Paint colors and safety

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4RNB

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4RNB
My plane is on the list for a new paint job. This will be done a reputable shop, full strip. I'd like some pointers or ideas on how to handle the color scheme.

Here is what I think I know:
Red fades faster.
Colors add expense.
Reflective or fluorescent does not really help visibility in the air.
I can find minimal studies as to what impacts visibility.
C172M

Here is what I would like to accomplish:
Look good.
Protect the plane.
Not get too freaky such as to impact resale value too much (selling plane not expected).
Increase safety through improving visibility.

I'm thinking to get all white, simple contrast color or two.
Perhaps make bottom of wings, fuselage, elevator a darker color to improve vis from below. Not in the blue/grey spectrum unless really dark.

References:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/AD0759419
full text: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0759419.pdf

https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/h0021963

What do you think?
 
For visibility, paint it whatever color you want and get some good LED strobes on the wingtips and tail.
Invasion stripes on the bottom would look cool :cool:
 
GeorgeC said:
For visibility, paint it whatever color you want and get some good LED strobes on the wingtips and tail.
Invasion stripes on the bottom would look cool :cool:
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LED done, wig wag and all.
What is an invasion stripe?

I expect there are some areas that the lights will not be visible from?
 
Yeah I agree, don’t think of paint as providing visibility. Unless you’re close enough to read registration numbers, it won’t make a difference. Like @GeorgeC said, get some good LED lighting.
 
A clean white belly looks great in @Lowflynjack air to airs. But a dark belly means you can get lazy.

It's your money. Put your favorite colors on it with some LEDs and wig wags to be seen.
 
RyanB said:
Yeah I agree, don’t think of paint as providing visibility. Unless you’re close enough to read registration numbers, it won’t make a difference. Like @GeorgeC said, get some good LED lighting.
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I am willing to accept the conclusion of the study (over and above what I think). White on top, black on bottom.
 
4RNB said:
What is an invasion stripe?
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Black and White stripes painted on the bottom (and sometimes tops) of Allied aircraft prior to D-Day to make it obvious to Allied anti-aircraft gunners that these are allied and not German planes.

168a4e0baeb80561edbd9657512e3a41.jpg
918937046cd293e870550a65c35094f4.jpg
 
I think paint colors have less of an impact on inflight visibility than they do on search-and-rescue. All-over white is not a great idea if most of your flying is in Alaska and you want somebody to find you if you're forced down. Likewise earthtones in the desert or dark colors in forested areas.

More often than not, aircraft that are a collision threat in flight are seen as sihouettes.

Don't go too crazy on the paint scheme - it could come back to bite when it comes time to sell.
 
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White or yellow on top, blue, black, or grey on bottom is the way to go. You're looking for contrast vs the background. Leading edges should be dark - that'll make you a darker "spot" in someone elses' windshield.
 
Keith Ferris (aviation artist) used to speak on camouflage and visibility but I can't find my references at the moment. Worth what you paid for it: From a visibility standpoint a few large areas of one or two colors are better than many smaller areas of color. Bright colors are better than muted. Unnatural colors are better than natural. Gloss is better than matte.

OTOH, this is hard to miss:
skyvan.jpg

Nauga,
reporting from the seen
 
I would steer clear of greens, and bright whites. An Off white would be more visible against the sky when viewed from below, over bright white, and also against the earth when viewed from above. Secondary colors could include belly of a darker color. But really, you should go with whatever you prefer. Airplanes can be difficult to spot from the air, regardless the color.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
This was absolutely my MO for dark blue on the bottom.

Dark top cowling was to reduce glare.
Click to expand...

I read about that also. Are you happy with dark top cowling?
Any regrets dark blue bottom?
 
MauleSkinner said:
My first total engine failure (75 feet, Vx on a go-around) was in a Pawnee that was painted thrush yellow with no trim color for visibility. It was definitely visible.
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Yeah, my first job in Alaska was flying canary yellow 207s.

Come to think of it, my last flight in Alaska was 16 years later in a yellow 207.
 
My thought about color too, has more to do with rescue, ground searching....
I'm thinking a bright "SNJ" yellow, but with orange highlights (like they put on military trainers now days)
 
4RNB said:
Look good.
Protect the plane.
Not get too freaky such as to impact resale value too much (selling plane not expected).
Increase safety through improving visibility.
Click to expand...
Paint it solid white and vinyl wrap to your heart's content?
 
