Oshkosh 2023 Planning help

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MacFlier

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MacFlier
Hello all!
I'm planning to go to Oshkosh for the first time this year.
I'm instrument rated, with 350 TT and will be camping, arriving on Friday 28 and leaving on Monday 31st.
I'm flying from North Texas. Any good tips on routes? Vfr vs ifr?
Will there be space still on that day typically?
Super excited!
 
MacFlier said:
Hello all!
I'm planning to go to Oshkosh for the first time this year.
I'm instrument rated, with 350 TT and will be camping, arriving on Friday 28 and leaving on Monday 31st.
I'm flying from North Texas. Any good tips on routes? Vfr vs ifr?
Will there be space still on that day typically?
Super excited!
Click to expand...

You should have no problem getting a good parking/camping spot that late in the week. The IFR arrival is by time slot only, and there aren't that many slots, so if that's your choice, you've gotta choose well ahead of time.
 
MacFlier said:
Hello all!
I'm planning to go to Oshkosh for the first time this year.
I'm instrument rated, with 350 TT and will be camping, arriving on Friday 28 and leaving on Monday 31st.
I'm flying from North Texas. Any good tips on routes? Vfr vs ifr?
Will there be space still on that day typically?
Super excited!
Click to expand...
Read the NOTAM
Believe the NOTAM
Fly the NOTAM
Chicago ATC will NOT cooperate with any request you make, hence stay far away from Chicago Class B.
Have Plan B ready to go if the weather is crummy - the field will close even if you're IFR
 
To piggyback on Kyle's post, if you want to fly in IFR you have to reserve an arrival slot -- there's 4 per hour. The NOTAM will spell it all out but here's the website anyway STMP (faa.gov) That late in the show I doubt you'll have any difficulty reserving a slot, just be mindful of the airshow times when the field is closed to arrivals and departures. You can reserve a slot 72 hrs in advance (recommended) and the times are UTC. I have flown in IFR the past 5 years as it's simple and avoids all of the VFR arrival shenanigans.
 
murphey said:
Have Plan B ready to go if the weather is crummy - the field will close even if you're IFR
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That's not true whatsoever, assuming the field is above IFR mins, although you'll still need an IFR arrival slot. And having a Plan B whether VFR or IFR is always sound advice. For OSH, having a Plan C, particularly if there's a major weather event in the OSH area the day prior to your intended arrival, wouldn't hurt either.
 
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The field closes after lunch so plan to arrive before then, it takes more time then you would think due to the inbound routes. En route pull up the ATIS, which will tell you the starting point, input that on your foreflight or GPS and head that way, follow the other aircraft’s. Just look for other people, fly the airplane, don’t worry too much about other stuff. Tower will come on the radio and tell you which route to follow. For me they were alternating aircraft different routes so have the printed routes ready and look. When in doubt, just ask. Tower is super friendly and wants everyone to have a good time. Another pilot might come on and heckle you, just ignore him and proceed. First time is a bit much, but it’s easier than what people make it out to be. Assuming weather is decent, I wouldn’t try this IFR.
 
tsts4 said:
Why? IMO, as I have already stated, the IFR arrival is way easier than the VFR arrival.
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Maybe do that then. I say that because of my limited experience. Rather not add another element to it.
 
mandm said:
Maybe do that then. I say that because of my limited experience. Rather not add another element to it.
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Fair enough. However, the only wrinkle from a routine IFR flight is the slot reservation. Otherwise, it's a straightforward arrival and approach that you would do anywhere--that's the beauty of it for me. YMMV...
 
tsts4 said:
To piggyback on Kyle's post, if you want to fly in IFR you have to reserve an arrival slot -- there's 4 per hour. The NOTAM will spell it all out but here's the website anyway STMP (faa.gov) That late in the show I doubt you'll have any difficulty reserving a slot, just be mindful of the airshow times when the field is closed to arrivals and departures. You can reserve a slot 72 hrs in advance (recommended) and the times are UTC. I have flown in IFR the past 5 years as it's simple and avoids all of the VFR arrival shenanigans.
Click to expand...

