Oshkosh 2021 Notam - Airventure

tsts4 said:
It’s not really that big of an issue. I mean we’ve only been doing this for decades. It’s not perfect but generally gets the job done.
Click to expand...

Yeah, over thinking it, but I want to be prepared. I'm hoping it will be a quick shot through.
 
You’ll be fine. Just worry about yourself and not the knuckle heads out there which you can’t do anything about. Be able to aviate (ie hold heading, altitude, & airspeed), follow the NOTAM’s procedures, and be prepared to adjust as necessary—gotta be flexible. It ain’t rocket surgery.
 
iamtheari said:
I think it recovers by people cooperating and bailing out as needed. If everyone follows that rule, the accordion effect will disappear. In the roughly 16-mile arrival procedure from Ripon to KOSH via Fisk, a 90-knot plane will gain 3.2 miles on a 75-knot plane. With 1/2-mile spacing, that means 7 planes will have to bail out between the 90-knot conga line and the 75-knot conga line they are behind. It shouldn't be too much to ask for 7 people to follow the rules when doing so will cure the problem.
Click to expand...

I agree, cooperation is key, and I certainly don't have a recommendation for a better way to do it...but the scenario you outline above has almost 25% of the planes bailing out of the arrival procedure to accommodate that 75 KT aircraft.
 
PaulS said:
Yeah, over thinking it, but I want to be prepared. I'm hoping it will be a quick shot through.
Click to expand...
Preparation really is the key. I had no issues going in my first time and I'm not even that good of a pilot, I'm just a Boy Scout following the motto to be prepared. To quote a book from a different hobby: Relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew.

The entire experience is a ton of fun, even when things go sideways. My friends in their Bonanza and I were trying to get in for our first time on Sunday in 2018, which was reportedly among the worst times in history. All the Saturday mass arrivals got pushed back to Sunday and they were using 9 or 27 for those and 36L/36R for the rest of us, forcing a full mile spacing and a lot of shenanigans. But despite that, when we diverted out of the hold for lunch at KDLL the landing order was my friends' Bonanza, then Patty Wagstaff, then my Arrow. We had some entertainment there, including watching someone whose new Twin Beech just didn't want to keep the oil in both engines all the way to Oshkosh and listening to the Fisk frequency on the FBO's loudspeaker. After lunch, we held at Green Lake a while longer and finally gave up, ending up at KUNU, where we and maybe a couple hundred other planes set up camp for the night. Two planes down from us, we found the former owner of my friends' Bonanza. They had a guitar and everyone had booze, so it was a fun airplane camping experience even if it was a few miles south of where we had planned to be. I think you have to bring your own champagne if you're in a Cirrus, but other than that you will fit right in anywhere between the arrival and the air show.

When I finally got in through the mess on Monday morning, I thought I was home free but I got told to sidestep from 36L to 36R as I was turning final. The reason became clear as I touched down on the red square: The Trimotor took off from 36L and swooped over me as it turned out toward the lake. That was my "Welcome to Oshkosh" moment and I'll never forget it.

Back to preparation... Know your power setting for 90 knots in different flap configurations so you can spend less time inside the cockpit chasing the ASI needle. Practice spot landings a little bit. And then just fly the thing, don't bend your airplane or cook your cylinders in the name of doing something just right. For example, people have bent their airplanes trying to land exactly on their dot. It's far better to miss the dot by a couple hundred feet than to foul the runway in front of thousands of spectators. Because the rest of POA will all get there before you and set up our lawn chairs and beer coolers to watch you land. :)

TLDR: Don't stress out. It's supposed to be fun and it will be fun.
 
So, if I do the math... 3.2 miles, 1/2 spacing = 6.25 A/C. And 7 will need to bail?
 
