Oshkosh - 2019

[SinkorSwim]

Arrived Sunday - Leaving in the morning (Wednesday). Takeaways:
1. Basler is awesome, ramp parking is worth every penny.
2. Got lucky with a great AirB&B.
3.Uber was flawless.
4.Aspen is awesome, sold me.
5.Spruces rep that I talked to was a 8!tch
6. Didn’t find any big discounts.
7. The weather was amazing.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

T-Minus 8 hours until Dad and I launch for his first OshKosh.

 

[GRG55]

T-Minus 8 hours until Dad and I launch for his first OshKosh.

Good weather timing!

Don't forget to turn left.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Good weather timing!

Don't forget to turn left.

We rigged the ailerons to ensure it only turns left.

 

[StevieTimes]

Scholler has devolved to a state of anarchy. My 15 year old called me freaking out this morning because some jag off moved our stuff out of our site and set up his camp while we were away. Our neighbors called security.

 

[flibmeister]

Doesn’t the NOTAM say to do 1800 feet and 90 knots unless you can’t do so? I read that as do the low route unless it’s not safe for you to do the high route.

You are exactly right, that (or a version of it) has been in the Notam since the late '80s.

I know-- because I totally rewrote the Notam at that time, and I put it there. The controllers have to mesh the two streams together at some point, and one of their biggest pet peeves was the number of airplanes flying the 135 knot pattern not because they needed to, but just because they could.

IIRC, my language was stronger, something along the lines of, "High performance aircraft that are incapable of being safely flown at 90 knots may fly at 2300' and 135 knots". So, the language has been watered down some-- but the intent hasn't changed. Anybody flying a Bonanza, that cannot do so safely at 90 knots, has no business flying into Oshkosh.

 

[CJones]

5.Spruces rep that I talked to was a 8!tch

Was it a tall(ish) tan long-haired brunette? If so, she's from the FFC store - I think she gets a little tense from all the scuzzy airport bums coming in to hit on her. ha!

 

[Pilawt]

Been watching the Vintage Cam (aka"Wasp Cam") all morning. Traffic on 18/36 has been hopping, and EAA has kept the camera aimed right at the yellow dot, rather than panning around the grounds. Excellent! Thanks.

 

[EdFred]

You are exactly right, that (or a version of it) has been in the Notam since the late '80s.

I know-- because I totally rewrote the Notam at that time, and I put it there. The controllers have to mesh the two streams together at some point, and one of their biggest pet peeves was the number of airplanes flying the 135 knot pattern not because they needed to, but just because they could.

IIRC, my language was stronger, something along the lines of, "High performance aircraft that are incapable of being safely flown at 90 knots may fly at 2300' and 135 knots". So, the language has been watered down some-- but the intent hasn't changed. Anybody flying a Bonanza, that cannot do so safely at 90 knots, has no business flying into Oshkosh.

So how does one define safely? If I have to fly nose high to keep ninety knots and can't see over the nose, even though the plane isn't "mushy" does that mean it is no longer being flown safely?

 

[steingar]

I flew in Sunday evening and was one of the last aircraft to get a camping spot. I flowed a Cessna that wasn’t doing anything close to 90 knots, more like 80 mph. Can’t blame him, he was probably making space with the guy in front of him. Did it in a Mooney clean. Didn’t drop the gear until clear of FISKE, didn’t put in flaps until the base leg. Had a great landing too. I agree, if you can’t fly your aircraft at pattern speeds you don’t belong at the show.

 

[EdFred]

I flew in Sunday evening and was one of the last aircraft to get a camping spot. I flowed a Cessna that wasn’t doing anything close to 90 knots, more like 80 mph. Can’t blame him, he was probably making space with the guy in front of him. Did it in a Mooney clean. Didn’t drop the gear until clear of FISKE, didn’t put in flaps until the base leg. Had a great landing too. I agree, if you can’t fly your aircraft at pattern speeds you don’t belong at the show.

80mph is what I cross the numbers at and is well below safe if clean.

 

[FlyingElvii]

Not horrible. My Verizon hotspot isn’t fast in the North 40, but still works. ATT phone is spotty on the grounds, but fine at the campsite.

Seems like cell service in the entire area is spotty. Likely a byproduct of the weekend storms.

 

[5QK]

I've had zero problems with Verizon

 

[Cluemeister]

Was it a tall(ish) tan long-haired brunette? If so, she's from the FFC store - I think she gets a little tense from all the scuzzy airport bums coming in to hit on her. ha!

 

[EdFred]

And we wonder why she may act that way.

 

[danhagan]

Why in the world wouldn't you just fly 135 knots at 2300?

