Overtly lying on medical for class 3

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Jaygatsby007

Filing Flight Plan
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Jun 18, 2023
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Jaygatsby007
Hello

lesson hath been learned. I needed the valuable input from sorcerers of the sky like yourselves. Thanks to all for making me realize that the hard and honest road is the best policy.

Be honest with medical even when you have multiple disqualifying conditions.
 
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Lying on the MedExpress is a felony. Wanna go to jail?
 
Think about the liability that will fall on your family if you get into an accident and insurance doesn't pay because the FAA found that you lied on your medical exam.
Not sure how likely that is. But I don't think you'll find anyone here that will encourage you to lie on the application.

Edit - think about sport pilot for now. It's possible that pilot privileges for sport will increase in the not too distant future.
 
Baked Potato said:
Think about the liability that will fall on your family if you get into an accident and insurance doesn't pay because the FAA found that you lied on your medical exam.
Not sure how likely that is. But I don't think you'll find anyone here that will encourage you to lie on the application.

Edit - think about sport pilot for now. It's possible that pilot privileges for sport will increase in the not too distant future.
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Yeah good point. I’m sure if that came to light, coverage would get revoked. Agreed no one will encourage me to lie on here especially since anybody in the open had to take the hard path if they had issues.

So annoying. Sport sucks though for what I want. I want a bigger plane and the ability to travel serious distance.
Thanks for the rec
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
Yeah good point. I’m sure if that came to light, coverage would get revoked. Agreed no one will encourage me to lie on here especially since anybody in the open had to take the hard path if they had issues.

So annoying. Sport sucks though for what I want. I want a bigger plane and the ability to travel serious distance.
Thanks for the rec
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Many of us know where you're coming from, trust me. And a lot of people don't have qualms about lying to the feds, but thinking of the liability you put on your family may better influence you to do the right thing. Though I'm not a lawyer.

Take a look at the proposed MOSAIC rule changes that should (hopefully) be released later this year. Fingers crossed that weights and passenger numbers may be increased for sport pilots.
 
If this was just a question of legality and you couldn’t fulfill your dream of flying because of some overly harsh FAA medical rule I’d say… you do you… I wouldn’t endorse lying but at least I’d understand it. But that’s mainly because I hate the idea of a government bureaucrat choosing who can fly and who can’t. Though I do understand why that’s necessary when you want to be a commercial pilot.

But 4 medical issues and you want to haul your family around? I can see that going TU pretty quickly. And yes if you get caught lying I think there are some potentially severe legal consequences. Might be better to do light sport or ultralights and treat the family to commercial flights for vacations.
 
Baked Potato said:
Many of us know where you're coming from, trust me. And a lot of people don't have qualms about lying to the feds, but thinking of the liability you put on your family may better influence you to do the right thing. Though I'm not a lawyer.

Take a look at the proposed MOSAIC rule changes that should (hopefully) be released later this year. Fingers crossed that weights and passenger numbers may be increased for sport pilots.
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Agreed I’ll take a look. I rarely face any hurdles and this is one i seem to not be able to get through without either risking it all or compromising ethics.MOSAIC
RyanB said:
Then I suggest you don’t. You will get found out, trust me. Also, a pilot of good moral character is honorable to many, however it doesn’t appear that you possess those traits - at least if you go through with it.
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I’m just annoyed at this hurdle and sadly would be willing to compromise my ethics to get through but it appears the cost is great if I’m found out. I rarely run into any issues from my past but this is a hurdle.
I guess I’ll go about this the right way and get cleared through all the trials etc. it seems to be a very long road but I refuse to let them dictate to me that I’m unfit to fly. I’ll give them the legal middle finger.
 
Baked Potato said:
Many of us know where you're coming from, trust me. And a lot of people don't have qualms about lying to the feds, but thinking of the liability you put on your family may better influence you to do the right thing. Though I'm not a lawyer.