A1Topgun said:
So, if I do the math... 3.2 miles, 1/2 spacing = 6.25 A/C. And 7 will need to bail?
Click to expand...
16 miles between Ripon and the airport, 1/2 mile spacing = 32 planes. The 3.2 mile figure was how much a 90-knot plane gains on a 75-knot plane in the time the 75-knot plane takes to fly the 16 miles. So 6.25 planes have to bail out, but I'd rather keep my empennage and wings together so I rounded up to 7. :)

GaryM said:
I agree, cooperation is key, and I certainly don't have a recommendation for a better way to do it...but the scenario you outline above has almost 25% of the planes bailing out of the arrival procedure to accommodate that 75 KT aircraft.
Click to expand...
As long as the planes gaining on the guy in front of them bail out rather than slowing down, the line will promptly get back to 90 knots and 1/2-mile spacing with no more bail-outs. 7 of 32 might be almost 25% of the planes between Ripon and KOSH at that moment, but it's 0.07% of the total number of planes going into Oshkosh. Even if this happens 8 times a day for 6 days, it still adds up to just 3.4% of the total planes going in that ever have to bail out of the arrival.

It stinks to have to delay your own arrival to accommodate a slower plane, but I think it's better than insisting on keeping your place in line, slowing down until you can't see over your cowl, and forcing people behind you to do the same. I'm not perfect. As I posted previously, I tried the slowing down option and still didn't get in because of another plane deciding to cut into line from above. Lesson learned, I'll bail out early next time that happens.
 
Why not have the 75 kt guy bail out, and tell him "come back when when you're faster, or there's less planes that you're holding up" ?

Instead 6 of them get sent around. Brilliant. There's a reason bicycles aren't allowed on (most) Interstates. I say most because I believe there's a bridge or two that allow bikes to cross.
 
iamtheari said:
My friends in their Bonanza and I were trying to get in for our first time on Sunday in 2018, which was reportedly among the worst times in history. All the Saturday mass arrivals got pushed back to Sunday and they were using 9 or 27 for those and 36L/36R for the rest of us, forcing a full mile spacing and a lot of shenanigans.
Click to expand...

In 2018, I spent a good bit of time listening to the arrivals online. I remember the weather screwing everything up, and the subsequent stack-up of planes on the arrival once the weather finally cleared.

That Monday, I recall the arrivals sounding busy and a little hairy, albeit manageable, when all of a sudden an announcement came out that the arrivals were shutdown due to a USAF B-1 inbound. It wasn't a brief delay either, seemed like the arrivals were closed for a significant amount of time (15 minutes, or maybe longer), with resultant chaos for everyone on the arrival and in the hold.

Always thought it was kind of backwards that they shutdown the main arrival routes in order to let the B-1 in. It's the EAA show after all, not some USAF airshow. While I like seeing big military hardware as much as the next guy/gal, it seemed like the prudent action there would have been to wave off the B-1. Or at least some more coordination between the B-1 launch and the EAA, so they could time it a little better.

Wondering is there some prioritization that happens about who to let in? Is the military prioritized over the civilian aircraft? Anyone else recall seeing/hearing the B-1 arrival unfold?
 
I think the most important thing to do is watch the Oshkosh weather leading up to the Show. If the wx sucks right before the show you know you're going to have a tough time getting in.
 
Last edited:
fasteddie said:
In 2018, I spent a good bit of time listening to the arrivals online. I remember the weather screwing everything up, and the subsequent stack-up of planes on the arrival once the weather finally cleared.

That Monday, I recall the arrivals sounding busy and a little hairy, albeit manageable, when all of a sudden an announcement came out that the arrivals were shutdown due to a USAF B-1 inbound. It wasn't a brief delay either, seemed like the arrivals were closed for a significant amount of time (15 minutes, or maybe longer), with resultant chaos for everyone on the arrival and in the hold.

Always thought it was kind of backwards that they shutdown the main arrival routes in order to let the B-1 in. It's the EAA show after all, not some USAF airshow. While I like seeing big military hardware as much as the next guy/gal, it seemed like the prudent action there would have been to wave off the B-1. Or at least some more coordination between the B-1 launch and the EAA, so they could time it a little better.