4RNB said:
My plane is on the list for a new paint job. This will be done a reputable shop, full strip. I'd like some pointers or ideas on how to handle the color scheme.

Here is what I think I know:
Red fades faster.
Colors add expense.
Reflective or fluorescent does not really help visibility in the air.
I can find minimal studies as to what impacts visibility.
C172M

Here is what I would like to accomplish:
Look good.
Protect the plane.
Not get too freaky such as to impact resale value too much (selling plane not expected).
Increase safety through improving visibility.

I'm thinking to get all white, simple contrast color or two.
Perhaps make bottom of wings, fuselage, elevator a darker color to improve vis from below. Not in the blue/grey spectrum unless really dark.

References:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/AD0759419
full text: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0759419.pdf

https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/h0021963

What do you think?
Click to expand...

New paint formulas don't fade.

Check out Scott's new Tecnam P2010. If you want red, let 'er rip.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...d-new-tecnam-p2010.133681/page-9#post-3368049
 
Red paint is expensive, I agree on the scheme can’t be too strange. No nose art, hot pink, etc. Otherwise you will need to discount the plane so next owner can repaint it.
 
We paint airplanes every imaginable color. Candies? Pearls? Pinstripes and leafing? No problem! We are one of the few shops that enjoy doing custom paint with a close eye to weight and balance. That said, market demands are usually Matterhorn White with a couple of stripe colors, muted and predictable, because of some fear of resale or some thought of it affecting resale value.

One thing we do at times is when an airplane is to be offered for sale, the airplane is painted in Imron Matterhorn white with the scheme left up to the buyer with consideration for the price of paint. Retail on a gallon of Matterhorn white is:

1d289d533e9f8bd60bac05009b2c8705.jpg



Red?

cfe2701beea989faba0a241beed5a9ce.jpg


We far enjoy when someone wants to paint their forever airplane and have a scheme that is different and enjoyable to them. Some layouts do take considerable time. While these days we often try to be as efficient as possible and get a normal simple airplane out in 2-3 weeks, we hear of several shops that take the better part of 2 months or even longer to paint a normal single engine airplane with a several month or even a year waitlist.
 
Llk said:
We paint airplanes every imaginable color. Candies? Pearls? Pinstripes and leafing? No problem! We are one of the few shops that enjoy doing custom paint with a close eye to weight and balance. That said, market demands are usually Matterhorn White with a couple of stripe colors, muted and predictable, because of some fear of resale or some thought of it affecting resale value.

One thing we do at times is when an airplane is to be offered for sale, the airplane is painted in Imron Matterhorn white with the scheme left up to the buyer with consideration for the price of paint. Retail on a gallon of Matterhorn white is:

1d289d533e9f8bd60bac05009b2c8705.jpg



Red?

cfe2701beea989faba0a241beed5a9ce.jpg


We far enjoy when someone wants to paint their forever airplane and have a scheme that is different and enjoyable to them. Some layouts do take considerable time. While these days we often try to be as efficient as possible and get a normal simple airplane out in 2-3 weeks, we hear of several shops that take the better part of 2 months or even longer to paint a normal single engine airplane with a several month or even a year waitlist.
Click to expand...


Any opinion on paint choices related to visibility and safety?
2 yr wait for us due to corrosion x
 
For those who want to experiment, go golfing.
Based on my experience with colored golf balls, red is the worst (any earth tones), even the hi visibility yellows don’t seem better than normal bright white except in low light conditions. It really depends on the background, if landing in a field of white wildflowers, then maybe red will stand out.

Airborne, then LEDs, wig wag the front facing lights (supposedly scares birds away) are your best options.
 
The only color scheme I've actually noticed stand out is a bright yellow cub. Unfortunately that only looks good on a cub. As mentioned white works well against the ground and black against the sky. I presume the military high-vis scheme (think navy trainers) was picked for visibility.

Think about being able to pick out your plane on the ground from a rescue helicopter or CAP plane. White is hard to beat for the most part. Bright reds and yellows stand out.

