Ovation or Comanche 260b

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mrlavoie

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Mrlavoie87
Hello all, hope everyones New Year is off to a great start!

Mission: Majority will be wife and me with 2 large dogs. Once a month trips from Atlanta to South Florida. I have about 300 hours and just started working towards IFR ticket.

I am thrilled to be finally asking advice on an upcoming purchase, this is a great problem to have and after years and years of reading other peoples post, I can finally join the party of picking some of your brains.

I have narrowed my contenders down to either M20r or comanche 260b. I have time in both (well a 250, not a 260) and can see a stupid grin on my face owning either :D.

My question is:
The comanche Ive found is in great shape with a panel that includes a 750 but single axis AP - mid time engine at about 700 SMOH. Owned by the same person for 20+ years - thought to be in great shape mechanically (the PBI will still of course occur). The caveat is the airframe has over 7800 hours on it and the asking is 125k. I like the idea of the plane but knowing myself and my eventual need to upgrade, will the airframe hours shoot me in the foot when it comes time to sell?

Ive always been a huge fan of Mooney, especially the long bodies and have about 10 hours in one, great all around aircraft but something about being able to fill all the seats without concern appeals to me - although it'll be a rare occasion.
 
mooney. newerer, fasterer, sexierer (notice I didn't say betterer. even though it is, who says that?!?). at first I would have said comanche but it doesn't look like useful load is a concern.
 
Reply #2 is wrong.

Two large dogs? That ain't gonna be in a Mooney. Have fun lifting one up and into the baggage door. Comanche they can each have their own place to lay down.

And that price for that Comanche is insane.(in a bad way)
 
EdFred said:
Reply #2 is wrong.

Two large dogs? That ain't gonna be in a Mooney.
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flat out wrong. I've had two large dogs in my F no problem at all, and he's talking about the long body so thptphtptphpth. that is internet BS you're passing along. sht, I've also had Big Dog @RDUPilot in the backseat no problem.

and maybe I'm even wrong about the UL of the ovation, I might have been thinking of the later J's that got a little low. ovations should be 1000+? can't speak for the comanche but I'd guess it wins in the useful load department.
 
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eman1200 said:
flat out wrong. I've two large dogs in my F no problem at all, and he's talking about the long body so thptphtptphpth. that is internet BS you're passing along. sht, I've also had Big Dog @RDUPilot in the backseat no problem.

and maybe I'm even wrong about the UL of the ovation, I might have been thinking of the later J's that got a little low. ovations should be 1000+? can't speak for the comanche but I'd guess it wins in the useful load department.
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The 250 I fly is pushing 1300 useful. Maybe our definition of big is different? A big dog is 100lbs+ in my book.
 
EdFred said:
my 250 is pushing 1300. Maybe our definition of big is different. A big dog is 100lbs+ in my book.
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Big Dog RDU is 250lb+ but he only looks like about 114 kilograms
 
I was thinking/hoping that it would doable with the removable back seats that the late model Js and newer possess. 2 german shepherds - 200 combined and another 200 in the fur they'll leave behind in my gorgeous plane :(.

The comanche 750# payload just sounds great but how many grown men are going to want to ride in the back for 5+ hours, not I. Realistically, the few times I have 4 seats full, Im sure the trip will be short enough to leave fuel behind.

125k for a comanche gave me some heartburn but todays market is absurd.
 
I feel like you can't go wrong on either account. My personal preference would be the Comanche for the useful load, which is pretty easy to rationalize away in a smaller plane but then eventually becomes a constant thorn in your side later. I have a UL of 1,350 and six seats, and think I really need a C207 for the extra seats and space! Going slow can be it's own thorn, of course, but I feel like the Comanche is acceptably fast.

mrlavoie said:
125k for a comanche gave me some heartburn but todays market is absurd.
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This, however, is absolutely right on both accounts. $125k for a Comanche is an insane number, but also today's market is insane, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
mrlavoie said:
Mission: Majority will be wife and me with 2 large dogs. Once a month trips from Atlanta to South Florida. I have about 300 hours and just started working towards IFR ticket.

I am thrilled to be finally asking advice on an upcoming purchase, this is a great problem to have and after years and years of reading other peoples post, I can finally join the party of picking some of your brains.

I have narrowed my contenders down to either M20r or comanche 260b. I have time in both (well a 250, not a 260) and can see a stupid grin on my face owning either :D.

My question is:
The comanche Ive found is in great shape with a panel that includes a 750 but single axis AP - mid time engine at about 700 SMOH. Owned by the same person for 20+ years - thought to be in great shape mechanically (the PBI will still of course occur). The caveat is the airframe has over 7800 hours on it and the asking is 125k. I like the idea of the plane but knowing myself and my eventual need to upgrade, will the airframe hours shoot me in the foot when it comes time to sell?