So if the aircraft can operate at 90 knots without being dangerous, you should. No reason a Bonanza or other similar retracts can’t do that.

I know-- because I totally rewrote the Notam at that time, and I put it there. The controllers have to mesh the two streams together at some point, and one of their biggest pet peeves was the number of airplanes flying the 135 knot pattern not because they needed to, but just because they could.

The Vansairfoce guys think along the same lines ... give back your man card or go take lessons if you can't do slow flight.

If I had flown this year, I would've hiked my dress up and taken the high road ... not because I can't fly as slow as the cub doing 70 instead of 90, but that my oil temps increase FAST doing slow flight maneuvers with decreased air flow to the cooler. Looking at options during the conditional this week (including possible cowl flap) to get better oil cooling.

 

[AGLyme]

So, here I am in a hotel 65 miles away from OSH it is 2:39 pm and OSH plane camping is closed (full) with the next update at 6. I will launch and if it’s still closed, i’ll go to Fon D L... and camp there and bus it in... excellent flight from CT today... Chicago skyline is awesome. Fly safely all

 

[UngaWunga]

Flew in this morning around 10. Very easy, I listened to Fiske and they were sending everyone over Green lake because they were too close and idiots stepping in the controllers. So I slowed it down in the 172, waited for the mess to clear. They were starting everyone from the SE corner of Green lake to line up there and then proceed to Fiske. Very easy, worked well. Landing on the orange dot on 27.

Need to get some food. Had 3 hours of sleep last night in some fbo lounge in Ohio last night, and the other guys staying there all snored. Also found some friends with a keg, so I need so e food....

 

[UngaWunga]

That f35 sure is burning through taxpayer dollars today... Lol

 

[Kent Wien]

Just a shout out to AGLyme who nailed it today. Eastern Connecticut to Fon du Lac in 8 hours and 4 minutes. All in one day in his Light Sport Flight Design CTLSi. Made it look easy, I tell you!

Congrats, buddy!

 

[Flocker]

We're wheels up tomorrow morning at 0800 (12Z) from PDK. Staying 'til Sunday.

 

[Dave Theisen]

We're wheels up tomorrow morning at 0800 (12Z) from PDK. Staying 'til Sunday.

I’m leaving from PDK at 0830, but I’m guessing I’ll beat you there since the boss is letting us take the Citation. . Only there for the day, but better than not going at all.

 

[GRG55]

I’m leaving from PDK at 0830, but I’m guessing I’ll beat you there since the boss is letting us take the Citation. . Only there for the day, but better than not going at all.

Things dried up enough they're letting Citations onto the grass without tundra tires now?
Just askin'

 

[steingar]

80mph is what I cross the numbers at and is well below safe if clean.

My Mooney stalls clean at 67 mph. So 80 mph is 1.2 VSO. I’d rather 1.3, but we get what we get. Thought about dirtying up the airframe, but the flaps introduce a pitch down motion I didn’t need while following that guy. Not how I want to fly, but not on the ragged edge either.

 

[sourdough44]

Got home this eve, two days. Did a bunch of research, main thing I bought was some Phillips oil. It was a great time, even fit in a few safety briefs. The FISKE arrival Wednesday morning was fairly mild. I ended up in that patch East of the ‘terminal’. It was a hike to get around the airport to get inside, better than Fondy though.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Pretty good trip for us so far. We drove in and arrived yesterday. I was kind of hoping the they'd have one of those 100+ drone demos during the night airshow and was disappointed they didn't. But it was still a really good airshow without it. The fireworks at the end were probably the most entertaining display I've ever seen.

My wife and I got to sit in the RV12 today and were happy to find that we fit in it fine. Which is good news since we just bought tail and fuselage kit. I was hoping to find some show specials on tools for the project but didn't find anything that was discounted.

I stupidly put our camera down somewhere today and walked away forgetting it. Realized about 40 minutes later I no longer had the camera. Went to lost and found but they didn't have any cameras. Filled out form on it and got call from them 1/2 an hour later when someone turned it in.

 

[Daytonabch04]

I flew in Sunday evening and was one of the last aircraft to get a camping spot. I flowed a Cessna that wasn’t doing anything close to 90 knots, more like 80 mph. Can’t blame him, he was probably making space with the guy in front of him. Did it in a Mooney clean. Didn’t drop the gear until clear of FISKE, didn’t put in flaps until the base leg. Had a great landing too. I agree, if you can’t fly your aircraft at pattern speeds you don’t belong at the show.

