Ownership and training costs

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Trav

Filing Flight Plan
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Traveno
Hey y'all
I am currently enrolled in a two year "pro pilot" program at a community college. So far I have done my PPL through a local flying club rather than with the affiliate flight schools the college recommends due to cost and availability. The school has raised the lab fee costs for my remaining ratings and license s by as much as 6500 dollars. The problem with my flying club is that they have neither an IFR or complex airplane. I still need IFR, commercial, CFI to graduate. With my next lab fee being $24500 and not including tuition would the price let's say a $30,000 Mooney make sense with so much training left

I currently pay 60 an HR for my CFII and a tie down was quoted at 50 a month.

Remaining school lab fees are ruffly $45000

Thanks
 
We might need a bit more detail/data to provide a more qualified answer...
  1. What does the lab fee include? If it includes the aircraft, does it also include the fuel (aka a wet rate)?
  2. If you did use your own aircraft, does this lab fee go down?
  3. Did you including in your "$30,000 Mooney" proposition the costs of ownership (maintenance, hangar, insurance, inspections, databases, fuel, reserves, etc)? have you included the chance of a big expensive gotcha like an engine?
  4. Have you used a spreadsheet to do a Cost/Benefit Analysis on [School] vs [Club] vs. [Ownership]?
 
For the club planes, what are they? What do they have for avionics? What is missing for them to be used for the IFR rating?

And you can do a significant amount of your CPL training in a stiff leg aircraft.
 
A $30,000 mooney would teach you ALOT (presuming you're taking a 30k big mooney, not a mite), you'd learn all about the minmums to be legally airworthy, deferred maintaince, probably corrosion and tracking leaks, and depending on how many hours you fly perhaps even a real world engine failure.

Unless you're buying it from a widow who doesn't know what she has, or something along those lines, I wouldn't strap into a 30k dollar mooney.
 
The acquisition cost of a plane is the least you have to worry about. I'd pay the remaining fees and get it done.

If you bought a 30K mooney you now have to maintain that 30K mooney, and you also have to sell that 30K mooney.

I have a spreadsheet I use for estimating costs on a plane and just fiddling around with it I can get the cost to about $135 / hr wet if you fly 3 hours a week.

But as @James331 said, the liklihood of finding a 30K mooney in decent shape with everything you want is VERY low. Expect to pay about 45K (which is what you already have to pay) to get something decent that is equipped to handle IFR. And at that amount..as I said you'd be better off paying your lab fees.
 
If they bumped the useless "lab fees" on me like that for an aviation degree, I'd walk in and change majors to something non-aviation and use the money to put hours in the logbook. I can't even imagine paying them $24500 for nothing. You know how much flight time $24500 will buy?
 
Want a fix for your flight time.

Find a N3 pup with a N number, build hours in that.
Sell it for what you paid for it, next to no expensive mx, can put it anywhere.

Also look into gliders.

Log as much instrument time as you can in the sim.

Or find a buddy and shotgun hours in the cheapest plane you can to get the simulated instrument


The complex isn't a big enough deal to warrant buying a complex plane, actually if you hold off. You could get your SES in a plane with flaps and a CS prop, and have that count as SES and initial CPL since that counts as complex.

Lots of ways to skin that cat.
 
denverpilot said:
You know how much flight time $24,500 will buy?
Click to expand...
Comparing my experience, that would pay for PPL, IFR, and a good part of CPL -- Including aircraft and instructor rental costs. And exam/DPE fees, and supplies, and...
 
AggieMike88 said:
Comparing my experience, that would pay for PPL, IFR, and a good part of CPL -- Including aircraft and instructor rental costs. And exam/DPE fees, and supplies, and...
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm always amazed at what the aviation colleges get folks to pay. Might be helpful in a down hiring market, but not right now.

Degree in left handed basket weaving and a logbook full of hours, they'd be flying someone else's airplane and getting paid to do it, in no time.

Of course, usually the real problem is they're doing the whole thing on debt, so that's where the "accredited" schools get them. Eligible to finance it all on student loans as "need" based.

Essentially the $24000 is the interest rate/cost of borrowing money before they leave school, and then the compounding one kicks in after they're out, which gets put on deferment, and lasts a decade or more.

Nasty nasty personal finance numbers.
 
Nate... sounds like you found the secret stash of kool-aid from that guy named Dave in Franklin, TN. :D :D :D
 
Trav said:
Hey y'all
I am currently enrolled in a two year "pro pilot" program at a community college. So far I have done my PPL through a local flying club rather than with the affiliate flight schools the college recommends due to cost and availability. The school has raised the lab fee costs for my remaining ratings and license s by as much as 6500 dollars. The problem with my flying club is that they have neither an IFR or complex airplane. I still need IFR, commercial, CFI to graduate. With my next lab fee being $24500 and not including tuition would the price let's say a $30,000 Mooney make sense with so much training left

I currently pay 60 an HR for my CFII and a tie down was quoted at 50 a month.

Remaining school lab fees are ruffly $45000

Thanks
Click to expand...

I would just buy a plane(and I have twice now). Your going to save money in the long run with time building. Yes, your going to roll the dice on the saving money part depending on what happens with maintenance on the plane and what not. But you have a car and the same thing can happen with your car. I started with a high time VFR 150, put about 150 hours on it and sold it for a loss of about 4K. But I saved over 15K by owning my airplane rather than renting from a club or flight school. And the 15K is after my annuals and maintenance cost. What little money I made after selling it I bought a Mooney for 30K. Now I got a pretty good deal on mine with its maintenance history and upkeep. Its not your average Mooney you're going to find for 30K. So I say be very careful when you go looking for one if that's what you decide on. Things to watch for on the Mooneys, the seals in the gas tanks. Look for bluing underneath the wings. Also, want to make sure the gear has been rigged within the required time. As far as cost, my insurance was 1200 for a year I had 225TT and IR rated at the time I got it. My run cost is about 75 dollars wet, and that is bare minimum going to the maintenance fund. I am currently looking at about a 3k-5K annual in June. Of course, I'm electing to do a prop overhaul too. Hope this helps you out in your decision making.
 
rather than a mooney, what about a 172 retract? or an arrow? more of then around, better deals.
 
I bought a 172 to get my PPL and think it was a great choice. Depending on what's included in the lab fee I think you'll end up with a lot more equity from buying than you will from paying the fee.

All the regular caveats regarding pre-buys, maintenance, and other ownership costs apply.

Gary
 
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