A couple years ago, we managed to get a slot ~3 hours from when we called, but it was the Thursday before the show after the NOTAM went into effect. We had flown IFR from Maryland to Sportys (I69), then IFR to Dupage (smoke was pretty bad plus rain showers), landed in KDPA/Dupage, thinking we could go VFR the rest of the way, but the weather had closed in between us and KOSH. We called to get the slot as the web page wouldn't work. We broke out of the clouds about halfway across the lake for a landing on 27.

But, yeah, we were lucky.
 
I'm going to read the 2022 notam this weekend. I don't think the 2023 notam is out yet.
My initial plan is to go vfr but have IFR as a backup in case the weather goes crap but still doable.
I'm assuming departing on Monday morning should be no issue.
And yes, plan B would be to go to FLD or ATW. We'll have a fuel stop somewhere in MO or IL.
Now I need to see the arrival times, as the field closes at 2pm or so for airshows.... I'm thinking either leaving early (5:45 total flight time) or possibly overnighting somewhere.
 
Probably too far east of your route, but Kennett, MO (TKX) used to be the least expensive fuel on my way from GA to IA. As the show approaches, there is usually a website or two pop up that show which airports are offering fuel discounts for OSH-goers. We stopped in Dekalb, IL last year for their free hotdogs and fuel top-off. I've done VFR and IFR - I personally prefer VFR, even considering all the 'headaches' and 'challenges' of sequencing, etc. etc. - for me, that's part of the fun and uniqueness of OSH.

Biggest thing I would suggest is going out in whatever a/c you're going to be flying and get comfortable operating (this includes maneuvering - not just S &L) at 90kts and less. Got stuck behind a Taylorcraft last year and ended up with about half flaps in to keep the nose low enough to see the horizon to stay behind(ish) him. Also, practice landing on a spot roughly the size of runway numbers or smaller - practice low/slow/short turns to final (get a CFI to tag along if not comfortable with it) and still being able to land on that spot. Not trying to scare you, but if you are confident in being able to do that stuff, then you won't sweat the arrival and have "oh no.. I hope they don't turn me in short and put me on the orange dot!" thoughts or dread.

The arrival really isn't that complicated - just read and know the NOTAM and try to grasp the whole system of why they're doing it the way they are and be confident (due to practicing) low/slow speed maneuvers to landing.
 
Watch the EAA videos of what an arrival looks like: https://www.eaa.org/airventure/eaa-fly-in-flying-to-oshkosh/eaa-airventure-oshkosh-notam.

Better yet, go on youtube and search for Oshkosh arrival videos. You'll see the real thing, with pilots/passengers swiveling their heads like something out of the Exorcist movie trying to find that one guy who's ignoring the procedures. Language is not safe for small children.

Finally, when the Notam arrives, read it over and over. If you have a simulator, fly the procedure. Please don't be that guy that everyone (including the controllers) is very, very unhappy with.
 
MacFlier said:
I'm going to read the 2022 notam this weekend. I don't think the 2023 notam is out yet.
My initial plan is to go vfr but have IFR as a backup in case the weather goes crap but still doable.
I'm assuming departing on Monday morning should be no issue.
And yes, plan B would be to go to FLD or ATW. We'll have a fuel stop somewhere in MO or IL.
Now I need to see the arrival times, as the field closes at 2pm or so for airshows.... I'm thinking either leaving early (5:45 total flight time) or possibly overnighting somewhere.
Click to expand...

Be advised that if IFR is part of your backup plan, that all of the nearby airports, not just OSH, require an IFR arrival slot reservations per the NOTAM.
 
CJones said:
Probably too far east of your route, but Kennett, MO (TKX) used to be the least expensive fuel on my way from GA to IA. As the show approaches, there is usually a website or two pop up that show which airports are offering fuel discounts for OSH-goers. We stopped in Dekalb, IL last year for their free hotdogs and fuel top-off. I've done VFR and IFR - I personally prefer VFR, even considering all the 'headaches' and 'challenges' of sequencing, etc. etc. - for me, that's part of the fun and uniqueness of OSH.

Biggest thing I would suggest is going out in whatever a/c you're going to be flying and get comfortable operating (this includes maneuvering - not just S &L) at 90kts and less. Got stuck behind a Taylorcraft last year and ended up with about half flaps in to keep the nose low enough to see the horizon to stay behind(ish) him. Also, practice landing on a spot roughly the size of runway numbers or smaller - practice low/slow/short turns to final (get a CFI to tag along if not comfortable with it) and still being able to land on that spot. Not trying to scare you, but if you are confident in being able to do that stuff, then you won't sweat the arrival and have "oh no.. I hope they don't turn me in short and put me on the orange dot!" thoughts or dread.

