PA32-300. Am I a Cherokee or a Saratoga?

simie1 said:
I'm pretty clear about being a Skylane but probably a third or more of the time they just use Skyhawk - generic I guess.
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I think Skyhawk is the default. I've been called Skyhawk more than once in a mooney, eventually a controller will notice the speed and ask "are you really a Skyhawk?".
 
While flying the Comanche cross-country, I've been called Cherokee, Lance, Seneca, and Mooney, all on the same trip. I didn't sweat it until he said Mooney, then I just called to confirm my tail was indeed still facing the right direction! :D
 
Will Kumley said:
Like the PA28?
Cherokee Cruiser
Cherokee
Cherokee Warrior
Warrior II
Warrior III
Archer
Archer II
Archer III
Dakota
Turbo Dakota
Cherokee Pathfinder

Pretty sure I saw a YT video of Christy Wong saying she refers to her Warrior as a Cherokee as "Warrior" would sometimes even confuse other pilots when they thought they were looking at a Cherokee in the pattern.
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You missed a few... :) It is a long list.
 
joycem137 said:
I've seen other Cherokee Six pilots calling their bird a Saratoga, so I suppose this makes sense. It's quite similar to a Saratoga.
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When I flew a Cherokee Six, I "upgraded" it to Saratoga on the radio. Couple reasons: primarily because the tail number was N694DB but also because it is easier to say and understand and ends up with the same code in the system. "Cherokee Six Six Niner Four Hotel Bravo" is just a confusing mess to say with the two sixes next to each other meaning different things. I did have one controller correct me at its home airport of PAO with "Isn't that a Cherokee Six?" so I briefly explained. Unsurprising, as I'm sure he'd heard other renters call it by the Cherokee Six name.

KHWD's smaller runway is still 3100'. It's plenty and then some for a Six at sea level, though that plane is not a good climber. Took the one mentioned into Reno on a hot day and left near gross... I made it back home, but I circled the entire Minden valley in a giant arc to get high enough to pop over the Sierras and get back. I miss that plane. Unfortunately, the owner was losing money hand over fist trying to keep it as a leaseback...too few pilots went through the hoops to check out on it, then those that did flew it infrequently (myself included). Would lose even more today, as it was a real seven seat model and that wipes off all the pilots on Basic Med.
 
David235 said:
You missed a few... :) It is a long list.
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I was trying to only go with the non retracts but yes I still missed a few. While looking at future ideas of planes to purchase I realized that there are really a metric ton of different names to search for and not all sites use the same phraseology. For example if I look on Trade a Plane, I can look up PA-28's, Archers, Dakotas, and Warriors all separately even though they are all PA-28's. Jumping into the 32 category just proved its a piper thing and when the time does come to look into purchasing or going in on a partnership I'll have to keep the net broad to capture everything with similar missions.
 
I fly an Arrow. Sometimes they call me a Cherokee, even if I am going a lot* faster than a Cherokee should. I like to imagine the look on their faces when I show up without any wheels.

* 3 knots
 
iamtheari said:
I fly an Arrow. Sometimes they call me a Cherokee, even if I am going a lot* faster than a Cherokee should. I like to imagine the look on their faces when I show up without any wheels.

* 3 knots
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I always respond “P28B” when queried on type. Like the Arrow, Cherokee 235s have (slightly) better performance than the “normal” “P28A” variety Cherokees. Over my 40+ year flying career, I have found that the simplest answer to the ATC question posed by the OP is the appropriate FAA type designator, and nothing more.
 
For all of my Cherokee Six time, “Cherokee” worked. Occasionally a controller would ask what kind of Cherokee, probably more out of interest in airplanes than anything else. In the Lance I said “Lance”, and in the Saratoga I said “Saratoga”.

I did have one Center controller keep calling me a Citation when I was in a Falcon, but a simple “Roger dodger, ground control, Falcon...” on one of my replies cured that. ;)
 
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MauleSkinner said:
I did have one Center controller keep calling me a Citation when I was in a Falcon, but a simple “Roger dodger, ground control, Falcon...” on one of my replies cured that.
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You were in a SpaceX Falcon rather than a Dassault Falcon?
 
Will Kumley said:
Like the PA28?
Cherokee Cruiser
Cherokee
Cherokee Warrior
Warrior II
Warrior III
Archer
Archer II
Archer III
Dakota
Turbo Dakota
Cherokee Pathfinder

Pretty sure I saw a YT video of Christy Wong saying she refers to her Warrior as a Cherokee as "Warrior" would sometimes even confuse other pilots when they thought they were looking at a Cherokee in the pattern.
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Warrior II - is it an airplane or is it a yoga pose?

