Oshkosh and Covid

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eman1200 said:
no, I don't realize that's how it's done. if someone gets hit by a bus, the cause of death is 'hit by a bus', not "well they had a cough 5 years ago".

what do you mean "want to believe"? the only thing I believe are facts, like the ones I posted/linked. it's not an opinion at all whatsoever.
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Well it’s clear you don’t know the first thing about how deaths are classified, nor are you interested. The way Covid deaths are classified (as described mostly-accurately by you above) is the exact the same way as any other natural death is classified, only with other natural deaths (including where no autopsy is performed), the stated cause may date from years ago. So again, if you think there’s anything strange about what you cited, you clearly don’t know. And you also clearly haven’t made any attempt to find out. (Those two things usually go hand-in-hand)
 
Sham wow....lol :D

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eman1200 said:
actually it was just a question which clearly you can't answer cause you know where it's goin........
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Um, nope! The only way for one to believe what you said is nefarious is to willfully avoid finding out if it is or not. (Hint: it’s not)
 
EdFred said:
And what everyone conveniently ignores (because, well, reasons) when they trot out numbers (probably because they have a hard time with numbers higher than 5) is that just shy of 75% of those are collecting social security. "Oh no, the horror of an old person dying, the world is ending!" Hell they are getting to the age where they *should* be dying from something. So lets take that 0.04% and take a 1/4 of that. 1 out of 10,000 Americans died prematurely. Big ****ing deal. Assuming they died FROM, and not WITH. But again, reasons.

Meanwhile, there was in the neighborhood of 10,000,000 births over the same time period. Not exactly a death knell.
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This is the kind of thing that truly, truly blows my mind.

“Dear old people, please die. You should be dying.”

Absolutely disgusting.
 
mryan75 said:
Um, nope! The only way for one to believe what you said is nefarious is to willfully avoid finding out if it is or not. (Hint: it’s not)
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sure thing dude.
 
Alcohol causes 360 deaths per day, and shortened the lives of those who died by an average of 26 years, for a total of nearly 3.6 million years of potential life lost, according to the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcohol-deaths.html
I have never heard anyone saying that not drinking saves lives, directly and indirectly. Unlike Covid, alcohol kills inducing violence and/or causing accidents, too.
 
eman1200 said:
besides the blatantly obvious stuff that many people were choosing to ignore, the one that scared me the most was when Massachusetts updated their covid death reporting requirements. I 'think' this was posted over on the purple board, I usually like to give credit but I don't recall 100%, but in mass, anyone who died and had covid within the previous 60 days (could have been 60 or 90, I don't recall) was reported as a covid death. so you could have covid, get over it, then 59 days later get hit by a bus and it was counted as a covid death. don't believe me, go look on mass.gov for the article. that is, if you believe the government. now they DID say their requirements were weaker than many other states, but who cares, if you died from ANYTHING other than covid, it, believe it or not, should not be counted as a covid death. crazy, I know. I'll see if I can dig up the link, since no doubt someone will say "link?"
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small correction (small, or maybe sort of small): In massachusetts, if someone died within 60 days of testing positive and the death cert stated "natural causes", then the death was counted as a covid death. Around mid-March 2022, Massachusetts changed the 60 to 30 and dropped 3770 deaths from the list. (source: mass.gov)
 
mryan75 said:
You do realize that’s exactly how it is done with any other type of natural death, right? And it might not even be the previous 60 or 90 days, but rather 10 years? Surely you know that. I think it’s always safe to assume that people so well versed on the “fakeness” of Covid statistics took the time to inform themselves and just didn’t base their opinions on what they want to believe. Surely. Right?
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I hate to be the guy who says "Oh yeah? What's your source?" but I've filled out my share of death certificates and I don't remember ever including anything irrelevant. If someone had Covid and died of pneumonia, that would be relevant. If someone came in with a bleeding ulcer, happened to test positive for Covid, and went on to bleed to death, the Covid test is irrelevant and shouldn't be listed as a cause of death, a contributing cause, or anything else except a comorbidity, along with hypertension, depression, anxiety, and celiac disease.

Perhaps you've seen it done some other way?
 
Amazed that this circus act is still going on:

 
mryan75 said:
This is the kind of thing that truly, truly blows my mind.

