Overnight Fee Attached To Prop

Direct C51

Direct C51

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Direct C51
We went to visit some friends at KHII the other day and upon returning to the plane, I noticed they rubber banded an overnight fee envelope to my prop. I’ve never had this happen before and it did not sit well with me. The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable. Of course a pilot should always notice this on the preflight, but putting anything on a critical component of an airplane never seems like a good idea.

What do you guys think? I would be ok if they attached it to a door handle, or my canopy cover. There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane. I plan to send in my payment with a request to never attach anything to a critical component of my airplane again.
 
I landed at a private strip a few years ago and the owner wanted his landing fee as I was exiting the plane with my family...a whole 5 bucks ! :)
 
Well, TBH, the rubberband and paper is going to fly off at the first turn of the prop. I can't see it causing any issue at all and even the worst pre-flight should catch something as obvious as an envelope and rubber band on the propeller. You are checking your prop for nicks, right?

There is no where on the door of my Cessna to put anything without opening the door and that crosses the line. It is more likely to get left there if attached to the strut as that is not a pre-fight item other than (strut - yes it exists). Many planes don't use a cover, so that does not work. Can't tape it to the windscreen.
 
Are you worried that if you didn't notice then the envelope would be flung off and you wouldn't know to pay or are you worried that they have super strong rubber bands which would stay attached in flight and degrade performance or damage something?
 
Direct C51 said:
What do you guys think? I would be ok if they attached it to a door handle, or my canopy cover. There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane. I plan to send in my payment with a request to never attach anything to a critical component of my airplane again.
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You should send in your payment with an invoice for touching your plane without permission.

Edit: Ed beat me to it.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
You should send in your payment with an invoice for touching your plane without permission.

Edit: Ed beat me to it.
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Do you also do this to every city parking enforcement department or police force? They put a ticket under your wiper.
 
Direct C51 said:
We went to visit some friends at KHII the other day and upon returning to the plane, I noticed they rubber banded an overnight fee envelope to my prop. I’ve never had this happen before and it did not sit well with me. The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable. Of course a pilot should always notice this on the preflight, but putting anything on a critical component of an airplane never seems like a good idea.

What do you guys think? I would be ok if they attached it to a door handle, or my canopy cover. There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane. I plan to send in my payment with a request to never attach anything to a critical component of my airplane again.
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This was normal when I started flying about 20 years ago.

The prop is absolutely a critical component. Tons of force pull on those blades. The addition of the rubber-band and pay envelope are not a threat to them. I would think the risk for damage was higher with the door-handle attachment. Some planes have some really janky door handles. :D
 
I don’t think it would do much damage, but would probably make a weird noise and give a bit of a scare. I’m not so sure it would come off so easily. The envelope was folded over the leading edge of the prop and attached with a large rubber band that was doubled over and pretty taut. I’ve had a few things catch on a rotor blade and they don’t come off. Drag and friction against the blade tend to overcome any centrifugal force, at least in my experience.

I noticed the envelope. But it wasn’t obvious. People make mistakes. There’s been more than one pilot who took off without thoroughly inspecting their prop. Why even create a situation like this. I see no reason to place it anywhere except at the entrance to the cockpit. In fact, there is no reason to put it on my airplane at all. Record my tail number and send me a bill if I don’t pay on my own within a week or two. But I always grab an envelope and I always pay.
 
Direct C51 said:
I don’t think it would do much damage, but would probably make a weird noise and give a bit of a scare. I’m not so sure it would come off so easily. The envelope was folded over the leading edge of the prop and attached with a large rubber band that was doubled over and pretty taut. I’ve had a few things catch on a rotor blade and they don’t come off. Drag and friction against the blade tend to overcome any centrifugal force, at least in my experience.

I noticed the envelope. But it wasn’t obvious. People make mistakes. There’s been more than one pilot who took off without thoroughly inspecting their prop. Why even create a situation like this. I see no reason to place it anywhere except at the entrance to the cockpit. In fact, there is no reason to put it on my airplane at all. Record my tail number and send me a bill if I don’t pay on my own within a week or two. But I always grab an envelope and I always pay.
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That’s awesome, but I bet not everyone does, at least immediately.
 
Well, now one would HOPE one would be inspecting all the "critical components" of an airplane before flying so there is that...
 
Hmmm, well with that logic, I guess in addition to securing the fee envelope to your prop, they should:

Stuff a pen in your fuel vent, so that you can fill out the info on the envelope

Cover your static port with a stamp, so you can mail the envelope.

