Overnight Fee Attached To Prop

Direct C51 said:
We went to visit some friends at KHII the other day and upon returning to the plane, I noticed they rubber banded an overnight fee envelope to my prop. I’ve never had this happen before and it did not sit well with me. The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable. Of course a pilot should always notice this on the preflight, but putting anything on a critical component of an airplane never seems like a good idea.

What do you guys think? I would be ok if they attached it to a door handle, or my canopy cover. There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane. I plan to send in my payment with a request to never attach anything to a critical component of my airplane again.
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Well, you saw it, didn't you? Mission accomplished.
 
I gotta do everything around here.

Put the overnight fee in cash through a cross cut paper shredder. Take the money out of the shredder, place it in the envelope and rubber band it to the door of the fbo, along with a note saying you are sorry but you thought the envelope would be removed by a lineman during the night before you returned and started the engine....
 
Rushie said:
It’s not so much the rubber band and envelope themselves that would bother me. It’s the thought that somebody messed with my prop and might have turned it one way, or the other. I’m with OP, it would bother me. However if it was the normal thing everybody did, maybe I would get over it. Maybe.
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How do you know your prop doesn't get turned when you're away from your plane? And what exactly would the damage be from that.

I get a feeling that some of the hand wringers over someone touching their prop would be just as offended that someone would attach a note using ADHESIVE to their precious window. "Oh my God!!! It left some type of residue behind! I demand a new windshield!"
 
Rushie said:
It’s not so much the rubber band and envelope themselves that would bother me. It’s the thought that somebody messed with my prop and might have turned it one way, or the other. I’m with OP, it would bother me. However if it was the normal thing everybody did, maybe I would get over it. Maybe.
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Does it bother you to know that somebody might mess with your prop every time you walk away from your plane, turn it one way, or the other, and then leave no clues that they did so?
 
[QUOTE="The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable.[/QUOTE]
Do you also have white tips on the back of the prop? I think you would notice it from the cockpit even if you skipped the preflight. I think you are over-reacting. Do you also complain when they put chocks around your wheels because you might miss them when you get ready to leave?
:)
 
thito01 said:
[QUOTE="The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable.
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Do you also have white tips on the back of the prop? I think you would notice it from the cockpit even if you skipped the preflight. I think you are over-reacting. Do you also complain when they put chocks around your wheels because you might miss them when you get ready to leave?
:)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, or how about when a good Samaritan pulls your plane into a hangar as the hail starts falling? Gotta sue them for touching the plane without permission! Call the lawyers.

I guess the real question is, why didn't you pay the overnight fee before you were ready to leave?
 
What if they were TSA agents using your pitot tube as a step to look inside the cockpit?

Park at any large FBO where they have to tow the airplane to a remote parking area, and it's better than even odds that prop will be touched and/or moved.

Moral of the story: If the airplane has been out of your sight -- anywhere, for any length of time -- a full preflight is warranted, taking nothing for granted. A seagull with a tummy ache could have done more damage in your absence than a rubber band on a prop.
 
Zeldman said:
I gotta do everything around here.

Put the overnight fee in cash through a cross cut paper shredder. Take the money out of the shredder, place it in the envelope and rubber band it to the door of the fbo, along with a note saying you are sorry but you thought the envelope would be removed by a lineman during the night before you returned and started the engine....
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I like where you are going with this, but since you're going to shred it, I'd use a check, not cash.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
I guess the real question is, why didn't you pay the overnight fee before you were ready to leave?
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Direct C51 said:
There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane.
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The envelope is the only mechanism to pay The overnight fee. The fee isn’t from the FBO. Question my pedantry with someone rubber banding an envelope to my prop, but do not question my integrity. I always pay.
 
I do not let anyone touch my airplane....don't even look at it...."Spinal Tap"..:)

To OP, I realize your concern with someone touching your prop...wait until you see a kid swinging from your nav antenna or pitot tube...or walking down the wing of your Bonanza.
 
Direct C51 said:
The envelope is the only mechanism to pay The overnight fee. The fee isn’t from the FBO. Question my pedantry with someone rubber banding an envelope to my prop, but do not question my integrity. I always pay.
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I'm curious if the fee is worthwhile to pay for the envelope, rubber band, and person to patrol and put it on the airplane.
 
