.
Very neatly mounted on the belly and worked perfectly. I had one vac pump failure and used the standby system, I would cover the HSI until wheels up and then uncover. It was always working well by then. Vac reading was just a little lower than the vac pump but worked the HSI and Century three very well.

I looked up the venturi and found that it cost $35.00.

My present Commander has the Aspen so no need for a backup.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken
 
Another option is the Xavion app. I have this and run it on an iphone 6. No external AHRS. Seems to work well. I have flown several approaches using its power-off glide feature and found its pretty much spot on. If you are flying above 5k, you're virtually always in gliding range of an airport.
 
Just to bump this for anyone interested, the avionics shop has stated that the Sandia unit would need a field approval from the local FSDO. Boo.

I'm leaning towards a conventional electric backup AI. Installation is simple, pull the TC and it goes in the same spot.. and two wires to hook up which are already there for the TC. They have several of them which were pulled from SR22s. 2K-ish I think, plus whatever credit I would receive for my TC.
 
Garmin G5. Placard it vfr only.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Just to bump this for anyone interested, the avionics shop has stated that the Sandia unit would need a field approval from the local FSDO. Boo.

I'm leaning towards a conventional electric backup AI. Installation is simple, pull the TC and it goes in the same spot.. and two wires to hook up which are already there for the TC. They have several of them which were pulled from SR22s. 2K-ish I think, plus whatever credit I would receive for my TC.
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LOL I knew that was too good to be true. Nevermind Spruce still shows it "no stock", and they've bumped up the stock date every 30 days since OCTOBER 2015! Shady. No thanks.

The way to go is like you said, second electric attitude indicator.
 
That or I will wait to see what the total cost of the new Dynon EFIS will be including the STC. It's also an attractive option.
 
You have the required vac powered AI instrument correct? Why bother with stc'd or TSO'd backup instrument? The whole reason behind the recent NORSEE (Non-required safety enhancement equipment) policy to to allow your a&p to install non-certified independent systems, with nothing more than a signature, that provide an extra layer of safety. Like electronic backup AI's.



But hey, it's your money.
 
The Dynon D10 would be the way to go. I don't know how much the STC is (probably $500-1000) but the D10 is a great instrument for $2200 plus you get airspeed, altimeter, VSI, turn coordinator, gyro compass, g meter, OAT, clock, volt meter, battery backup and an AOA. I have flown Dyno in several airplanes for over 10 years and they have all worked flawlessly. Don
 
Chip Sylverne said:
You have the required vac powered AI instrument correct? Why bother with stc'd or TSO'd backup instrument? The whole reason behind the recent NORSEE (Non-required safety enhancement equipment) policy to to allow your a&p to install non-certified independent systems, with nothing more than a signature, that provide an extra layer of safety. Like electronic backup AI's.



But hey, it's your money.
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Hey Chip, got a source for this "announcement"? Are you saying people can go install a cheapo falcon instruments non-tso electric attitude indicator in certified airplanes now? If that were true, you could install the Dynon without an STC, as long as you didn't replace anything in the original panel. Knowing the FAA, that just can't be right. But you send me a link and I'm sold! :D
 
The sticky part of that is you have to hardwire the stuff into your systems and that is going to require a field approval at the least. The thing that's nice with the Dynon is it is STC'd as a primary AI but it happens to have all of the other features that you can now use as long as your primary instruments are working. Don
 
Here's your link.

http://go.usa.gov/cuUbH

Seems to me that as long as the item fits the definition in the policy statement, has minor failure impact and is non-required, the path to installation is pretty clear.

Seems common sense is breaking out at the FAA.
 
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