Stuff a plastic bag in your air intake in case you have any trash.

Put complimentary water bottles in your cowl inlets, it is hot at KHII after all, and you need to stay hydrated.

You should check all these before flying, so they are the best place for all this stuff, right?
 
schmookeeg said:
This was normal when I started flying about 20 years ago.

The prop is absolutely a critical component. Tons of force pull on those blades. The addition of the rubber-band and pay envelope are not a threat to them. I would think the risk for damage was higher with the door-handle attachment. Some planes have some really janky door handles. :D
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Pretty common in my experience, as well.
 
I think aircraft owners are a little irrational when it comes to their aircraft and I include myself in that group. I probably wouldn't have liked it either. BUT, placing the envelope on the prob with a rubber band is probably the least obtrusive method they could use and ensure their envelope is seen. I mean it sure beats taping it to the windscreen or zip tying it to the pitot tube...

Edit: Just saw your last post. Exactly! You wouldn't want them doing any of that stuff... ;-)
 
Steve Costello said:
Man. You folks will argue about literally anything :D
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07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg
 
Why do you guys think folding it around the prop and securing it with a large rubber band is better than taping it to the door or windscreen. I would much prefer a piece of scotch tape on my windscreen or the side fuselage near my entrance (I don’t have doors). But much more preferred would be for them to use the exact same rubber band and attach it to my canopy cover straps. Or how about this, attach it to the tie down chains or chalks. I have to pull those before I fly, it will be noticeable, and I don’t have to worry about it being on a critical component. In fact, I find it hard to think of many places that are worse than the prop to put it.
 
I still don't see what damage a rubber band and envelope can do to a prop. I keep reading "not much damage", I'm positing zero.

One airport would loop a rubber band to my aircraft entry handle, above the step. Maybe low-wings get better courtesy here since we have that handy loop.

For high-wings, I'd probably favor the tiedown ring for the same thing.

No FBO has ever provided me a courtesy pen shoved up my pitot tube, air filter, or urethra. I've stopped at a Signature once or twice and left with the sensation however. :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I still don't see what damage a rubber band and envelope can do to a prop. I keep reading "not much damage", I'm positing zero.
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Well did you just volunteer to fold an envelope around your prop, double up a large rubber band around it, and film a run up, and then go fly it. Let’s see exactly what happens. Let’s see if the envelope flies off right away or stays on. You shouldn’t have a problem doing this on YOUR plane because there will positively be ZERO damage.
 
Direct C51 said:
Well did you just volunteer to fold an envelope around your prop, double up a large rubber band around it, and film a run up, and then go fly it. Let’s see exactly what happens. Let’s see if the envelope flies off right away or stays on. You shouldn’t have a problem doing this on YOUR plane because there will positively be ZERO damage.
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What kind of damage do you really suspect a rubber band and an envelope doing? It’s not like you’d have to get an engine tear down inspection or a new prop because of it. Do I think it’s a stupid place to put an invoice? Yes, but it’s not that big of a deal. Honestly, I think you’re overreacting just a tad.
 
RyanB said:
What kind of damage do you really suspect a rubber band and an envelope doing? It’s not like you’d have to get an engine tear down inspection or a new prop because of it. Do I think it’s a stupid place to put an invoice? Yes, but it’s not that big of a deal. Honestly, I think you’re overreacting just a tad.
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I do wonder what the effect of several ounces of weight attached to one blade would do. Would there be a noticeable vibration? What are the tolerances for prop balancing? Obviously distance from the hub is important.
 
idahoflier said:
LOL! Don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer... ;)
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Fair enough. Looks like half, or so, of you guys don’t mind an envelope on your prop. Perhaps I’m making a bigger deal of that than I should.

However, I am going to argue whether there will be zero problems starting it with the envelope on there. Perhaps there won’t be. But I have seen what happens when stuff got stuck on my rotor blades. It isn’t fun. I think it might stay on the prop and I think there is a possibility that you could takeoff with it on, causing a scary situation. Either way, I prefer to avoid this possibility completely.
 
Direct C51 said:
We went to visit some friends at KHII the other day and upon returning to the plane, I noticed they rubber banded an overnight fee envelope to my prop. I’ve never had this happen before and it did not sit well with me. The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable. Of course a pilot should always notice this on the preflight, but putting anything on a critical component of an airplane never seems like a good idea.