Ive always been a huge fan of Mooney, especially the long bodies and have about 10 hours in one, great all around aircraft but something about being able to fill all the seats without concern appeals to me - although it'll be a rare occasion.
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Mooney: go fast on less fuel

Comanche: be able to sit up straight and breathe while flying (that applies to your dogs as well as you)

:)
 
Since you've been in both make the decision based on your comfort (well, you, and your wife in the RF seat) The dogs will adapt to either airplane. Or let you know if they don't like your flying. ;)
 
So here's the thing with the Comanche, I've been at max gross with it multiple times for less than a 5 hour flight. Of course we were headed to a bowling tournament, and when each ball weighs 16lb, and each person is carrying at least 3-4 balls, useful load gets eaten up in a hurry. Granted I tankered fuel so I didn't have to pay $7.00+/gallon or make an extra stop on the return.
 
cabin width:
comanche: 45
mooney: 44

newest comanche: 1972
oldest ovation: 1994

I am certainly NOT trying to talk u out of a comanche...they are sexy planes, especially with tip tanks. but if u got the cash for an ovation and don't think you'll fly much with 4 people, DO IT!

doit.jpg
 
eman1200 said:
cabin width:
comanche: 45
mooney: 44

newest comanche: 1972
oldest ovation: 1994

I am certainly NOT trying to talk u out of a comanche...they are sexy planes, especially with tip tanks. but if u got the cash for an ovation and don't think you'll fly much with 4 people, DO IT!

View attachment 93078
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yeah, but it's important as to WHERE that width is measured. Measuring 44 across at the floor doesn't do me any good when it starts sloping inwards immediately.

You can have an equilateral triangle, a square, and a semicircle that are all the same width, but Mooney owners will try and convince you the triangle has the most area.
 
EdFred said:
yeah, but it's important as to WHERE that width is measured. Measuring 44 across at the floor doesn't do me any good when it starts sloping inwards immediately.

You can have an equilateral triangle, a square, and a semicircle that are all the same width, but Mooney owners will try and convince you the triangle has the most area.
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rrriiiiiiiggghhhhttttt. you keep going with that theory, I'll go with personal experience and human testing.
 
eman1200 said:
rrriiiiiiiggghhhhttttt. you keep going with that theory, I'll go with personal experience and human testing.
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Rough River. We will sit in your Mooney, sit in the Comanche, I'll bring a tape measure and we will measure the distance shoulder to shoulder, and shoulder to window, and I guarantee the difference between the two planes is more than one inch, and no we won't be staggering the seats for comfort. I'm willing to put up some money. What's the wager?
 
If you're looking at a Comanche but don't need quite that much payload, a Commander 114 may be a close substitute. You lose a few knots of cruise speed, but gain a much nicer (and wider) interior as well as a second entry door and pretty fantastic trailing link landing gear. Again, it is a bit slower than a PA24-260 but not by much, and 4 "hefty" adults would easily be happy in it.
 
EdFred said:
Rough River. We will sit in your Mooney, sit in the Comanche, I'll bring a tape measure and we will measure the distance shoulder to shoulder, and shoulder to window, and I guarantee the difference between the two planes is more than one inch, and no we won't be staggering the seats for comfort. I'm willing to put up some money. What's the wager?
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well, since I 1) don't have any money and B) don't have any 100lb dogs and III) don't have an ovation, which is what he's asking about, I'm not sure.

and for the last time, I'm not cuddling up with you in the back seat of ANY plane, sheesh
 
eman1200 said:
well, since I 1) don't have any money and B) don't have any 100lb dogs and III) don't have an ovation, which is what he's asking about, I'm not sure.

and for the last time, I'm not cuddling up with you in the back seat of ANY plane, sheesh
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Especially not in a Mooney.
 
People always talk about the Mooney's cabin width, yet the perception by and large is that they're "small" inside. Maybe it's just that, perception.. but ultimately that's each individual's reality. If it feels "big" to you and you can squeeze two big dogs in the back fine. My dog is 75 lbs (Alaskan Malamute pup) and he barely fits in "big" GA planes. I can't imagine two of him in a Mooney back seat.

So, suffice to say, I'd get a Comanche.. and use the left over Ovation budget to outfit the thing exactly as I want it. For a time there was a beautiful Comanche at MYF, nice paint, awesome panel, new seats (with TV's in the headrests), etc. It was clearly someone's passion.. but I haven't seen it on the ramp in a while :(

Plus, at least Piper still exists and is solvent and produces planes. Mooney sells what, a tiny handful here and there in between bouts of bankruptcy?
 
Tantalum said:
Plus, at least Piper still exists and is solvent and produces planes. Mooney sells what, a tiny handful here and there in between bouts of bankruptcy?
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careful, that argument is NOT germane to the Comanche.
 
The Germans ain't got nuttin to do with this!
 