Take a look at the proposed MOSAIC rule changes that should (hopefully) be released later this year. Fingers crossed that weights and passenger numbers may be increased for sport pilots.
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Ok I will thank you!
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
Agreed I’ll take a look. I rarely face any hurdles and this is one i seem to not be able to get through without either risking it all or compromising ethics.MOSAIC


I’m just annoyed at this hurdle and sadly would be willing to compromise my ethics to get through but it appears the cost is great if I’m found out. I rarely run into any issues from my past but this is a hurdle.
I guess I’ll go about this the right way and get cleared through all the trials etc. it seems to be a very long road but I refuse to let them dictate to me that I’m unfit to fly. I’ll give them the legal middle finger.
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The “legal middle finger” is the right way to go about it, and I like that phrasing :)
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
If this was just a question of legality and you couldn’t fulfill your dream of flying because of some overly harsh FAA medical rule I’d say… you do you… I wouldn’t endorse lying but at least I’d understand it. But that’s mainly because I hate the idea of a government bureaucrat choosing who can fly and who can’t. Though I do understand why that’s necessary when you want to be a commercial pilot.

But 4 medical issues and you want to haul your family around? I can see that going TU pretty quickly. And yes if you get caught lying I think there are some potentially severe legal consequences. Might be better to do light sport or ultralights and treat the family to commercial flights for vacations.
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Thanks! I’ll have to find a way. No current medical issue but understood I’m “high risk” based on past
 
I don’t care at all about lying on this application
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I guess there's not much room for misunderstanding your opinion here.

A lot of the flying ecosystem involves the honor system. That is, you telling the truth in regards to a question. Whether that is your alcohol abuse past, or whether you are indeed at your assigned altitude. The reason for this high level of regard for honesty has literally been written in blood.

Now, a lot of people have had the "The rules don't apply to me" attitude, and flown for many years. Some even getting to the airlines before being found out. One thing you'll find though is that once found out there are NEVER threads about how mean the FAA was, but rather how stupid the people were for trying to cheat the system.

Bottom line, if you are already thinking of lying and trying to beat the system then you have no business being in control of an airplane.

I doubt you'll find any sympathetic responses here.
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
Hello,

Here is the kicker, I have prescriptions for Xanax and adderall that I have been filling for years but I actually don’t take the medication as again I have been sober many years. Don’t ask me why I fill them that’s another story.
)
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This is the part that interests me the most. As a prescriber. I don’t ever rx a stimulant with a benzo. Reeks of abuse potential. Secondly does your doc ever urine drug screen?? We urine drug screen yearly for any controlled substance patient. You getting it filled regularly and having negative urine would stop the rx. This does happen and patient like you will say “well I really don’t take them”. But you pay for and fill them?? Why. You must have stockpiles of the med which they don’t. Everyone always wonders how rx meds get into the hands of dealers and abusers??? This is how boys.
The “another story” is selling or giving them to someone.
find another hobby.
 
Why would you fill prescriptions you don't take? How big is your stockpile now? Why would a Doc even prescribe these for you? There seems to be some holes in your story.

In any case, lying to the Feds can have some severe consequences. Lying to yourself around aviation can kill you.
 
Mason said:
Why would you fill prescriptions you don't take? How big is your stockpile now? Why would a Doc even prescribe these for you? There seems to be some holes in your story.

In any case, lying to the Feds can have some severe consequences. Lying to yourself around aviation can kill you.
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Agreed lesson learned. Not worth the risk. No stockpile I got rid of everything. No need for it. No holes. Just dumb behavior holding onto it in case I ever needed it.
 
I really hope this is a troll, because it reeks of attitudes that will be very dangerous going forward.

If it's not a troll, and you really are as good, ethical and moral as you claim to be, your conscience will eat you alive every time you get in that pilot's seat and start her up. You will always be looking over your shoulder and be pushed into making possibly stupid decisions in order to avoid detection. It's your life and your decision, but I would not take lying on a federal form lightly. I also hope that you confide to your wife that you are planning on committing a crime that could ultimately lead to financial straits, a criminal conviction, and you being jailed for some time if anything happens. This isn't just about you if you have a family.