The arrival really isn't that complicated - just read and know the NOTAM and try to grasp the whole system of why they're doing it the way they are and be confident (due to practicing) low/slow speed maneuvers to landing.
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Thanks! Part of my plan is to practice spot landings, flying and maneuvering at 90 knots. I'm also going to fly the VFR route in MSFS 2020 multiple times to get familiar with the terrain features.
 
tsts4 said:
Be advised that if IFR is part of your backup plan, that all of the nearby airports, not just OSH, require an IFR arrival slot reservations per the NOTAM.
Click to expand...
Good to know. Thanks!
 
I went for my first time last year (2022).
I am instrument rated but could not get a IFR time slot, however I landed at Oshkosh IFR, here’s how that happened:

I had overnighted at an airport in Illinois, south of OSH (RFD). Me and a bunch of other folks apparently had the same idea: takeoff in morning and get into OSH. But there was a line of clouds at the IL/WI state line, so we couldn’t get North while VFR. The ATIS for Oshkosh arrive said the field was IFR and all VFR traffic had to hold at some other staging point.
Then, I heard a Bonanza on the radio get a pop-up IFR clearance to some other airport north of us. They cannot give you a pop-up clearance to OSH, due to the reservation system, so you ask for a pop-up IFR to some other airport. I said “hey… can I get one of them Pop-up IFR clearances also???” Then there’s a *wink wink* from the controller: “I’ll give you this but promise me you will cancel IFR once you are back in visual conditions”. “Yes I promise” “okay cleared to <some random airport north>”

As it turned out, I was legit in the clouds all the way to OSH. They told me “be ready to copy an amended clearance” I thought it would get busted for not canceling like we promised… but they said “cleared direct OSH via the RNAV 27”. Oh yeah! And so I missed all the craziness of the VFR arrival train.
 
You bring an interesting point. First, that an IFR reservation may not be easy to get. Second, the 22 NOTAM talks about you should plan to arrive early, like between 7am and 8am CDT. I was thinking about taking off early like 6am CDT and fly all the way there to arrive before they shutdown for the airshows around 1:30pm, but I'd be arriving around 11-12pm. Is that recommended or should I overnight somewhere and arrive early in the morning?
 
I also had the choice to fly all morning and arrive in afternoon, vs overnight (find an airport about 1 or 1.5 hours away) and get-in the morning. I arrived around 9am in the morning, and it seemed like a good way to do it.

In my case it was dictated by weather, there was a storm system in WI / OSH area so I flew as close as I could and overnighted while the storms cleared. (I also missed the fun of all the rain and broken tents).

I’m glad I chose the overnight+morning arrival option, because it was already stressful enough , and I was able to do it with a clear head and no fatigue or time pressures.

likewise on departure, I did (and would do again): depart and fly only a short (VFR) leg to a nearby airport where I can “clear my head and just get away from the craziness”. I found the departure to be just as stresfull (a long taxi around, the “hurry up and wait” while in the long lines, the stress of multiple simultaneous takeoffs and avoidance, etc). I needed to go south but departure procedures had me flying north. So I had to make a long loop around back south, all with the restrictions of being VFR and dodging a Broken layer.
my knees were shaking I landed back in RFD to “clear my head” and also plan our the rest of my trip home IFR from there.
 
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ChopAndDrop said:
I’m glad I chose the overnight+morning arrival option, because it was already stressful enough , and I was able to do it with a clear head and no fatigue or time pressures.

likewise on departure, I did (and would do again): depart and fly only a short (VFR) leg to a nearby airport where I can “clear my head and just get away from the craziness”. I found the departure to be just as stresfull (a long taxi around, the “hurry up and wait” while in the long lines, the stress of multiple simultaneous takeoffs and avoidance, etc). I needed to go south but departure procedures had me flying north. So I had to make a long loop around back south, all with the restrictions of being VFR and dodging a Broken layer.
my knees were shaking I landed back in RFD to “clear my head” and also plan our the rest of my trip home IFR from there.
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Good points. I was thinking about a stop right after clearing the craziness as well. Stretch your legs, refuel if needed then fly back home.
 