Tantalum said:
true.. but that can be blamed on an "act of God"..
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you're still missing the point. The inference behind your comparison against mooney is the perception of support. I'm just telling you that argument is specious here.

asicer said:
Who owns the TCDS? I typed "PA24" into the FAA's TCDS search function and got nothing.
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It's Piper. And that's still not the point.
 
Bonanza. Where's my beer?

125 is a STIFF price, even in today's market. I worry less about total time on a Comanche than a Cherokee. I'd look for one with the Aussie Horn, but have heard that's not too terrible to do. Theres one listed with 1 430w, 1 430, 3 axis autopilot, nice looking paint. 1100 sfrm. So a little more time, but listed at 92,500. I've got a sweet spot for the Comanche. Always thought piper went backwards with the Cherokee, but that was mainly due to manufacturing cost.
 
260b = 6 place sorta, probably better climb
bigger nose wheel is better is grass strips
I’ve flown off softer ,shorter strips.

Support by Webco last I heard.



Mooney = great x/c but I would never fly into anyplace having the remotest
Chance of being soft, again.

Best check with your A&P if he/she knows the special “Mooney Words”.
 
DISCLAIMER: I'm not part of the POA Bonanza cult. They're above my current budget and I don't know that I'd buy one if I had the coin because my mission doesn't need the seats.

That said, for the OP's predicament... Debonair?
 
$125k ought to buy you a nice C model. Shark nose, sexy as hell. B's are nice, but the C's were the best of the lot. Very refined airplane.
 
Todd82 said:
DISCLAIMER: I'm not part of the POA Bonanza cult. They're above my current budget and I don't know that I'd buy one if I had the coin because my mission doesn't need the seats.

That said, for the OP's predicament... Debonair?
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At this point I'm just patronizing the cult. Awesome planes, but not for me...even if I had that coin. I like my shoulder room.
 
Flown in both.

1. Parts availability based on age
2. I’ve seen 4 grown men, 2 at least over 6’, while flying with Wes at the factory on a 4+ hour ride before he left for Premier.
3. Mooney is focusing on GW increases as we speak- their sole purpose

I’ll take the ovation anyday over an overpriced Comanche.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Llk said:
Flown in both.

1. Parts availability based on age
2. I’ve seen 4 grown men, 2 at least over 6’, while flying with Wes at the factory on a 4+ hour ride before he left for Premier.
3. Mooney is focusing on GW increases as we speak- their sole purpose

I’ll take the ovation anyday over an overpriced Comanche.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Not advocating flying over gross. Never done it personally. But have yet to see the FAA with scales on the ramp. It's where that extra load is placed so that CG is kosher. Look at the Max Conrad flights. 2000 lbs over gross!
 
Llk said:
Flown in both.

1. Parts availability based on age
2. I’ve seen 4 grown men, 2 at least over 6’, while flying with Wes at the factory on a 4+ hour ride before he left for Premier.
3. Mooney is focusing on GW increases as we speak- their sole purpose

I’ll take the ovation anyday over an overpriced Comanche.
...
Click to expand...

Their sole purpose should be to save the company from extinction. GW increase might help, but does not seem the "magic bullet".

Mooney builds the Lamborghini of single engine airplanes. They need to market them to that type of buyer. Nobody with kids that needs a back seat is going to buy a Mooney over a Cirrus (their spouse won't let them). And nobody with an Lambo gives a damn how much luggage weight it can carry.

Instead, this is what they have on the website:
"NOW AND THEN, THE FACTORY WILL HAVE EITHER A NEW PLANE OR FACTORY REFURBISHED PLANE FOR SALE. THIS IS WHERE WE’LL BE POSTING IT.
FOR INQUIRES, EMAIL US AT SALES@MOONEY.COM"

Seriously? Now and then...they may have a plane to sell you. o_O

And just because it's possible for 4 large grown men to contort themselves into a Mooney for 4+ hours, doesn't mean they are going to want to do that as a regular habit. I've heard you can fit 13 college students into a '68 VW Beetle too.

Compared to their current advert byline (which is crap) I thought "The Personal Airliner" actually spoke to the two attributes that make a Mooney special. And in this COVID time they should be flogging that for all its worth.
 
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Racerx said:
Not advocating flying over gross. Never done it personally. But have yet to see the FAA with scales on the ramp. It's where that extra load is placed so that CG is kosher. Look at the Max Conrad flights. 2000 lbs over gross!
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I know of a Comanche that was flown 200lbs over gross a “few” times... due to a bad A&P W&B... that lasted for about 20 years!
 
I don’t have a horse in the race, but about the TTAF.... you can change everything in a plane other than that, it is with the plane forever. Some people run away seeing a big number , but mostly because it’s a perception. I would rather buy a plane that has been flown more than sit in someone’s hangar for 10 years. Would some people run away when you want to sell looking at the hours, May be.
 
Let's not forget the Comanche was factory zinc-chromated, so airframe corrosion isn't really an issue.
 
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