Wondering is there some prioritization that happens about who to let in? Is the military prioritized over the civilian aircraft? Anyone else recall seeing/hearing the B-1 arrival unfold?
Click to expand...
My best, completely uneducated guess at the reasoning behind that decision: Telling USAF to burn a ton of jet fuel to hold for GA arrivals might weigh against the USAF showing up in the future, and EAA probably sells more tickets when there is USAF hardware on the ground at KOSH.

I got really lucky on Monday. My friends took off from KUNU right away in the morning. I had to wait for a scheduled conference call before I could blast off. My friends ended up at Fond du Lac. When I came in, it was eerily quiet from Ripon all the way to the airport.
 
Regarding prioritization…. The show must go on seems to be the common thread.

In 2016(?) there was a fatal crash near 36/18 and they closed the field for a couple of hours. When they re-opened, 18/36 remained closed and they were arriving /departing aircraft on 27. Hundreds of aircraft were queued up to leave and there were plenty of inbounds too.

But the ride giving Tri-motors (two of them) dominated the runway time until the airport closed.
 
PaulS said:
Flying level at say 80 knots with full flaps most likely will cause an engine cooling issue pretty quickly due to the increased power needed and slow speed. Probably a bad idea.
Click to expand...

I've had work conflicts EVERY time and have not made a single OSH since starting flying back in 2006. I can fly super slow, but not long periods because of the above. My RV has already had complete new baffle adjustment, checed k oil cooler, vernatherm, etc. I can extend somewhat using low RPM low MP, but like to keep the oil below 235* ... not sure I can fly an hour at 90 without overheating ... flying the 90 is no issue, could do 80 if it wouldn't over heat

Was setup to go last year, had work blocked months in advance ... couldn't block for vacation this year as we are short handed ...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Before they had the system of dots on the runway
Click to expand...
The beginning reminds me of 2018:

"High wings, turn left and go back to Ripon. Low wings, turn left, back to Ripon. T-tails and V-tails, turn left and go back to Ripon."
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Before they had the system of dots on the runway
Click to expand...
Credit where credit is due: the first controller on that "Fantastic Friday" tape is Gene Simmons; the second is Dave Shepard. I worked OSH with both (Gene was also my first tower chief, at FNT), and they were among the best. Both gone west now, R.I.P.
 
iamtheari said:
Preparation really is the key. I had no issues going in my first time and I'm not even that good of a pilot, I'm just a Boy Scout following the motto to be prepared. To quote a book from a different hobby: Relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew.

The entire experience is a ton of fun, even when things go sideways. My friends in their Bonanza and I were trying to get in for our first time on Sunday in 2018, which was reportedly among the worst times in history. All the Saturday mass arrivals got pushed back to Sunday and they were using 9 or 27 for those and 36L/36R for the rest of us, forcing a full mile spacing and a lot of shenanigans. But despite that, when we diverted out of the hold for lunch at KDLL the landing order was my friends' Bonanza, then Patty Wagstaff, then my Arrow. We had some entertainment there, including watching someone whose new Twin Beech just didn't want to keep the oil in both engines all the way to Oshkosh and listening to the Fisk frequency on the FBO's loudspeaker. After lunch, we held at Green Lake a while longer and finally gave up, ending up at KUNU, where we and maybe a couple hundred other planes set up camp for the night. Two planes down from us, we found the former owner of my friends' Bonanza. They had a guitar and everyone had booze, so it was a fun airplane camping experience even if it was a few miles south of where we had planned to be. I think you have to bring your own champagne if you're in a Cirrus, but other than that you will fit right in anywhere between the arrival and the air show.

When I finally got in through the mess on Monday morning, I thought I was home free but I got told to sidestep from 36L to 36R as I was turning final. The reason became clear as I touched down on the red square: The Trimotor took off from 36L and swooped over me as it turned out toward the lake. That was my "Welcome to Oshkosh" moment and I'll never forget it.