It’s not simply touching my prop. It is doing something to intentionally make my airplane unsafe or otherwise unairworthy, especially when it wasn’t overtly obvious. Despite what some think, it is my opinion that an envelope rubber banded around a prop is not safe to start up and takeoff with. Perhaps it will fly off right away and cause no harm. Or perhaps it will stay on, (like I have experienced more than once with rotor blades), spoil the airfoil, and cause a problem. There’s a reason there are bright red remove before flight tags on every cover. Things get missed. It happens. I would prefer it not happen on a prop is all.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I'm curious if the fee is worthwhile to pay for the envelope, rubber band, and person to patrol and put it on the airplane.
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$10 per night. I don’t even see the point of putting an envelope on the prop. There are boxes of envelopes and giant signs on every light stanchion. If you are going to walk past those and decide not to pay, you are probably just going to throw the envelope away anyhow. By the way, the boxes and signs are bright yellow, so you easily see them, yet the envelopes they put on your prop are white.
 
If someone already suggested, forgive the repeat.

Put the money in the envelope, leave it on the prop, and if they ever find it, they earned it.

If they don't just say, "I put it in the envelope you left me."
 
Direct C51 said:
Despite what some think, it is my opinion that an envelope rubber banded around a prop is not safe to start up and takeoff with. Perhaps it will fly off right away and cause no harm. Or perhaps it will stay on, (like I have experienced more than once with rotor blades), spoil the airfoil, and cause a problem. There’s a reason there are bright red remove before flight tags on every cover. Things get missed. It happens. I would prefer it not happen on a prop is all.
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I think the sooner you call the airport management and voice your safety concern to them, the sooner they can assure you they appreciate your concerns and will never do it again. And then promptly hang up and forget the conversation ever took place.
 
Direct C51 said:
$10 per night. I don’t even see the point of putting an envelope on the prop. There are boxes of envelopes and giant signs on every light stanchion. If you are going to walk past those and decide not to pay, you are probably just going to throw the envelope away anyhow. By the way, the boxes and signs are bright yellow, so you easily see them, yet the envelopes they put on your prop are white.
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So yeah, hardly worth the effort. Be surprised if the airport grosses $1,000 a year off of it. Then deduct cost of envelopes and rubber bands, including the ones that stay attached to the prop, plus the $10/hr someone gets paid for sitting around waiting.

The cliche I've heard before, bending over to pick up a penny while hundred dollar bills are flying past your head, seems to apply.

I guess it helps "justify" someone's job.
 
I have only paid a landing fee twice.

The first one was an envelope tied to my propeller. I removed it, put the cash in the envelope and dropped it in the box next to the fuel pumps. Easy and simple.

The second time I paid it in person at the FBO counter upon my departure.

Both times I dealt with it like an adult and didn't see either process as unusual.
 
I hope none of you sensitive men never park outdoors, where passers-by stop and fondle your planes, take pictures sitting on the cowls, and occasionally even stand on the horizontals. No damage. Heaven forbid, those rubber bands must be really destructive!
 
I think you should have registered in the FBO when you arrived,advised them of your plans, paid, and avoided the a bill on the prop.
 
Clip4 said:
If you would have registered in the FBO when you arrived and advised them of your plans you could have just paid then and avoided the a bill on the prop.
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I’ll say again, this isn’t a fee imposed by the FBO. The only mechanism to pay the fee is by the envelope. What compels someone to make up some ridiculous circumstances that don’t exist just to argue online?
 
Direct C51 said:
I’ll say again, this isn’t a fee imposed by the FBO. The only mechanism to pay the fee is by the envelope. What compels someone to make up some ridiculous circumstances that don’t exist just to argue online?
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Ok, I have been at several airports with an envelope system. I paid when I arrived and an envelope never appeared on my prop. If pilots weren’t so notoriously cheap…..
 
Clip4 said:
Ok, I have been at several airports with an envelope system. I paid when I arrived and an envelope never appeared on my prop.
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Good for you. Obviously none were KHII.
 
What compels someone to make up ridiculous circumstances? Perhaps the same thing that compels someone to ridiculously overreact to some imagined “safety” issue that really isn’t. The FBO put that envelope in the one place that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time, would be sure to see.
 
DaleB said:
What compels someone to make up ridiculous circumstances? Perhaps the same thing that compels someone to ridiculously overreact to some imagined “safety” issue that really isn’t. The FBO put that envelope in the one place that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time, would be sure to see.
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Like the towbar that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time is sure to see. Or the control lock that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time is sure to see? Or how about the grounding cable, start cart, inlet covers, etc.

Things get missed. I didn’t notice the envelope right away. I approached my plane, untied it, took my canopy cover off, even opened the cowl, and I never noticed it. It blended in with my white tips. It wasn’t visible from the cockpit. Had I simply made 1 mistake, rushed my preflight and skipped 1 item (in 110 degrees), I would have missed it. I didn’t miss it, thankfully, but it was startling. Don’t be so arrogant and complacent as to think you will never miss anything in aviation.

And again, it wasn’t the FBO. Come on people, reading comprehension makes forums work.
 
