If the radio is even capable of that. I expect they're using something along the lines of business radios that wouldn't even transmit on an aviation frequency.
PA28 Fatal, Panama City, 6/6
- Thread starter Kenny Phillips
- Start date
If the radio is even capable of that. I expect they're using something along the lines of business radios that wouldn't even transmit on an aviation frequency.
AlphaMike
Line Up and Wait
yes, I usually do a 360 at the run up area if there’s room. Looking for parts or puddles.
Turbo-Arrow-Driver
Pre-takeoff checklist
Looks like prelim is out, see KR for text and photo of oil puddle on ramp. Oil may have drained through hole in crankcase, but that's not entirely clear from the report. Video from FBO shows pilot may have skipped pre-flight inspection of engine/cowling area. Hard to believe that amount of oil on the ground was missed, but it is not clear if this puddle existed prior to engine start.
Edit: the leak could have been from a fractured copper line to the oil pressure sensor, and the hole in the crankcase happened when the #4 cylinder connecting rod bearing locked up and the connecting rod cap broke off...?
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2022/06/piper-pa-28rt-201-arrow-iv-n160ll-fatal.html
Edit: the leak could have been from a fractured copper line to the oil pressure sensor, and the hole in the crankcase happened when the #4 cylinder connecting rod bearing locked up and the connecting rod cap broke off...?
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2022/06/piper-pa-28rt-201-arrow-iv-n160ll-fatal.html
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If true, there may not have been much (or any) oil on the ground before he started up and taxied away. It’s not always practical to look back at the parking spot.
"Examination of the pavement in the parking area of the FBO revealed a trail of oil drops that led to a small puddle of oil where the airplane was initially parked. A second larger area of oil staining that measured about 6 ft by 6 ft, was found at the 2nd parking location (where the airplane had been moved by the FBO personnel), which was where the pilot conducted his walk-around and loaded passengers before he started the engine for taxi and takeoff."
This is what I find most disturbing in the report.
This is what I find most disturbing in the report.
Turbo-Arrow-Driver
Pre-takeoff checklist
Wish we had more...like photos of the drops and the "small puddle". I don't know that particular engine, but with at least four valve covers, 16 pushrod tube O-rings, etc...it's often difficult to keep them entirely leak free (I can attest to this with the Continental TSIO-360 in the Turbo Arrow IV). Without photos or more descriptive text, it's hard to know if the amount of oil in the drops and initial small puddle was enough that it should have caused concern. Also, with the large pool of oil likely destroying the evidence of what existed before engine start it's hard to know what that looked like too.
TrueCourse
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Those drops to the first parking spot could have been very subtle, but enough to catch the investigators attention. However, I can’t imagine the pilot not seeing the larger oil staining and actually inspect the cowling or further, so the blowout after start up seems plausible. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. Some ramps have plenty of oil stains, but if it’s same day oil it should look fresh and get the pilots attention. Does the Turbo Arrow have the clamshell cowling for easy inspection, or is it buttoned up with only oil the dipstick and filler door(s)? I have forgotten.
Turbo-Arrow-Driver
Pre-takeoff checklist
Removing the top cowling half requires undoing about 15-20 half-turn fasteners. Just a door top-center for access to oil filler cap and dipstick. With two valve covers per cylinder, it's a bit more leak prone than some engines.
Not so, this airplane had the same cowling as the Archer and most other taper-wing Piper singles. The top half of the cowl is removed simply by four half turn fasteners, then unlatch and lift on the aft portion of the cowl and slide off.
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Jim
Turbo-Arrow-Driver
Pre-takeoff checklist
TrueCourse was asking about the cowl on the Turbo Arrow IV -- not the Arrow IV. The turbo model has a different cowl -- no hump in the middle, and different attachment.
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)
Line Up and Wait
Not a Piper expert but I've only seen Cherokees with the lift up cowling (4 wing nut type - 2 on either side of the cowling).
I've never flown an Arrow, but I have a handful of Archers (-181) and all had the more streamlined cowling. Could only look in the oil check hole (removing the cowling would have been involved, at least as a renter).
1978, 1984 and 2001 models.
I've never flown an Arrow, but I have a handful of Archers (-181) and all had the more streamlined cowling. Could only look in the oil check hole (removing the cowling would have been involved, at least as a renter).
1978, 1984 and 2001 models.
TrueCourse
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TrueCourse
Oh, I’ve gone done it. Both of you are right. My apologies. The Turbo Arrow was on my mind and I asked about it, also thinking it was the type in this accident. Not so, as it was normally aspirated. Neither NA or Turbo can easily be opened up during routine pre-flight.
Now, that picture of N160LL just posted. That deceptively looks like the basic latch system, lift the cowl up (like a gull wing) to inspect, but not so as was just written.
Now, that picture of N160LL just posted. That deceptively looks like the basic latch system, lift the cowl up (like a gull wing) to inspect, but not so as was just written.
hindsight2020
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The NA PA-28R II/III/IV cowl is about as easy as it gets. As @RyanB highlighted, four strap latches with camlocks, and slide out. Zero tools required. I can pop the top half and place it on the ground clear of the aircraft in under 10 seconds, no exaggeration. Putting it back on takes longer only because you have to align the lip with the lower cowl and sometimes the baffling can interfere, so you gotta fuss and wiggle until seating it clean. Call it 30 seconds to put it back on.
ETA: Based on the pictures, the accident airplane has the same latch system as mine. A 10 second affair to pop that upper cowl open.
TrueCourse
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Are pilots actually taking that cowling off during a preflight for the return leg home on a day trip? A basic Cherokee with the “gull-wing” cowl makes it easy, but as simple as your description is of most Arrow cowls, there is more work involved. Oil dripping is a motivator to take it off, but if no oil dripping is it staying on?
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Albany Tom
FWIW, I don't take the cowl off on an Arrow or Archer, but I always check the oil before every start. If I noticed a pool of oil under the aircraft I'd investigate, but not knowing the area where this plane was, I have no idea if it would be obvious.
Turbo-Arrow-Driver
Pre-takeoff checklist
Here's a scan of the preflight checklist from the Turbo Arrow IV POH -- just the nose section. Nothing on there requires removing the upper cowling.
One point of note -- there is no alternator belt on the turbo model -- the alternator is mounted to the gear case on the back of the engine and is gear driven through an (unbelievably expensive) slip coupling (to protect the gear train). And yes, I double checked and this is indeed from the POH for the turbo model.