MacFlier said:
You bring an interesting point. First, that an IFR reservation may not be easy to get. Second, the 22 NOTAM talks about you should plan to arrive early, like between 7am and 8am CDT. I was thinking about taking off early like 6am CDT and fly all the way there to arrive before they shutdown for the airshows around 1:30pm, but I'd be arriving around 11-12pm. Is that recommended or should I overnight somewhere and arrive early in the morning?
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Tons of folks (especially those making long trips) land relatively nearby, fuel up and spend the night and then make the short hop into Osh the next day. However, the only early arrivals the NOTAM actually recommends is for NORDO and slow aircraft. That said early morning usually can be a good time to arrive with the exception of the day following a major weather event. In that instance it’s going to be a zoo. I have found late afternoon and early evenings to be good times to arrive as it seems more and more everyone wants to get in early.

As far as the IFR reservation system goes, it’s not hard but you need to know the rules. The slots open up exactly 72hrs prior (eg you want 11:15am on Friday, you need to be online at 11:15am on Tuesday and submitting your request) are listed in UTC, and with only 4 slots per hour the popular times can go fast. IOW you can’t wait until the day prior and expect to get what you want. That said the peak reservations are for the weekend prior to the show and the first few days of the show. So chances for getting an acceptable time increase as the weeks goes on.

Do not plan on getting a pop-up IFR clearance whatsoever. It obviously has worked, but it’s akin to counting on hope as a course of action—not recommended.
 
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In my case, coming from DFW area, it's around 5 hours of total flight time, so very doable in a single day, taking off early in the morning and arriving around noon, with 1 stop for fuel.
Based on your comment, it may be easier to find an ifr slot for the weekend after the show starts then.
 
MacFlier said:
In my case, coming from DFW area, it's around 5 hours of total flight time, so very doable in a single day, taking off early in the morning and arriving around noon, with 1 stop for fuel.
Based on your comment, it may be easier to find an ifr slot for the weekend after the show starts then.
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It’s 7hrs for us from Tampa with one stop halfway for gas. We aim to be airborne NLT 7am EDT to get us at Osh by 1pm CDT and to avoid the inevitable convective buildups as much as possible.
 
If you're brining pax, remember that for the last hour or so of the arrival, you'll be at 1800ft and 90kts, so WHEN (not if) it is bumpy and hot, you'll be 'stuck' there through the arrival process. My pax was pretty green around the gills by the time we landed last year. Luckily, we didn't lose any lunch. That's another reason I prefer to get there as early as possible - to avoid some of the afternoon heat and bumps down low. Unfortunately, we couldn't avoid it last year.
 
MacFlier said:
Hello all!
I'm planning to go to Oshkosh for the first time this year.
I'm instrument rated, with 350 TT and will be camping, arriving on Friday 28 and leaving on Monday 31st.
I'm flying from North Texas. Any good tips on routes? Vfr vs ifr?
Will there be space still on that day typically?
Super excited!
Click to expand...
What are you flying in? The EAA has been on a concerted effort to "turn nobody away by 2024." I don't think GA filled up last year, but you did end up getting sent to the way-south 40.
 
CJones said:
If you're brining pax, remember that for the last hour or so of the arrival, you'll be at 1800ft and 90kts, so WHEN (not if) it is bumpy and hot, you'll be 'stuck' there through the arrival process. My pax was pretty green around the gills by the time we landed last year. Luckily, we didn't lose any lunch. That's another reason I prefer to get there as early as possible - to avoid some of the afternoon heat and bumps down low. Unfortunately, we couldn't avoid it last year.
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I did want to add that my pax last year was my 10 y/o son (his first trip to OSH). He was 6 shades of green when we landed, but he held it together. I was trying to perk him up a bit: "Hey look at all these planes (in the N40) lined up!" Him: "Meh.. ugh.. ok..." ... Then we taxied behind a Honda Jet and he perked up a little "Wait.. Is that... a... JET!?" I said "Yeah...".. Then we taxied past Warbirds enroute to HBC and I said "Those are jets, too." Him: "OH whoa! This is awesome!".. Then they held a DC-3 for us to taxi by. Then we as we rolled past the other end of warbirds he said "Wait.. Is that a P-51?" "Nope. That's a Corsair.. but that one up there is a P-51."......"And ALLLL of these are P-51's".. By that point, he had rid himself of green gills and his head was on a swivel.. "THIS.. IS... AWSOME!!!!"
 
flyingron said:
What are you flying in? The EAA has been on a concerted effort to "turn nobody away by 2024." I don't think GA filled up last year, but you did end up getting sent to the way-south 40.
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He's planning to fly in towards the end of the show --doubt he'll have any issues finding space.
 
