Painful but funny Student radio work - Joplin MO

denverpilot

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The instructor has to take most of the hit for this one, methinks.

But “you didn’t ask!”... I about spit out my coffee.


It’s a disaster pretty much the whole time.
 
not funny....tragic. i get that first solo can be nerve wracking..i'm assuming this was her first solo (if it wasn't that just makes it worse)...but c'mon. her radio skills sound like this was her discovery flight.
 
That's all on the instructor. 100%. I'm betting the instructor either did all the radio calls pre-solo, or told her exactly what to say before each call. I feel for her, and I hope she was able to find a competent instructor who could actually teach.
 
That's all on the instructor. 100%. I'm betting the instructor either did all the radio calls pre-solo, or told her exactly what to say before each call. I feel for her, and I hope she was able to find a competent instructor who could actually teach.
+1
 
Someone needs to have a talk with her instructor.
 
I couldn't decide if this was her first solo or first time at a towered airport. I can't imagine it was both.
 
In all fairness, the other incoming flight couldn't get the altimeter.

That said. Wow... I'm rusty. Buuut even I wouldn't mess up that bad... And if airport unfamiliar I'd certainly ask for progressive taxi..

And, don't think I'd answer anything with "okay."

Surely, I wouldn't do that.... Roger?
 
I couldn't decide if this was her first solo or first time at a towered airport. I can't imagine it was both.
I got the feeling it was her first time at a towered airport, not her first solo.

She didn’t have a melt-down but when she got confused it seemed to snowball.
 
Almost as bad as this exchange between KTKI clearance delivery and a Mooney pilot...

 
Sounded like she was there just to get the required 3 to/landings with a tower. Her unpreparedness is on the instructor. But she was obviously confused and the controller didn't make it better. And she's not wrong about the controller making assumptions about where she was going.
 
But she was obviously confused and the controller didn't make it better.

He recognized she was confused and tried to give her progressive taxi instructions to the runway, one turn at a time and she managed to screw that up. If you were the controller, how would you have "made it better"? I will give you the fact that the ground controller didn't verify her intentions before she contacted the tower, or at least that wasn't on the recording. But that is usually handled before taxi clearance is given but when the recording is first broadcast, she is ready to taxi. I don't know how many times I've realized that I just can't reach out and fly it for 'em.
 
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When tower reads the new ATIS and she treats it like some sort of taxi clearance.... I guess??

That whole thing was really hard to listen to.
 
I almost pinged you on the OP @Timbeck2 - I was looking forward to your comment! LOL.

I’m sure the controller went home that day thinking, yup... it was nice and quiet until...
 
I almost pinged you on the OP @Timbeck2 - I was looking forward to your comment! LOL.

I’m sure the controller went home that day thinking, yup... it was nice and quiet until...

I realize that any comment I make isn't going to change anyone's mind (see my signature line) but it irks me when the controller is blamed on a one sided or in this case, incomplete, story. Almost everyone on this forum knows what its like to be in an aircraft getting clearances, taxiing to the runway, etc. But very few here know what its like to be in an ATC facility where you have to handle multiple aircraft, radios, telephones, hot lines, shout lines with clearances that don't show up, you're covering another position for a controller who went to the restroom, and then there's the guy knocking on the door that needs to get up to the roof to check antennas, etc.

I don't know that controller's story but based on what I heard, I'd say he handled her the best way he could in a professional manner. She on the other hand, seems to need a lot more training before she is turned loose on her own.
 
A contributing factor might have been the controller transposing the last two digits in the callsign to 36B from 63B. N8236B shows three de-registered aircraft, a Bell 430, a PA-32, and a PA-44. N8263B shows a C-172 (with a Colorado address, a long way from Joplin). The Mooney tape was also…"entertaining".
 
A contributing factor might have been the controller transposing the last two digits in the callsign to 36B from 63B. N8236B shows three de-registered aircraft, a Bell 430, a PA-32, and a PA-44. N8263B shows a C-172 (with a Colorado address, a long way from Joplin). The Mooney tape was also…"entertaining".

It looks like the Colorado move is relatively recent. It was based in Rolla, MO before coming here.

(You had me scrambling to see if that was a local flight school airplane and who’s because I didn’t look it up. LOL )
 
I don't know that controller's story but based on what I heard, I'd say he handled her the best way he could in a professional manner.

No argument here! I was more wondering if you’ve ever had a “sassy” student like that before. Ha.

Around here he would have had to work her to the first landing and probably gotten her parked somewhere awaiting lulls in traffic and such and worrying because he’d run her out of gas. There wouldn’t be much spare time for all that hand holding with our traffic levels.

Seemed lucky she did it somewhere quieter like Joplin, to me... just because of long term being used to our faster cadence.
 
A contributing factor might have been the controller transposing the last two digits in the callsign to 36B from 63B. N8236B shows three de-registered aircraft, a Bell 430, a PA-32, and a PA-44. N8263B shows a C-172 (with a Colorado address, a long way from Joplin). The Mooney tape was also…"entertaining".

Yeah. Over and over again but I don't think that had anything to do with the fiasco. She kept calling herself 63B and him 36B. I only made to about 3:45 and then quit listening. Did they ever get that resolved? Did she get her 3 landings done?
 
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The instructor has to take most of the hit for this one, methinks.

But “you didn’t ask!”... I about spit out my coffee.


It’s a disaster pretty much the whole time.

Is this real, or some made up thing to make it funny?
 
Cringe worthy. Kudos to ATC for not tearing her apart. Her CFI should get lashed.
 
Is this real, or some made up thing to make it funny?