I flew in Sunday evening once the airport opened from FLD. I flew the Ripon/Fiske at 2300/135 in my Mooney. For me, I felt it was safer than trying to manage the airspeed and spacing at 1800 with all the other traffic. I probably would have gained on the traffic in a blink as 90 5 miles out is more of a challenge than 2300. Not that I couldn’t, but felt higher was safer. I got the turn right, left base for 36L and descended to 1800 once on base leg.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I flew in Sunday evening once the airport opened from FLD. I flew the Ripon/Fiske at 2300/135 in my Mooney. For me, I felt it was safer than trying to manage the airspeed and spacing at 1800 with all the other traffic. I probably would have gained on the traffic in a blink as 90 5 miles out is more of a challenge than 2300. Not that I couldn’t, but felt higher was safer. I got the turn right, left base for 36L and descended to 1800 once on base leg.

Same here. Came in Sunday night and tried 1800 ft., but twice got balked down by traffic ahead to sub-70 kt speeds, at which point I peeled off and headed back to Ripon. Third time I came in at 2300 ft, and even then guys weren't capable of maintaining 135 kts indicated. But at least it was doable and felt safer.

 

[steingar]

I could have done likewise, but to me that approach is for folks who can’t do 90 knots. I can. I admit, it was slow for my Mooney. But I feel very strongly that a pilot should be able to fly his aircraft at the edge of its envelope and not exceed it. I don’t like being behind the power curve, but it was worth it to get in. Had I peeled out I’d not have made it in Sunday night, and from what I’ve heard Monday wasn’t much better.

 

[danhagan]

Same here. Came in Sunday night and tried 1800 ft., but twice got balked down by traffic ahead to sub-70 kt speeds, at which point I peeled off and headed back to Ripon. Third time I came in at 2300 ft, and even then guys weren't capable of maintaining 135 kts indicated. But at least it was doable and felt safer.

My oil temps climb to 225* when doing slow flight, haven't tried with flaps deployed. Your message above will draw out the "you should be able to fly in the 90 lane" crowd ... which would be a piece of cake until your "sub-70" situation occurs like you stated.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Anyone still at OSH want to get/ship me some of the Rock Your Wings beer? I’ll compensate obviously

 

[UngaWunga]

Arrived Wednesday morning after an overnight somewhere in Ohio, sleeping on a fbo couch. Arrival was easy. I was listening to approach, and they weren't happy with everyone's spacing, and were sending everyone back to Green Lake to clean it up. I heard that 30 min out and slowed down until it all got cleaned up. Then they tried making everyone get in line at the SE corner of green lake and THEN come to Fiske. That worked out well. I slotted in right behind a Cherokee looking plane, kept it right at 90. Got routed to 27, landed just short of the orange dot. Pretty easy.

Left friday morning before the storm, wanted to visit family in VA. Headed back up the east coast to NH Saturday after a run up the Hudson. Fun week.

Have some great pictures of clouds as I dodged storms on the way in and the way home.

 

[Matthew]

My flight back was 6500 the first half and 10,500 the second half. At 10.5 it was great flying. Back in KC we got down to 3500 and got really bounced around in that warm, muggy air.

Got a pic somewhere near the IA/MO border at 10.5.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Why in the world wouldn't you just fly 135 knots at 2300?

Yeah, I don't know why more of the retract crowd doesn't do this.

Several reasons - And I'm saying this as someone who is intimately familiar with the procedure, having done it somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 times now, toured the tower and visited Fisk during the show and talked to a bunch of the controllers, etc...

First reason: Because that's what the NOTAM says. They watered down the language a bit this year so that it says "unable to maintain 90 knots comfortably" but it used to say "Unable" period, and even stronger language in the past. To me, that means twins with a Vyse of greater than 90 knots, and maybe a few other exceptions... But there are other reasons too:

Second reason: Well, this one is aimed at the Cirri, Bonanzas, etc that are going to GAP or GAC. You'll save a couple of minutes of flight time on the arrival, but generally if it's fairly busy, the 90-knot arrival will go to 9/27 and the high arrivals will go to 18/36 - And if that happens, you'll spend up to an extra half hour taxiing, which will WAY more than kill the couple of minutes you saved on the fast arrival. Plus, if you're in a Cirrus, you're greatly elevating your risk of shredding your wheel pants with that long grass taxi. So, want to get in fast? Do the low arrival.

Third reason: If there's a nice stream of 1/2-mile-in-trail traffic on the low arrival and you come flying up the high arrival... Guess who's getting sent back? I guarantee it's not one of the nice stream.

I've done it both ways in the Mooney, but for the above reasons, I greatly prefer the low arrival, and that's the one I'll do as long as everyone's maintaining 90 knots. I do it with the gear down (controllers get antsy if you don't have your gear down by Fisk) and a notch of flaps so that I can keep my nose lower and see preceding traffic better.