My son when he was about 13 went with us to Oshkosh. He had been trained to keep an eye out for other planes when in the air and let us know when he saw one. He about had a fit as we were approaching Ripon, he'd never seen so many planes in the air.

Of course, that was also the same trip that we were flying home and I had just flown through a light rainshower but still VFR when suddenly the entire cockpit lit up. I thought we'd been struck by lightning or something but then I realized he was trying to take a picture of the glory from the backseat and his camera flash had autofired.
 
Know your power settings for 90 KIAS in cruise and in landing configuration, so you can arrive at the right speed and keep on speed when you put the gear and flaps down, without being head-down in the cockpit.

Practice spot landings, as well as gracefully accepting when you land a little long. Landing 200 feet after the assigned dot: normal. Ground-looping on the assigned dot: bad. Going around because you missed your spot by a few feet: not necessarily bad, but kind of annoying for everyone involved.

Go in with full fuel. That way, you won't have an emergency if you end up holding for a while.

Go in with a clean bill of health. If you have maintenance done just before the trip, test fly it a bunch somewhere other than the Fisk arrival.

Have good alternates selected for various situations including long holds, bad weather, and mechanical issues. One guy when I flew in the first time (2018) had an alternator failure and I wanted to scream, "Go to your alternate, it's right there in the name of your problem!"

Plan to arrive VFR, no matter your qualifications or luck getting an IFR arrival slot. It's more fun and more likely to succeed than insisting on going in IFR.

Know how to get an IFR slot in advance, so if you end up needing one you are closer to the front of the line of the people competing with you for the slot.

Bring real tie-downs, plywood to put under your wheels, spare oil, a power bank for your phone, cash, and a credit card.

Study the NOTAM. It changes a little each year but not a lot. It's all very easy, it just seems complicated because there are different scenarios that they have to plan for and they have done a good job with it.
 
I think the IFR vs VFR arrival "fun" value is debatable (and I've done both), but one thing I recommend is if you do go VFR and they are holding over Green Lake, I'd find a place to land and wait it out vs engaging in that craziness -- that's definently no one's idea of fun.
 
tsts4 said:
I think the IFR vs VFR arrival "fun" value is debatable (and I've done both), but one thing I recommend is if you do go VFR and they are holding over Green Lake, I'd find a place to land and wait it out vs engaging in that craziness -- that's definently no one's idea of fun.
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That is my agreement with myself. I've never held at Oshkosh, but have held at SnF. After doing that a couple of times, I realized those holds are absolutely NOT the place to be.
 
tsts4 said:
I think the IFR vs VFR arrival "fun" value is debatable (and I've done both), but one thing I recommend is if you do go VFR and they are holding over Green Lake, I'd find a place to land and wait it out vs engaging in that craziness -- that's definently no one's idea of fun.
Click to expand...

kyleb said:
That is my agreement with myself. I've never held at Oshkosh, but have held at SnF. After doing that a couple of times, I realized those holds are absolutely NOT the place to be.
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I've lucked up and haven't had to hold on the OSH VFR arrival (famous last words), but after watching the debacle year before last unfold via ADSBExchange, I want no part of it. As soon as I hear the words "Hold over...", I'm heading somewhere else.
 
MacFlier said:
My initial plan is to go vfr but have IFR as a backup in case the weather goes crap but still doable.
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if you think about it, that’s probably everyone’s plan (if they are IFR). Have plans C, D and E ready.

if the weather is bad, IFR slots will be gone. Be up super early the next day and in line for the VFR arrival when the field open. It will be a zoo by 9am.

my plan A is arrive Thursday.
 
So much depends on the weather. That could even dictate whether you fly in the afternoon, or snug up within an hour then fly the next morning. Just be flexible, parking should be easy towards the end of the show.

Yeah, read last year’s Notam until this year is out. I’d lean to the VFR arrival if wx allows.
 