Personally, I would recommend taking all those pills back to the doctor or pharmacy (I hope you weren't flushing them or selling them), and getting a signed and dated statement of how many you brought back. I would get letters proving sobriety/you "crushing it in life". And then I would suck it up and get a good AME and get it done. The right way.

Or I would go fly sport pilot and understand that my own stupid choices are what kept me from being able to follow through on my dream of flying the country with the family in the back. Actions have consequences, some more far-reaching than others. Lying doesn't make them go away. It may postpone the reckoning, but it doesn't erase them.

ETA: I just saw that you were not holding on to them. That will be a problem. There will be no way to prove that you were not actually taking them.
 
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benyflyguy said:
This is the part that interests me the most. As a prescriber. I don’t ever rx a stimulant with a benzo. Reeks of abuse potential. Secondly does your doc ever urine drug screen?? We urine drug screen yearly for any controlled substance patient. You getting it filled regularly and having negative urine would stop the rx. This does happen and patient like you will say “well I really don’t take them”. But you pay for and fill them?? Why. You must have stockpiles of the med which they don’t. Everyone always wonders how rx meds get into the hands of dealers and abusers??? This is how boys.
The “another story” is selling or giving them to someone.
find another hobby.
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That would make sense to blood test/urine test. I know they do that for opiates, which they really should. No I’m not a drug dealer lol I make a ton of money I don’t need to sell drugs. I didn’t want ti let the script go in case I decided i wanted them again. Everything been disposed of properly.
I won’t get another hobby. Based on responses I’m gonna get my ducks in a line and go about this the legal way. Then I’ll get a plan
SkyChaser said:
I really hope this is a troll, because it reeks of attitudes that will be very dangerous going forward.

If it's not a troll, and you really are as good, ethical and moral as you claim to be, your conscience will eat you alive every time you get in that pilot's seat and start her up. You will always be looking over your shoulder and be pushed into making possibly stupid decisions in order to avoid detection. It's your life and your decision, but I would not take lying on a federal form lightly. I also hope that you confide to your wife that you are planning on committing a crime that could ultimately led to financial straits, a criminal conviction, and you being jailed for some time if anything happens. This isn't just about you if you have a family.

Personally, I would recommend taking all those pills back to the doctor or pharmacy (I hope you weren't flushing them or selling them), and getting a signed and dated statement of how many you brought back. I would get letters proving sobriety/you "crushing it in life". And then I would suck it up and get a good AME and get it done. The right way.

ETA: I just saw that you were not holding on to them. That will be a problem. There will be no way to prove that you were not actually taking them.
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yeah I just needed some people to lay it out to me that I’m being dumb and remember everyone, if we were judged by our thoughts we would all be damned. We are judged by our actions and I haven’t done anything. So anybody holier than thou remember that.
I’m patient no rush on this, not a necessity it’s a luxury. just going to not fill anything else and wait a year and apply then with the facts. Maybe I’ll start getting some drug tests now to show im clean or something so I come in prepared.
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
I’m patient no rush on this, not a necessity it’s a luxury. just going to not fill anything else and wait a year and apply then with the facts. Maybe I’ll start getting some drug tests now to show im clean or something so I come in prepared.
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If you’re serious, schedule a consultation with an aviation medical examiner. Do NOT apply for a medical at this time. Let the AME help you plan how to get your ducks in a row. Without professional advice you’re likely to do the wrong things, wasting time and money.
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
... I don’t care at all about lying on this application, I do care however about getting caught. If I was ever compromised in safely for me or others I wouldn’t lie. I don’t think I’m compromising my integrity on the med question bc I don’t currently take any. ...
... understand honestly is the best policy, but in my situation seems like the policy that screws me over. This isn’t about morals it’s about flying when I have no actual reason that should prohibit me besides some form nonsense that doesn’t apply.
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FAA Hazardous Attitude #1: "Antiauthority"
https://pilotinstitute.com/aviation-hazardous-attitudes/
You don't get to decide when the rules apply to you, or ignore them when they are inconvenient or seem unfair.
@Half Fast has good advice for you.
 