Yoga_Warrior-2_Exercise.jpg
 
Rgbeard said:
unless you’re a P32T.
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Rusty, does the PA-32T have a hershey bar wing or a tapered wing?

EDIT - It looks like the Lance still had the constant chord hershey bar wing and the taper wing was introduced in the Saratoga in 1980.
 
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Stan Cooper said:
Rusty, does the PA-32T have a hershey bar wing or a tapered wing?
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"P32T" is the ICAO designator for the T-tail Lance II, PA-32RT-300 and turbocharged PA-32RT-300T, both with Hershey-bar wings (1978-79). All of the production T-tail Lances had Hershey-bar wings.

But as Paul Harvey would say, "here is the rest of the story ... "

The 1980 model retractable was supposed to have been the PA-32RT-301 and -301T, dubbed "Lance III". It was like the Lance II, but with Saratoga-style tapered wings and a longer stabilator on the T-tail. A 1978 Turbo Lance II, N20816 (coincidentally the one on the production line just before Rusty's N20817) was pulled off the line and modified to become the Turbo Lance III prototype. Suddenly, though, Piper decided to go back to the low tail, and N20816 had a quick T-tail-ectomy and became the first PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP.

Just today on Facebook a former Piper marketing executive posted that he flew N20816 as a Lance III back in the day. When Engineering sent him the data sheets he ran the W&B and found he could not load more than five people in it and stay within the CG envelope. He called corporate and the Lance III project was canceled. That was on a Thursday, he said, and by Monday N20816 was ready to fly with a low tail. According to Roger Peperell's exhaustive book on the history of Piper designs, some 35 Lance IIIs either completed or under construction had to be modified to low-tail (Saratoga) configuration to start the 1980 model year.
 
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Pilawt said:
"P32T" is the ICAO designator for the T-tail Lance II, PA-32RT-300 and turbocharged PA-32RT-300T, both with Hershey-bar wings (1978-79). All of the production T-tail Lances had Hershey-bar wings.

But as Paul Harvey would say, "here is the rest of the story ... "

The 1980 model retractable was supposed to have been the PA-32RT-301 and -301T, dubbed "Lance III". It was like the Lance II, but with Saratoga-style tapered wings and a longer stabilator on the T-tail. A 1978 Turbo Lance II, N20816 (coincidentally the one on the production line just before Rusty's N20817) was pulled off the line and modified to become the Turbo Lance III prototype. Suddenly, though, Piper decided to go back to the low tail, and N20816 had a quick T-tail-ectomy and became the first PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP.

Just today on Facebook a former Piper marketing executive posted that he flew N20816 back in the day. When Engineering sent him the data sheets he ran the W&B and found he could not load more than five people in it and stay within the CG envelope. He called corporate and the Lance III project was canceled. That was on a Thursday, he said, and by Monday N20816 was ready to fly with a low tail. According to Roger Peperell's exhaustive book on the history of Piper designs, some 35 Lance IIIs either completed or under construction had to be modified to low-tail (Saratoga) configuration to start the 1980 model year.
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Thanks, Jeff; that's a great history lesson.

Can we agree though that the controller who admonished Robin (@joycem137) that although her/his/their 1976 PA-32-300 is a Cherokee Six that it was really a Saratoga could have been a little more diplomatic? ;)
 
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I usually call my PA32-300 a Cherokee but sometimes ATC will refer to it as Saratoga. If you use Saratoga they KNOW it is a PA32 and not a PA28, it you say Cherokee it could be either. So they know you will be 15-25 knots faster I guess...??? I dunno.
 
chemgeek said:
ATC calls all AA-5X aircraft Tigers even if they are Cheetahs or Travelers. But my Traveler doesn't go any faster when you call it a Tiger. :(
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When I fly the club’s Tiger I just call up with Tiger xxxxx. On one occasion a controller wanted to know the exact type.

I don’t know how the equipment in control towers works but maybe this is one of those things that a little cross-training between pilots and controllers could go a long way.