Judging by where I originally got the link from and the audio quality and such, I’d say real.

I mean, I’m an IT Security guy so I’ll never fully rule out the possibility of a deep fake on ANY online media... but yeah, it’s real.
 
That's all on the instructor. 100%. I'm betting the instructor either did all the radio calls pre-solo, or told her exactly what to say before each call. I feel for her, and I hope she was able to find a competent instructor who could actually teach.
I would be embarrassed as an instructor, BUT I've also had students behave very oddly when they were by themselves. Things can happen when people are solo and nervous.
 
Not sure where this student had trained. In an earlier post I noticed that Joplin is the only non-C towered airport in a large area. That CFI probably used Joplin quite a bit for students to get their towered flights in.

I dunno what happened. Do CFIs usually wait close to the checkride for those flights?
 
I dunno what happened. Do CFIs usually wait close to the checkride for those flights?

Most syllabuses no.

My initial reaction was “she’s never been there”.

If you’re teaching in a building block fashion there would be ground school discussing the topic, a trip with the CFI to a towered airport, demos, now do some yourself, etc... before you signed them off to go do it the first time by themselves.

Not to mention a little help with the flight planning that would include looking at the taxi diagram and understanding at least the concepts of where you might be going and what it would all look like. Runway markings, taxiway markings, etc.

Can’t run before you walk.

The instructor didn’t prepare her correctly.

I hate to say it but the briefing about the towered airport probably went something like this...

“Do what they tell you, don’t let the controller fly the plane, and you’ll be fine.”

I hope it was more and the student forgot in the heat of battle, but my gut says it was something about as bad as that.

The getting lost, controller assisting with progressives, maybe happens occasionally.

We also teach to just say the magic words “student pilot”. The controller isn’t a mind reader. All controllers understand those two words. You don’t have to remember hard words like “progressive taxi” under stress. KISS principal.

Heck a twenty year pilot can say “student pilot” if they want to. It’ll work if you want to convey a sense of WTF to any controller.

Okay maybe don’t say it at the main airport of a Bravo. Hahahaha.
 
Another bang up job by a CFI that doesn’t teach, just logs hours.
 
Judging by where I originally got the link from and the audio quality and such, I’d say real.

I mean, I’m an IT Security guy so I’ll never fully rule out the possibility of a deep fake on ANY online media... but yeah, it’s real.

There doesn't seem to be any cessna with a registration of N8236B.
 
There doesn't seem to be any cessna with a registration of N8236B.

Maybe not, but there is a Cessna N8263B, and that is the plane that was involved, at least according to the student's initial callup. 6 3 not 3 6


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I feel sorry for the student pilot. I agree her instructor dropped the ball.
 
It’s been 25+ years since I’ve instructed, but... if I’m going to sign off a student for solo at a towered airport, you can bet I’ve thoroughly evaluated their skills in taking to the tower. Perfection is not expected. Competence is.
 
Still haven't been able to listen to the whole thing. First time through I got maybe 20 seconds in. I don't want to be too harsh, but she sounds like a typical teenage girl with her vernacular and radio calls. With that said, does anyone remember the incident where the tower told the pilot "you will land here, and must call an instructor". I'm not saying that was right, but that's almost what needed to happen here. Controller did everything he could, gave a progressive and still goofed. It happens, but... that was bad
 
I think ATC supervisor should be placing a call to the flight school about sending students there without training. That was painful and I felt bad for the student - she was not ready to be in that environment. I still use a knee board and when given taxi instructions write them down. It sounds like she was just trying to remember what was said - and with her nerves she couldn’t process that info. She was not ready for this task.


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There are solo nerves but she was IMO not taught radio procedures very well. Maybe she was getting lessons at a non towered airport before they came to Joplin for tower work? The plane was apparently from Rolla which is not towered and fairly easy to taxi around.
 
I think ATC supervisor should be placing a call to the flight school about sending students there without training. That was painful and I felt bad for the student - she was not ready to be in that environment. I still use a knee board and when given taxi instructions write them down. It sounds like she was just trying to remember what was said - and with her nerves she couldn’t process that info. She was not ready for this task.


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Not all students use a flight school. This sounded like her first time at that airport, which shouldn't happen on a solo. But then again if the instructor just did things for her she wasn't going to learn anything. I know if I use a gps in the car and just turn when it says to, I'll need it the next time I want to go to that same place. In trade school their was a kid that couldn't get a neutral flame on a torch. Just couldn't get the concept. I tried to show him, instructor came over and said let him struggle. Sometimes you have to struggle to figure things out on your own. I hope this student learned things, or at least had more questions to ask after this. I definitely wasn't laughing however. Felt more empathy for her being put in a strange and stressful situation where she was clearly unprepared. And that's not her fault
 
I've heard worse from old guys flying around.

Late one night, I'm coming back from across The Lake and I hear this exchange:

Old Codger: "Muskegon Approach."
MKG APP: "Aircraft calling Muskegon, go ahead."
OC: "yeah, um.....uh.....I would like.....ummm...flight....uh....following."
MA: "What is your tail number, aircraft type, location, requested altitude, and destination?"
OC: "Um......uh......12345"
MA: "I also need your aircraft type, current location, requested altitude and destination."
OC: "[Aircraft type]"
MA: "N12345 say location, requested altitude and destination."
OC: "Uh.....um......15.....north."
I could send the exasperation from the controller.
MA: "12345 Squawk 1234"
MA: "I show you as 15 south of Muskegon."

It continued, and didn't get any better. The old guy could only give them one piece of the request at a time.
 
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