Half Fast said:
If you’re serious, schedule a consultation with an aviation medical examiner. Do NOT apply for a medical at this time. Let the AME help you plan how to get your ducks in a row. Without professional advice you’re likely to do the wrong things, wasting time and money.
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Thank you very much I’m going to do this. I assume it’s all off the record which is perfect. This is great plan and gets me moving. Slowly but surely
 
BTW, wouldn’t lying overtly sorta defeat the purpose? Shouldn’t lying be done covertly?
 
So what did you do with all those refills that you have been getting for years?
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
Agreed I’ll take a look. I rarely face any hurdles and this is one i seem to not be able to get through without either risking it all or compromising ethics.MOSAIC


I’m just annoyed at this hurdle and sadly would be willing to compromise my ethics to get through but it appears the cost is great if I’m found out. I rarely run into any issues from my past but this is a hurdle.
I guess I’ll go about this the right way and get cleared through all the trials etc. it seems to be a very long road but I refuse to let them dictate to me that I’m unfit to fly. I’ll give them the legal middle finger.
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If you are willing to compromise your ethics, sadly or not, then you don't have any. Guidelines, perhaps, but not ethics. Reword.
 
This is going to be a loooong uphill battle for the OP, no matter what the battle strategy is.

Unless, of course, it's just to retreat to shelter.
 
TommyG said:
So what did you do with all those refills that you have been getting for years?
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The assumption by any authority will be that if he didn't use them, he sold them. If some compulsive behavior was so strong he filled them and flushed them, over and over, that'll be another issue.
Sport. Pilot.
 
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No. You do not have permission to lie, on your medical or on anything surrounding flying. It's expensive and burdensome, but there are some people who should not be flying. Prove that you're not one of them by doing everything necessary and you can fly. Search here for HIMS and read what's involved.

If that's too much, fly sport, no medical, you need your driver's license and a sport certificate. It's the equivalent of driving a Yugo, but it's still flying.
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
I am really interested in getting my class 3 so I can fly myself/family around when needed to avoid dealing with commercial.
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Coupled with the hazardous attitudes, it's even worse to put the family at risk.
 
TommyG said:
So what did you do with all those refills that you have been getting for years?
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Having the untaken medication is a good way to document that it was, well, untaken. If you have prescriptions on record, but you don't have the meds, either (1) you took them (2) you trashed them or (3) you passed them along to someone else. How is the AME to know? I think if you continue to fill prescriptions for a med you are not taking you should carefully keep the untaken meds to prove your point. But really, if you aren't taking them, stop the scripts. That's the best way to show you aren't taking meds.
 
Mason said:
Why would you fill prescriptions you don't take?
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To sell.

The answer to the OP's original question is that the chances of getting caught are currently very low. But maybe someday the FAA starts combing through your records, and then you do get caught. The consequences will be severe. Many, many pilots lie on Medxpress, often about things that wouldn't make a difference. But here we have someone intentionally lying about multiple disqualifying conditions and possibly dealing drugs. It wouldn't just be the medical revoked.
 
Lawson_Stone said:
But really, if you aren't taking them, stop the scripts. That's the best way to show you aren't taking meds.
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Yes, but that doesn’t undo the diagnosis. The doc made a diagnosis as a basis for the prescription. The FAA will assume a diagnosis is correct until proven otherwise. That proof is often time-consuming and co$tly.
 
Another point, outside the liability and the legality of lying.

If you REALLY want to fly and to keep flying, if you lie and get caught, you will loose your medical and your certificate and not be able to fly again.
 
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