What do you guys think? I would be ok if they attached it to a door handle, or my canopy cover. There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane. I plan to send in my payment with a request to never attach anything to a critical component of my airplane again.
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable to me. Its better than prying your door open and placing it on your dash.
 
My biggest concerns are with the ones that tape it to the static port.
 
Just spit-balling here but is it possible it might make the prop off balance?
 
Direct C51 said:
Well did you just volunteer to fold an envelope around your prop, double up a large rubber band around it, and film a run up, and then go fly it. Let’s see exactly what happens. Let’s see if the envelope flies off right away or stays on. You shouldn’t have a problem doing this on YOUR plane because there will positively be ZERO damage.
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Correct, I would have no problem doing this. I would do this on both of my props simultaneously.

I am also happy to perform a runup for you while you throw an entire bushel of paper envelopes and rubber bands into my propellers.

Do you think painted aluminum suffers paper cuts? Do you think an 80 pound lump even notices the weight of a paper envelope at all? Do you think centripetal force allows either to remain on a 2700 RPM 78" blade without some sort of strong adhesive?

I do not own a high-speed camera, which would be needed to really capture the event. My assumption is that the rubber band slides off of the end of the blade, and the envelope gets chucked on the first revolution after start.
 
Direct C51 said:
Well did you just volunteer to fold an envelope around your prop, double up a large rubber band around it, and film a run up, and then go fly it. Let’s see exactly what happens. Let’s see if the envelope flies off right away or stays on. You shouldn’t have a problem doing this on YOUR plane because there will positively be ZERO damage.
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I just did that exact thing, as a mental exercise. The very first thing I noticed as I walked toward the plane was the envelope rubber-banded to the prop. Then as I did my preflight -- granted, a very cursory preflight, since it was no more than a mental exercise -- I once again noted it as I checked the prop. All I was really looking for was whether it was still attached, didn't have any new nicks or gouges, and was OK to fly. The presence of an attached form was very difficult to miss. Then I mentally removed the freaking envelope and rubber band like even the greenest of green student pilots would do, let alone any halfway reasonably intelligent adult (and most children) who noticed something attached to an airplane propeller with a rubber band.

Good Lord, man. Seriously?
 
It’s not so much the rubber band and envelope themselves that would bother me. It’s the thought that somebody messed with my prop and might have turned it one way, or the other. I’m with OP, it would bother me. However if it was the normal thing everybody did, maybe I would get over it. Maybe.
 
DaleB said:
I just did that exact thing, as a mental exercise. The very first thing I noticed as I walked toward the plane was the envelope rubber-banded to the prop. Then as I did my preflight -- granted, a very cursory preflight, since it was no more than a mental exercise -- I once again noted it as I checked the prop. All I was really looking for was whether it was still attached, didn't have any new nicks or gouges, and was OK to fly. The presence of an attached form was very difficult to miss. Then I mentally removed the freaking envelope and rubber band like even the greenest of green student pilots would do, let alone any halfway reasonably intelligent adult (and most children) who noticed something attached to an airplane propeller with a rubber band.

Good Lord, man. Seriously?
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We’ve lost many great aviators who’s mental exercises were perfect, yet their actions in reality were, human, not perfect.

When it’s 110 degrees outside, possibly higher on the blacktop, you might rush things a little. Well, maybe not you, you’re perfect. You just flew in the day before, maybe you make a bad decision, because you’re human, and just do a quick walk around. Maybe that white envelope against your white prop tips doesn’t stand out and your forget.

I found it and removed it, just like a halfway intelligent adult, as you say, would do. But I’m not so bold, or arrogant, as to think I’m so perfect that I could never miss it.
 
Direct C51 said:
I found it and removed it, just like a halfway intelligent adult, as you say, would do. But I’m not so bold, or arrogant, as to think I’m so perfect that I could never miss it.
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I think that's a valid point. How many pictures are there of an aircraft flying overhead with a towbar attached?
 
Rushie said:
It’s not so much the rubber band and envelope themselves that would bother me. It’s the thought that somebody messed with my prop and might have turned it one way, or the other. I’m with OP, it would bother me. However if it was the normal thing everybody did, maybe I would get over it. Maybe.
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This is my point exactly. I don’t care what your reason is, don’t touch critical things on my airplane. Attach it to the canopy cover, door, tie downs, chalks, tie down ring, whatever. Just not something I don’t want you touching.
 
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