When I fly the 150 (based out of a bravo) I tell clearance I’m a Cessna 150. Sometimes they ask what the plane is exactly and then I say it’s a “Commuter”, and add it’s reallllllly slow.
 
woodchucker said:
When I fly the club’s Tiger I just call up with Tiger xxxxx. On one occasion a controller wanted to know the exact type.
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Years ago when I owned a Grumman-American Cheetah I was flying through northern California when wildfires were afoot nearby. Redding is a base for California Dept. of Forestry aircraft, at that time including several exotic Grumman warbird types. It must have been for that reason that Center asked me, "Say type Grumman ... " Just another Grumman cat up here. :D

When I fly the 150 (based out of a bravo) I tell clearance I’m a Cessna 150. Sometimes they ask what the plane is exactly and then I say it’s a “Commuter”, and add it’s reallllllly slow.
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For most of the C-150's 18-year production run, "Commuter" was just the name of an option package. You could order your 150 in one of three trim/option levels -- "Standard", "Trainer" or "Inter-City Commuter", later shortened to "Commuter". Only during the last year or two of the C-150's production did Cessna advertising call the airplane the "Cessna Commuter". I imagine if someone simply called up as "Commuter 12345," a Cessna 150 would not be the first thing the controller would think of.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
I usually call my PA32-300 a Cherokee but sometimes ATC will refer to it as Saratoga. If you use Saratoga they KNOW it is a PA32 and not a PA28, it you say Cherokee it could be either. So they know you will be 15-25 knots faster I guess...??? I dunno.
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so what difference does it make?....15-25 knots ain't nothing. They look the same from 1/2 mile....
 
It is pretty hard to visual tell the 4 seat Grummans apart. You'd really need to focus in on the tail to tell a Traveler from a Tiger or Cheetah or know the different tail number combos (98xxU and 26xxx for Cheetahs, etc). The difference is in speed and climb rate.
 
My Cherokee is a Challenger according to Piper. I have chosen to use Cherokee with ATC so they don’t worry I’ll exceed speed restrictions.
I’ve had two different passengers ask me why I say Turkey before my N number.
 
I am one of those years where I am a Cherokee Lance. Sorry....gonna be Lance or Saratoga for me.
 
Tantalum said:
Now I want to buy one of the last 3(?) Starships still flying just to hear ATC call me "Starship"
https://www.aspendailynews.com/news...cle_0c21b996-b3e9-11e8-8bd0-d7eb705988c1.html

so.freaking.cool.
View attachment 88407



Speaking of weird planes of yonder.. you guys remember "ADAM" - .. that's gotta be a weird ATC call sign too "Adam..."
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I got to be a pax on a Starship maint flight, many, many years ago.

Neat as heck, but far noisier than it should have been.

I treasure the memory!
 
Update: I'm calling up as a Saratoga to Hayward now. "Saratoga 7008F, inbound for landing"

Somehow, this has *increased* the confusion, as they're now describing me as a Cessna to other traffic. As I was departing KHWD this Sunday, they called me a Cessna, a Piper, and one other aircraft.

:rolleyes:
 
joycem137 said:
Update: I'm calling up as a Saratoga to Hayward now. "Saratoga 7008F, inbound for landing"

Somehow, this has *increased* the confusion, as they're now describing me as a Cessna to other traffic. As I was departing KHWD this Sunday, they called me a Cessna, a Piper, and one other aircraft.

:rolleyes:
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Well then, I vote you call yourself "Airplane 7008F"
 
Will Kumley said:
Well then, I vote you call yourself "Airplane 7008F"
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Technically, I think it's supposed to be "November 7008F". But then I suppose the controllers might accidentally use "glider" or "airship".
 
asicer said:
Technically, I think it's supposed to be "November 7008F". But then I suppose the controllers might accidentally use "glider" or "airship".
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Maybe go with "Glider 7008F." If they question you, just explain, "I'm planning ahead. I thought that was encouraged."
 
joycem137 said:
Update: I'm calling up as a Saratoga to Hayward now. "Saratoga 7008F, inbound for landing"

Somehow, this has *increased* the confusion, as they're now describing me as a Cessna to other traffic. As I was departing KHWD this Sunday, they called me a Cessna, a Piper, and one other aircraft.

:rolleyes:
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That's funny. The ICAO Type Identifier for my AMD CH601XL Zodiac is CH60. On initial contact with ATC I always say I'm "Experimental Zodiac Six Zero One Kilo Echo slash Uniform." Then I'm invariably asked "Type Aircraft" and usually reply "It's a light sport airplane, ICAO Type Identifier Charley Hotel Six Zero."

The next thing I know, ATC is calling me out to other traffic as a Sikorsky Black Hawk helicopter, which has an ICAO ID of H60. This has happened more than once. Naturally, I explain I'm a little 2 place airplane, not a turbine powered military helicopter.
 
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