“Dear old people, please die. You should be dying.”

Absolutely disgusting.
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Why?

Serious question. I think stopping a world economy for this thing robbed the young to preserve the old, and I found THAT disgusting.

Leadership means making hard choices. We abdicated this one and will be feeling the aftershocks for a long time.

IMO of course, and worth just as much.
 
mryan75 said:
This is the kind of thing that truly, truly blows my mind.

“Dear old people, please die. You should be dying.”

Absolutely disgusting.
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The truth of the matter is death comes eventually. Old people are always more fragile and prone to illness. I think that old people and those working with old people should totally take plenty of precautions to avoid transferring germs as much as possible, but I think they should do that with the common cold, the flu, pneumonia, and a myriad of other illnesses, too. I don't think that the US should have it's economy destroyed, it's population thrown into record levels of despair and self-harm due to isolation, and hundreds of thousands of people shamed because they want to experience their lives instead of simply breathing for 80 years.
 
EdFred said:
And what everyone conveniently ignores (because, well, reasons) when they trot out numbers (probably because they have a hard time with numbers higher than 5) is that just shy of 75% of those are collecting social security. "Oh no, the horror of an old person dying, the world is ending!" Hell they are getting to the age where they *should* be dying from something.
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At 62? Social Security can be collected at what is now a fairly 'young' age, relative to the average US lifespan. Lots of people on Social Security haven't even welcomed a first grandchild yet or had a chance to really start enjoying retirement. I suspect that lots of people on this board who collect or could collect Social Security plan to keep flying for a good number of years yet. Plenty of life left in 'em!

I'll close with a shout-out to my Mom, who last month at age 101 kicked Covid. She complained of fatigue and intermittent fever for three days, and complained much more about boredom while waiting out the rest of her 10 day quarantine period.

Farm women are tough.
 
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I keep telling you I died from Covid 2 years ago, but nobody seems to hear me. Hmmm
 
OneCharlieTango said:
I hate to be the guy who says "Oh yeah? What's your source?" but I've filled out my share of death certificates and I don't remember ever including anything irrelevant. If someone had Covid and died of pneumonia, that would be relevant. If someone came in with a bleeding ulcer, happened to test positive for Covid, and went on to bleed to death, the Covid test is irrelevant and shouldn't be listed as a cause of death, a contributing cause, or anything else except a comorbidity, along with hypertension, depression, anxiety, and celiac disease.

Perhaps you've seen it done some other way?
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I have seen it that reports of deaths from Covid are confused with deaths WITH Covid. I read of motorcycle deaths coded as a death WITH Covid. The language is very slippery.
 
Didn't make Oshkosh as we had to go on a https://www.rockymountaineer.com train trip with two other couples (ages 58 to 82) we had signed up for two years ago. Vancouver to Calgary with the crowd on trains and tour busses over 7 days and every one of us came back with Covid. Almost inevitable given the transmission rate of the newest variant. However, all of us had a run down couple days, some head congestion and were over it in four days (all inoculated with at least one booster shot).
 
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As one of the oldest geezers on this board, I expect to die eventually but not from COVID. I’m just hopeful it will be like the last time seven years ago when it was sudden and painless. Probably won’t be revived the next time, and depending on my physical and mental state, might not want to be.

In the mean time, I take reasonable precautions ad enjoy life to the fullest.

People who wring their hands about old people dying are always not old people. Old people expect to die and seldom worry excessively about it, if at all.

Cheers
 
GaryM said:
At 62? Social Security can be collected at what is now a fairly 'young' age, relative to the average US lifespan. Lots of people on Social Security haven't even welcomed a first grandchild yet or had a chance to really start enjoying retirement. I suspect that lots of people on this board who collect or could collect Social Security plan to keep flying for a good number of years yet. Plenty of life left in 'em!

I'll close with a shout-out to my Mom, who last month at age 101 kicked Covid. She complained of fatigue and intermittent fever for three days, and complained much more about boredom while waiting out the rest of her 10 day quarantine period.

Farm women are tough.
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I'm not saying let them eat cake, but at a certain point, it's not a "tragedy" or "they left us too soon." Millions of people die every year, so why is this so special? And this isn't from someone caught in the crossfire of "hey, y'all hold my beer." Nature is gonna nature. Sometimes we fight back and win, and sometimes nature just decided a culling needs to happen and we just have to suck it up, an move on.

