Oshkosh 2019 Pic Thread

ktup-flyer said:
Here you go. Looks like wake turbulence to me.
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That's a good example of continuing to fly the plane until you're stopped. It looks like he made a mistake, but he didn't panic. I'm sure quite a few pilots would not have done so well.
 
Dang, sure would suck to bone it up at the largest carnie in the hobby. Too much visibility. I prefer to make my mistakes in relative anonymity if I can help it.
 
ktup-flyer said:
Here you go. Looks like wake turbulence to me.
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You can see that the pilot side gear collapsed but its like it folded in the same direction it would stow. As he fly's down along the runway you can see the crashed gear dangle back and forth, once again in the same direction as it would stow and by the time he lands it is vertical and doesn't collapse. I'm a high wing guy but I don't think a 182RG or 210 would have had that same outcome...landing on all 3 gear 5 seconds later. Wow, that wing really struck hard. I bet that prop came pretty close to striking as well. I don't think it was wake turbulence from the Tri-Motor (or whatever it was) ahead of him. Its like he was gonna fly a short field but with the sharp turn his descent rate got away from him. Makes we wonder if he applied a bit too much left rudder as well to straighten it out but making it skid and wing down instead. Way to easy to armchair QB. I would definitely buy this guy a beer or 10 after that perfect recovery and landing.... could have ended so much differently.
 
Sinistar said:
You can see that the pilot side gear collapsed but its like it folded in the same direction it would stow. As he fly's down along the runway you can see the crashed gear dangle back and forth, once again in the same direction as it would stow and by the time he lands it is vertical and doesn't collapse. I'm a high wing guy but I don't think a 182RG or 210 would have had that same outcome...landing on all 3 gear 5 seconds later. Wow, that wing really struck hard. I bet that prop came pretty close to striking as well. I don't think it was wake turbulence from the Tri-Motor (or whatever it was) ahead of him. Its like he was gonna fly a short field but with the sharp turn his descent rate got away from him. Makes we wonder if he applied a bit too much left rudder as well to straighten it out but making it skid and wing down instead. Way to easy to armchair QB. I would definitely buy this guy a beer or 10 after that perfect recovery and landing.... could have ended so much differently.
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He ended up laying on the left wing with the wheel folded in
 
Here are the ones I can share so far... because EAA has shared them. I spent a lot of time shooting campsites and people this year. The air-to-air shots will come out later as usual. When you get to the polished 170, it goes into 2018 photos.

Coolest photo of the year was when the little boy asked me if he could show me his tattoo. I stopped traffic to get that shot!
EAA AirVenture Photos - Jack Fleetwood

48399771446_686a2fa228_b.jpg
 
BTW, I work with some amazing photographers and they've become like family. Check out all of the work published so far here. EAA AirVenture
 
ktup-flyer said:
He ended up laying on the left wing with the wheel folded in
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I caught it on the Vintage Cam after this. Looking at the video, it wouldn't surprise me that he was in a wings level, nose level stall condition, no energy going forward. You can stall at any attitude. The plane seems to be descending at a fairly rapid fpm, while still level. All it takes is a 16 percent angle of attack to stall or get near a stall. Looking at the ailerons, he didn't realize the left gear wasn't in great shape. Easy to Monday morning this one, but on further review he should have flown down the runway a bit and collected his thoughts. Don't know if Big Ford was ahead of him still on the active though. He did well enough to recover. . .
 
If it was a stall, it did come as he increased his bank angle, but he didn't look that slow...I know speed is deceptive. He also flew just under the area that the Ford was low and slow in, so wake turbulence could have played in. He did have plenty of forward speed, so maybe a combination.
 
Bonanza pilot just got back from a Doctors convention.
 
That thing looks like a death trap. Glad though that there are people much braver than I to try this stuff.
 
There is one that is worse than this one. I think it was named the Nighthawk and it was an flying wing sort of ultralight with the pilot laying prone with the head ahead of the leading edge. It did crash and the pilot is now in a wheelchair. Looking at the design, there was only a single tube as crash protection ahead of his head. Back in the 1980s or early 90's. Was written up in an EAA publication. Anyone else remember that one?
 
skyking3286 said:
There is one that is worse than this one. I think it was named the Nighthawk and it was an flying wing sort of ultralight with the pilot laying prone with the head ahead of the leading edge. It did crash and the pilot is now in a wheelchair. Looking at the design, there was only a single tube as crash protection ahead of his head. Back in the 1980s or early 90's. Was written up in an EAA publication. Anyone else remember that one?
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http://www.twitt.org/nhawk.htm
 
Lowflynjack said:
Here are the ones I can share so far... because EAA has shared them. I spent a lot of time shooting campsites and people this year. The air-to-air shots will come out later as usual. When you get to the polished 170, it goes into 2018 photos.

Coolest photo of the year was when the little boy asked me if he could show me his tattoo. I stopped traffic to get that shot!
EAA AirVenture Photos - Jack Fleetwood

48399771446_686a2fa228_b.jpg
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Do you know where I can go to look for arrival/departure pics? I came in Thursday and left Saturday
 
ktup-flyer said:
Do you know where I can go to look for arrival/departure pics? I came in Thursday and left Saturday
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I’m not sure who takes those photos. I don’t think it’s the EAA. Usually someone puts videos on YouTube.
 
Sometimes folks post OSH arrival/departure photos on airliners.net or jetphotos.net, but it might take a while for them to show up.