Back to preparation... Know your power setting for 90 knots in different flap configurations so you can spend less time inside the cockpit chasing the ASI needle. Practice spot landings a little bit. And then just fly the thing, don't bend your airplane or cook your cylinders in the name of doing something just right. For example, people have bent their airplanes trying to land exactly on their dot. It's far better to miss the dot by a couple hundred feet than to foul the runway in front of thousands of spectators. Because the rest of POA will all get there before you and set up our lawn chairs and beer coolers to watch you land. :)

TLDR: Don't stress out. It's supposed to be fun and it will be fun.
Click to expand...
My long-time Sunday tradition, sitting at the Red Barn watching the follies.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Question. Assuming no weather issues (I know I know) is it a cluster from start to finish on Sunday?
Every time I have flown in, it has been around noon and it has been a S**tshow. I cannot believe there are not like 5 midairs an hour.

My plan is to target 7:00 AM. My Hope is that "most" people aren't trying to be Johnny on that spot or is that incorrect?
Just wondering if I will crap my pants less if I show up early rather than when 20 planes have groundlooped, geard up, and the holds are full.
Why do we do this again?
Click to expand...
The past few years I’ve planned to hit Ripon at 7:15-7:30 and haven’t had too much trouble. Plans being what they are, I arrived closer to 7:45. The only time I had trouble was when clouds were still too low and I had to wait it out at Madison because I didn’t have an IFR slot.
 
JimNtexas said:
If you have time, visit Ripon in person. It is a better airshow than most of the airshow.
Click to expand...
They should run a bus from the air show to the VFR arrival landmarks. I would do a day trip for sure.
 
Kbuu - Burlington has cheap gas most of the time. Can get a little busy but nothing compared to OSH.
 
I've gone into Gary a few times and also VPZ and some of the other northern Indiana airports, but my FAVORITE is 02C in Wisconsin. It's a good place to stop (there's a Subway and a Culvers right off the airport) and they have both 100LL and MOGAS at good prices.
 
flyingron said:
I've gone into Gary a few times and also VPZ and some of the other northern Indiana airports, but my FAVORITE is 02C in Wisconsin. It's a good place to stop (there's a Subway and a Culvers right off the airport) and they have both 100LL and MOGAS at good prices.
Click to expand...


The folks at 02C (Capital Drive, Brookfield, WI) are amazing! They are very nice people and very accommodating.

Bring your own tie downs (and tie down anchors) if you plan to stay a while. There are concrete pads for the plane, but any tie down anchors are lost in the grass.
 
I got an email from them 2 days ago saying mine have been shipped out and would be here in 5-7 business days.
 
Per USPS Informed Delivery this morning, they will be in my mailbox today.
 
Got mine Saturday.

Edit:
Duh oh, I got the notam Saturday, still waiting for tickets.
 
Last edited:
Are advanced tickets for a certain day? Just asking, not sure about the exact day(s) yet.
 
sourdough44 said:
Are advanced tickets for a certain day? Just asking, not sure about the exact day(s) yet.
Click to expand...

I think the advanced tickets, where they send them to you, that ship has sailed. But you could get daily tickets or weekly. Best bet to check the website.
 
A1Topgun said:
Is EAA mailing out wrist bands or tickets to redeem for wrist bands?
Click to expand...

I did the contactless order, you had to do it by July 1. I think they send everything you need to just walk right in.
 
sourdough44 said:
Yes, my usual plan is to get the day tickets.
Click to expand...

You'll be fine--gett'em when you show up. It's cheaper to buy the day tickets up to 3 days. On the 4th day the weekly pass costs the same. IMO the discount for advanced tickets isn't really worth it, especially if your plans are subject to change. YMMV....
 
Tickets came today!! and the Notam!
 
We were sent to one of the upstream transition lakes when we arrived early Friday afternoon. Traffic was light so it wasn’t a problem. I really didn’t understand why the transition was in use at that volume level anyway.
 
Watching adsb exchange yesterday, they were using endeavor Bridge even when it was light. When it got even moderately busy they made up a new procedure and had everyone go 5 miles south of there to portage wi. At this rate next year the procedure will start at cmi and it'll be faster to drive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top