The amount of damage done to the healthy portion of society from the "every life is worth a billion dollars!" is ridiculous. No, not every life is worth a billion dollars, and not every life must be saved at the expense of others. In the words of Kenny Rogers, sometimes "you got to know when to fold em."
 
I fly experimental planes, I ski, I scuba dive. These hurt my finances, actuarially.

I've had MNRA vaccines put into my body and tested positive for COVID twice. No questions about that on last month's insurance application.

What's a fella' to do? I think I know the answer.
 
Sifossifoco said:
I have never heard anyone saying that not drinking saves lives, directly and indirectly. Unlike Covid, alcohol kills inducing violence and/or causing accidents, too.
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That is a surprising take. I hear it at every annual physical and again when I go for my 3rd class.

Latest guidance is there is no level of alcohol consumption considered safe. From Mayo, “Keep in mind that even moderate alcohol use isn't risk-free. For example, even light drinkers (those who have no more than one drink a day) have a tiny, but real, increased risk of some cancers, such as esophageal cancer.”

Or, Ars has it with “There’s no risk-free amount of alcohol, population-level study finds.”
 
I think it's clear that COVID will be with us for years to come.

Something that has become a truth for me over the years is that simply being alive isn't good enough. It's how that time we have alive is spent. Now the threshold for everyone between risk/reward or in this case safety/continuing on is going to be different. But the lockdowns took life away from EVERYONE. We probably saved a fair number of people but I had several elderly family members die in the past 2 years, none from COVID just typical old age stuff. Think about how many elderly folks spent their last years isolated because of this and didn't get to see their loved ones one last time. There are emerging reports of developmental damage done to children. Think about how many events were canceled, opportunities lost, businesses ruined. Just because preventing deaths is the goal, don't just ignore the costs. They're HUGE.

I'm not saying we just ignore that people have died and will continue to die but it's not even the leading cause anymore. At some point living has to take priority over preserving life. We'll all differ on where we draw that line but it seems the general consensus is most of society wants to move on.
 
masloki said:
That is a surprising take.
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Even more surprising may be that obesity causes an estimated 324,940 deaths in the US every year (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10546692/) and 2.8 million deaths globally (https://www.who.int/news-room/facts-in-pictures/detail/6-facts-on-obesity).
Why so many people got obsessed with Covid like it's the only cause of death on this planet is beyond me, particularly because so many of those people are overweight and regularly drink alcohol!
 
cowman said:
I think it's clear that COVID will be with us for years to come.

Something that has become a truth for me over the years is that simply being alive isn't good enough. It's how that time we have alive is spent. Now the threshold for everyone between risk/reward or in this case safety/continuing on is going to be different. But the lockdowns took life away from EVERYONE. We probably saved a fair number of people but I had several elderly family members die in the past 2 years, none from COVID just typical old age stuff. Think about how many elderly folks spent their last years isolated because of this and didn't get to see their loved ones one last time. There are emerging reports of developmental damage done to children. Think about how many events were canceled, opportunities lost, businesses ruined. Just because preventing deaths is the goal, don't just ignore the costs. They're HUGE.

I'm not saying we just ignore that people have died and will continue to die but it's not even the leading cause anymore. At some point living has to take priority over preserving life. We'll all differ on where we draw that line but it seems the general consensus is most of society wants to move on.
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I think I posted that in March 2019.
 