One thing I've seen that I'll consider if I ever paint a plane is black leading edges and other surfaces that might pick up ice. Doesn't help as much with clear ice, but rime really stands out. It would be harder to touch up and keep looking nice though. Matte black would be easier to touch up, show clear ice, and reduce glare, but hard to make it look pretty.

Ease of touch up is another thing to consider. Matterhorn white is literally everywhere, in every shop. Rustoleum "Appliance white" is a good approximation cheaply available in spray can and touch up bottle. Any other color (except maybe black) is much harder to touch up.

White shows smoking rivets and cracks well. Stays looking clean and doesn't show water spots. Rejects heat. Lots of reasons it's the "default" color. I like the dark colored belly idea. Adding that to the list.
 
First, congrats on having a plane and getting it painted.

Second, what exactly are you meaning when you say "visibility and safety"?

If you mean, "I want people in the air to see me and not crash into me", it seems that there are a lot of variables there. Are they viewing it from above or below? From the left or the right? Is the sun behind you, or is the sun setting? All of these things will play a part in what color would be most visible. Then there is the reality that things happen. I refer to the collision involving the B-17 recently. The other pilot certainly knew where the B-17 was, but got himself in a bad spot and still hit it. To fly is to risk mid air collisions. I don't know of any pilot reports that have said "Thank God that plane was < x color> or I would have hit it!!" My experience is that human eyes are more drawn to movement than color.

If you mean, "I want people to be able to find me if I make a non-airport landing" then the question involves where are you going to be flying? If over the lower 48, I'd most stay away from colors you see when you look down. Green, brown, those. If in Alaska, I'd stay away from white.

But, if at the end of the day, you absolutely must have a color on your plane that makes you breathe easy, I'd go w/ the color current road construction crews wear. The florescent green / yellow. They absolutely have an interest in being seen and not hit.
 
By the people post, I would start to think that alaska is buried in snow all year long.
 
4RNB said:
I read about that also. Are you happy with dark top cowling?
Any regrets dark blue bottom?
Click to expand...

No regrets on the colors. Which we had done something a little nicer with the stripes. We did the top of the tail and wingtips in blue too. We think the contrast helps a bit with being easier to see, but who knows. We have metallic silver accent stripes too. Top cowling being dark takes a little more maintenance to keep it looking nice, but it's hangared, and doing a little polish wax a few times year on the cowling is easy enough.

Our plane definitely is prone to blowing oil out the breather if it gets overfilled even a little bit, so the dark belly really helps hide that...

Our blue is a metallic "Concord Blue", which I still think is a really nice color, even after 18 years. It looks almost purple early in the day and the evening (like a concord grape).
 
For safety and visibility I went with white (cooler in the summer heat of the Carolinas) with a large orange spinner and checkered tail with stripes on the fuse. But like others have noted, I don't believe the color is going to make that much difference so paint it so that you like what you see. I do like the idea about dark areas on the bottom being painted a dark color though I didn't do that.

As for seeing and being seen I have a tail & belly strobe, extremely bright LED wig-wag lights that I use when in high traffic areas, a radio to monitor for other planes, ADSB to assist in finding other planes and a head on a swivel looking outside for anyone that wants to trade paint unannounced.
 
4RNB said:
Any opinion on paint choices related to visibility and safety?
2 yr wait for us due to corrosion x
Click to expand...

Not the cheapest or easiest to paint, but silver vases tend to reflect and sparkle….with metallic grime like red or other non green colors. There are some stunning jobs out with silver bade, I’ve see. With red, black and even champagne trim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jim K said:
The only color scheme I've actually noticed stand out is a bright yellow cub. Unfortunately that only looks good on a cub.
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That's what I thought, and I have a Cub. We figured that looking good is less important than being seen when you need to, particularly if you are in the trees somewhere, so a few years ago we painted the C206 primarily in yellow. Turns out that I really like the way it looks now and it actually is easier to see in the pattern, where visibility counts the most IMHO. Fall in Vermont is when it blends in with the trees, but that's only for a short period of time, same as the Cub.

front.jpg
 
Light blue on the bottom, mottled olive drab and light brown on the top.

:)

Seriously, I think yellow and lighter oranges tend to stand out well. I'll stand up for the minority and say that I don't think yellow generally looks bad either. :) Do you think Southwest planes are easier to spot than Delta?
 
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