So how does one define safely? If I have to fly nose high to keep ninety knots and can't see over the nose, even though the plane isn't "mushy" does that mean it is no longer being flown safely?

If you just leave your attitude behind, you'll have a much lower angle of attack at 90 knots and it won't be a problem any more.

80mph is what I cross the numbers at and is well below safe if clean.

Nobody said you should fly the arrival clean. Like I said above, I fly it with the gear down and a notch of flaps to keep the controllers happy and the traffic visible.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I was kind of hoping the they'd have one of those 100+ drone demos during the night airshow and was disappointed they didn't.

Wow. You're literally the first pilot I've heard talk about the drone show in positive terms.

Where we were sitting last year, we couldn't even tell what they were trying to do because we were looking at it almost from the side... And then it glitched out, a few of the drones didn't do what they were supposed to, etc... I think this year's show was much better without them.

But it was still a really good airshow without it. The fireworks at the end were probably the most entertaining display I've ever seen.

Absolutely. The "nuke" was spectacular, but everything leading up to it was as well. Mother Nature helped out by adding a lightning show to the south, and a meteor streaked overhead at one point too.

I stupidly put our camera down somewhere today and walked away forgetting it. Realized about 40 minutes later I no longer had the camera. Went to lost and found but they didn't have any cameras. Filled out form on it and got call from them 1/2 an hour later when someone turned it in.

Glad to hear it. After hearing about thefts of golf carts, drunk teenagers crashing into stuff, etc it's nice to know that at least some of the character of Oshkosh is still present. I think they're going to need to get a handle on some of the non-pilot crowd going forward though, and I hope everyone in attendance works to make it better next year.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Wow. You're literally the first pilot I've heard talk about the drone show in positive terms.

Drones are awesome pieces of tech for what they are. I'm not really afraid of hitting one and I don't otherwise feel threatened by them, what's not to like?

 

[AGLyme]

First, thank you to all the fine people on this site for answering my questions about flying to OSH, I am grateful. And I put your answers and advice to good use.

For me, 96% of the OSH 2019 goal was the flight there and back. I made it, the plane flew perfectly and I learned a ton. The wind cooperated both ways, not a single headwind moment. Average flying speed was 130 mph and I burned sub 4 gals/hour. Astonishingly, I didn't have to stop on the way back, I could have made it back to my home airport in CT without a fuel stop, but I did anyway in Western New York... I wanted to physically stick the tanks even though I could see the physical fuel in the site tubes... and fill up, I am conservative by nature.

I realize the lake route was risky, but I spent hours researching the weather the night before. And I weighed the weather along the southern route vs the direct over the Lake(s) route. The WX (rain, cloud and wind potential) was far better over the lake, so I chose that.

I never did fly into OSH as airplane camping was closed every time I checked, FDL was my temporary Wisconsin home. It wasn't a booby prize either. It was quiet (slept like a rock on night #1) and several warbirds flew in and out just yards away from us... felt like a very private airshow. Finally, I shoved off at 5:40 AM Friday from FDL without the conga line. For me, it worked well. Photos below...

The coolest part flying out was the "FLY Chicago" route. My AA pilot pal turned me onto this route and I am glad he did. The view was absolutely amazing and the Chicago Center controller started a minute long conversation with me about the scenery, etc. What a country !

 

[Grum.Man]

My high level take is this.

Probably the best turnout I have seen in the past 4 years even with the poor weather.
I expected a little more given it being the 50th anniversary. Not sure what, maybe some special appearances or idk.. just didn't seem different than any other year.
The dang scooters, golf carts, vehicles, buses, tractors, bicycles are getting out of control. They seriously need to cut back on that and they all drive like they have the right of way.
Every year more and more people arrive on Saturday and Sunday, they need more food options on those days.

 

[Avi8or2012]

Did anyone else feel as though the fly-overs dragged on during the airshow for too long? I was listening one day to the air boss, and some of the performers were being rushed and seemed frustrated while the fly overs went on for a while. My wife and I love the mass fly overs, but it went on for a long time.
I agree with @Grum.Man . It seemed a bit lackluster for 50th. We had a blast, though.

 

[Grum.Man]

Did anyone else feel as though the fly-overs dragged on during the airshow for too long? I was listening one day to the air boss, and some of the performers were being rushed and seemed frustrated while the fly overs went on for a while. My wife and I love the mass fly overs, but it went on for a long time.
I agree with @Grum.Man . It seemed a bit lackluster for 50th. We had a blast, though.

God yes! They were so freaking boring! The whole airshow this year just sucked in general. Too long of gaps between performers, some acts take way too long. Rob Ryder can't retire soon enough!