SkyChaser said:
The truth of the matter is death comes eventually. Old people are always more fragile and prone to illness. I think that old people and those working with old people should totally take plenty of precautions to avoid transferring germs as much as possible, but I think they should do that with the common cold, the flu, pneumonia, and a myriad of other illnesses, too. I don't think that the US should have it's economy destroyed, it's population thrown into record levels of despair and self-harm due to isolation, and hundreds of thousands of people shamed because they want to experience their lives instead of simply breathing for 80 years.
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Really? Hyperbole much? Wasn't the S&P at a 5 year high at the beginning of '22, then Russia got weird. Sure there was a blip in march/april of '20 followed by a climb to a 5 year high. I had a blast during covid, some epic BBQs, great vacations, good beer, and new distillery opened up in my area. There was a spike in unemployment but, there were many people that were impacted that didn't want to work. Laziness is not a symptom of Covid. Many companies couldn't get applicants, let alone fill open positions ranging from hourly assemblers or individual contributor professionals to senior management. I think the worst thing that happened to me during Covid was that the ski resorts closed early for the season in the spring of '20. Sure, restaurants took a hit but, they also didn't want to fill the jobs that were open in other fields. Hell, with the expanded use of video conference I am better connected to my parents that are 3000 miles away now than I was pre-covid. I suppose if you just want to watch Fox or CNN, then the sky is falling and should probably become a hermit prepper. And I never recall being shamed for anything I did during Covid.

I should add that I followed mask guidance when in effect without berating the people that actually were responsible enough to work for a living. I would also not group activities back to back (week or two apart) so that I could make sure I hadn't caught covid (with testing) on a plane or at a BBQ and then pass it to another group of people. Also, I didn't take medical advice from Jenny McCarthy and got vaccinated/boosted when eligible.
 
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Speaking of nothingburgers, over 83% of those who play Russian Roulette walk away completely unscathed.

Well…unless they use a semi-automatic. But that’s Darwinian…
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Speaking of nothingburgers, over 83% of those who play Russian Roulette walk away completely unscathed.

Well…unless they use a semi-automatic. But that’s Darwinian…
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The survival odds are even better with Covid...98.9% survive. Even better if you're under 65. ;)
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
The survival odds are even better with Covid...98.9% survive. Even better if you're under 65. ;)
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I’m neither a must-wear-a-mask-all-the-time zealot nor a this-was-never-a-problem denier. It has more significance than just death - and vaccines have dramatically reduced deaths, the science has shown, even if people still get clinical infections despite being vaxed and boosted.

I’m vaxed and boosted AND I’ve had it probably 4 times, including one before vaccines were available. All mild, though the one a month ago (BA5?) was the most annoying. As I’ve said before, my smell is still totally messed up - probably permanently. The good news is my $#!t don’t stink now but it is “odd” not to be able to smell much and to have some smells “bent”. I’m a healthy, physically active and fit person.

An article noted how an early sign of dementia is the loss of smell - and there was “wondering” if loss of smell from Covid could cause dementia, since the olfactory (smell) nerves are the closest point to the brain in the body. Must admit, that gave me pause. I think the causes are different but it is something to think about…

But death rate is not the only measure of impact.
 
EdFred said:
I'm not saying let them eat cake, but at a certain point, it's not a "tragedy" or "they left us too soon." Millions of people die every year, so why is this so special? And this isn't from someone caught in the crossfire of "hey, y'all hold my beer." Nature is gonna nature. Sometimes we fight back and win, and sometimes nature just decided a culling needs to happen and we just have to suck it up, an move on.

The amount of damage done to the healthy portion of society from the "every life is worth a billion dollars!" is ridiculous. No, not every life is worth a billion dollars, and not every life must be saved at the expense of others. In the words of Kenny Rogers, sometimes "you got to know when to fold em."
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The only time a life is worth a billion dollars is when it’s your wife, husband, daughter, etc….

beyond that we don’t really care much. :rolleyes:
 
I know two business associates who died of COVID last summer. One was an accountant who was a bit tubby (but who isn't?), and had some heart issues that he was getting treated for. The other was an HR manager who was a longtime smoker. Both were in their early sixties. Neither was vaccinated. Both would spew political nonsense when asked about it. China Faucci Biden blah blah blah.

They are now six feet under the ground, because they listened to some cable TV and talk radio idiots who manipulated them for ratings.

The biggest idiot is the accountant's wife. She continues to argue that he did not die of COVID. Refuses to admit that getting vaccinated would have saved him.

Back when there were no alternatives, I felt sorry for people who got sick, and I did my best to do my part in reducing the spread. Masks, staying at home, all of that. My whole extended family got it early, before vaccines, and it hammered us good. It was no joke.

Now, I have natural immunity plus 4 vaccinations, and I'm all out of sympathy. I won't wear a mask and I'll go where I want, when I want. Vaccines are widely available. If you are too stupid to protect yourself, you deserve what you get.
 
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