Direct C51 said:
Like the towbar that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time is sure to see. Or the control lock that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time is sure to see? Or how about the grounding cable, start cart, inlet covers, etc.
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It ain’t a towbar. Or a control lock. Or a grounding cable. Or a start cart. It’s a friggin’ paper envelope with a rubber band. And put on by someone around airplanes for a living - not someone advertising their rock concert that evening with an ad on your prop. They didn’t turn your prop. And if they did, so what?

There are lumps and there are lumps. Lumps in your oatmeal. Lumps in your throat. Lumps in your ‘nads. This is a lump in your oatmeal. Not life-changing.

Seriously, locally we debate how to do the same thing and have gotten complaints about taping them on any part of the plane. This actually sounds like a viable solution.

And I’m gonna bet that over the decades at OSH, where people rubber band their fuel order for Basler to their prop, more than one pilot has started up their plane with one still on and hasn’t needed an engine teardown.

Go fly. Have fun. And double check your prop when you preflight. Or just watch the envelope sling off when you start up.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
And I’m gonna bet that over the decades at OSH, where people rubber band their fuel order for Basler to their prop, more than one pilot has started up their plane with one still on and hasn’t needed an engine teardown.
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lol, I've read every post in this thread. I honestly don't have an opinion on the OP's "complaint". But OSH fuel orders was the FIRST thing that came to my mind. Then you posted about the fuel orders. I wondered how many of those people never checked their fuel either.
 
They put a bill on the prop, attached with a rubber band. At first, you didn’t see it. I thought you were going to complain about a bill you didn’t know was coming, in which case you could’ve been right. But you’re complaining about the envelope and rubber band on the prop. I don’t understand what you’re upset about. What bad thing might have happened but didn’t?
 
Wow. 2 pages over a rubber band and a piece of paper! This is a nothing burger, he found it right? Didn't start it right? Looks like they put the bill in the right place! Lighten up Francis.
 
So, the real complaint is that the OP is not a typical cheap pilot, so the OP is insulted that the airport treats him as typical cheap pilot.
Otherwise, the problem is three fold:
1. They used a white paper, this one is valid. They should use a bright red/gree so it does not blend into the prop.
2. They used a super strong rubber band.
3. The folded the paper against the leading edge.

All of these are points that are probably better to tell the airport than a rant on the net where none of us can do anything about it; except ridicule the OP's feelings of insult.

Tim (I could not resist)

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Direct C51 said:
We went to visit some friends at KHII the other day and upon returning to the plane, I noticed they rubber banded an overnight fee envelope to my prop. I’ve never had this happen before and it did not sit well with me. The white envelope blended in with the white tips of my prop and it wasn’t immediately noticeable. Of course a pilot should always notice this on the preflight, but putting anything on a critical component of an airplane never seems like a good idea.

What do you guys think? I would be ok if they attached it to a door handle, or my canopy cover. There are also envelopes and drop boxes on the light poles, and I had already grabbed one before even getting to my plane. I plan to send in my payment with a request to never attach anything to a critical component of my airplane again.
Click to expand...

You must have really low faith in your preflight skills.
 
Direct C51 said:
Like the towbar that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time is sure to see. Or the control lock that ANY pilot, anywhere, any time is sure to see? Or how about the grounding cable, start cart, inlet covers, etc.
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Yes, all of those things that we've heard about, and the pilots themselves -- let alone others -- have a laugh over, because it's one of those, "Man, how stupid was I to miss that on preflight? That was really dumb, anyone should know better" things. And when it does happen, do those pilots blame someone ELSE for their own failures to complete their preflight checks? Nope. It's all on them. And if I ever do something bone-headed like that it will be all on me, and I'll own it, and not try to pass it off as some life-threatening sabotage.

And a piece of paper rubber-banded to your prop would not rise to the level of any of them.
 
You probably didn't check to see if there was a parking fee at that airport. Bad on you.
You probably didn't go to the FBO to inquire/pay the parking fee before wandering off. Bad on you.
Airports are in business to make a buck so they can survive. "Touching" your plane, without your permission when it is using up their space is a non-starter. As soon as you land there it is their space, their rules, their options.
But I agree, it is aggravating.
 
Shepherd said:
You probably didn't check to see if there was a parking fee at that airport. Bad on you.
You probably didn't go to the FBO to inquire/pay the parking fee before wandering off. Bad on you.
Airports are in business to make a buck so they can survive. "Touching" your plane, without your permission when it is using up their space is a non-starter. As soon as you land there it is their space, their rules, their options.
But I agree, it is aggravating.
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He knew about it, and it's not collected by the FBO.

I was at a city run airport that had overnight parking fees a couple weeks ago. I knew about it ahead of time, and paid before I left. No one went around attaching stuff to my plane. Just like HII there's a envelope and a box.
 
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