CJones said:
I've lucked up and haven't had to hold on the OSH VFR arrival (famous last words), but after watching the debacle year before last unfold via ADSBExchange, I want no part of it. As soon as I hear the words "Hold over...", I'm heading somewhere else.
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I've gone to Airventure twice: 2018 and 2021. The arrival was a nightmare in 2018. I held about 90 minutes, then diverted to rest and gas up after one of the planes didn't only break the single-file, same-altitude rule (they were 3 abreast and 3 high in the hold) but also went the wrong direction around the lake. I tried again after lunch and spent 60 more minutes holding before diverting out to camp elsewhere for the night. The closest I got to the field that day was almost Fisk, but some genius decided to cut in front of me from above and get us both sent away just as they closed the field. I had a phone conference the next morning so I got a relatively late start back to Oshkosh. My friends who left first diverted again and never did land at Oshkosh that year, but by 10:00 or so when I arrived at Ripon things had calmed down to the point I struggled to find a plane to follow.

In 2021, I did one and a half laps around the lake as I arrived. The guy behind me got called out by tail number (thank you, ADS-B) to lead the charge to Ripon just after I passed the east corner on my hold entry half-lap, so I didn't have a big delay or any major drama in the hold.

I hope to go in this year and maybe sail in without holding anywhere. I'll try to post on the forum which day I plan to go in so the rest of you can plan on other days to avoid the holding shenanigans that will likely follow me.
 
iamtheari said:
Know your power settings for 90 KIAS in cruise and in landing configuration, so you can arrive at the right speed and keep on speed when you put the gear and flaps down, without being head-down in the cockpit.

Practice spot landings, as well as gracefully accepting when you land a little long. Landing 200 feet after the assigned dot: normal. Ground-looping on the assigned dot: bad. Going around because you missed your spot by a few feet: not necessarily bad, but kind of annoying for everyone involved.

Go in with full fuel. That way, you won't have an emergency if you end up holding for a while.

Go in with a clean bill of health. If you have maintenance done just before the trip, test fly it a bunch somewhere other than the Fisk arrival.

Have good alternates selected for various situations including long holds, bad weather, and mechanical issues. One guy when I flew in the first time (2018) had an alternator failure and I wanted to scream, "Go to your alternate, it's right there in the name of your problem!"

Plan to arrive VFR, no matter your qualifications or luck getting an IFR arrival slot. It's more fun and more likely to succeed than insisting on going in IFR.

Know how to get an IFR slot in advance, so if you end up needing one you are closer to the front of the line of the people competing with you for the slot.

Bring real tie-downs, plywood to put under your wheels, spare oil, a power bank for your phone, cash, and a credit card.

Study the NOTAM. It changes a little each year but not a lot. It's all very easy, it just seems complicated because there are different scenarios that they have to plan for and they have done a good job with it.
Click to expand...
This is a great list! Thanks for posting. This should be pinned!
 
I’ve never held either, have gone to Fond Du Lac a time or two, parking was full. Most of the holding happens on a busy Sunday or even Saturday, compounded with arrival shutdowns for military or high priority traffic. Just add marginal weather, all the more so.

Come in 0720 on a weekday, when the weather was ok the evening prior, very civilized.

Say the weather was terrible Sunday, all those arrivals will be stacked up for 0700 Monday morning.
 
If you show up Monday or Tuesday, the traffic should be much less than the first sat/sun.
 
CJones said:
I've lucked up and haven't had to hold on the OSH VFR arrival (famous last words), but after watching the debacle year before last unfold via ADSBExchange, I want no part of it. As soon as I hear the words "Hold over...", I'm heading somewhere else.
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Me either. We waited it out after one of the accidents last year.

I definitely plan on going in on Friday this year
 
tsts4 said:
That's not true whatsoever, assuming the field is above IFR mins, although you'll still need an IFR arrival slot. And having a Plan B whether VFR or IFR is always sound advice. For OSH, having a Plan C, particularly if there's a major weather event in the OSH area the day prior to your intended arrival, wouldn't hurt either.
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My plan for years has been 1st alternate Appleton, 2nd Madison, 3rd Stay somewhere south of the front and wait it out. And there is almost always a front of some kind that week.

With the new arrivals plan, Madison is a good place to stop anyway, to grab breakfast or coffee and get your head together on what comes next.
 
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