[Edit: Looks like there are already a few dozen 2019 OSH photos on jetphotos.net: https://www.jetphotos.com/showphotos.php?aircraft=all&airline=all&country-location=location%3BOshkosh%20Wittman%20Regional%20-%20KOSH&photographer-group=all&category=all&keywords-type=all&keywords-contain=3&keywords=KOSH&photo-year=all&genre=all&search-type=Advanced&sort-order=0

None yet on airliners.net, but a few may eventually show up. That site is more big-iron-oriented.]
 
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Thanks for the pics guys, hope to get there next year.
 
mcdewey said:
View attachment 76237
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That picture is so Oshkosh.

Fiveslide said:
You must not be a big enough celebrity. You have to become a 'that guy'. @Radar Contact is 'that guy' that flies with 'that girl' on the YouTube.

What are you going to do to become a 'that guy'? Better make it good!
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All @SixPapaCharlie needs to do is put @Mrs. SixPapaCharlie into his videos, judging by the speed with which all of you were falling all over yourselves calling dibs on her on that one thread... :rofl:

Banjo33 said:
I can understand the pressure he must have felt, right in front of show center, no one wants to be the guy that has to go around in front of EVERYONE
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Much better to be the guy that goes around in front of everyone than the guy that prangs his plane in front of everyone. Pilots generally respect good decisionmaking.

ktup-flyer said:
Here you go. Looks like wake turbulence to me.
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That doesn't look like wake turbulence at all to me. He's in a very steady state turning descent pretty much the whole time, he just doesn't arrest it. Someone needs to tell him that you *can* land *past* the dot you're assigned...

It doesn't look like either wake turbulence or a stall to me... Just someone who isn't familiar with that approach (the VFR arrival to 18R). It's VERY different than normal operations, with a very low base-to-final turn and immediate flare and landing. This is a good thing to have practiced before you have to do it on site because it's very different. I'm guessing that the pilot has something he does upon turning final during normal operations (adding the last notch of flaps, maybe? Or double-checking for three greens?) that he did out of habit, taking his attention away from the sights out the window momentarily.

Someone pointed out to me (and I later observed) that they were avoiding using 18R this year because this is the most dangerous approach, using 36L/R even when there was a fairly significant tailwind. Maybe that avoidance isn't a new thing, but out of the 40 or so times I've flown the arrival, I've only gone into 18R twice. However, I don't remember ever landing there with a tailwind.
 
@flyingcheesehead

From the pilot himself (we're in the same FB group):

"...
This was wake turb from the trimotor. My recovery was right aileron, right rudder, and full power. These inputs stopped the roll but didn't level the wings. Because the vortex was holding me in a left bank, the right rudder I added put the airplane into a slip. Thankfully, I actually had extra airspeed from the beginning which allowed me to add the necessary back pressure to keep the aircraft from smashing into the ground.
..."

He said he'll have a more detailed writeup after everything is sorted out with FAA.

I'll give the guy credit for making this a learning moment for himself and a teaching moment for others.
 
Matthew said:
"...
This was wake turb from the trimotor. My recovery was right aileron, right rudder, and full power. These inputs stopped the roll but didn't level the wings. Because the vortex was holding me in a left bank, the right rudder I added put the airplane into a slip. Thankfully, I actually had extra airspeed from the beginning which allowed me to add the necessary back pressure to keep the aircraft from smashing into the ground.
..."
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Watching it full screen, I see what he's saying. I'm surprised the Trimotor would be able to do that to a Bo, but I'm wondering if the V-tail contributed - Full right "rudder" would give some left rolling moment, and "elevator" effectiveness could be affected as well - While the ruddervators are longer/larger than plain old rudders/elevators, when trying to use both to maximum effect I would much rather have separate controls. The right-hand one, in particular, essentially conflicts with itself. The left-hand one goes up/in for both the right rudder and the up elevator, but the right-hand one would want to go down/out for right rudder and up/in for up elevator. It seems like the effectiveness of both would be compromised in this situation, possibly leading to the inability to arrest the descent.

@SCCutler and other V-tail flyers... If you go, for example, to full up elevator, and then add right rudder - Is there any additional travel in the left ruddervator to add to the "right rudder"? Does adding right rudder cause the right ruddervator to come back up?
 
Yeah, after watching it a few more times it does look like it was getting rolled pretty hard.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That doesn't look like wake turbulence at all to me. He's in a very steady state turning descent pretty much the whole time, he just doesn't arrest it. Someone needs to tell him that you *can* land *past* the dot you're assigned...

It doesn't look like either wake turbulence or a stall to me... Just someone who isn't familiar with that approach (the VFR arrival to 18R). It's VERY different than normal operations, with a very low base-to-final turn and immediate flare and landing.
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This.
 
kyleb said:
This.
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You must have missed my next reply after the info from the pilot where I agreed that it was potentially wake turbulence, at least some sort of odd rolling moment...

Of course, now that I look at it yet again, it does not appear that the pilot was fully deflecting the controls in the direction he needed to.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You must have missed my next reply after the info from the pilot where I agreed that it was potentially wake turbulence, at least some sort of odd rolling moment...

Of course, now that I look at it yet again, it does not appear that the pilot was fully deflecting the controls in the direction he needed to.
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I didn't miss the second one. But I *agreed* with the first one. ;-)

I saw the exact same thing as you. Whatever was going on (I think he was just nose down in a bank at low altitude and flew it into the ground to hit a dot), he didn't use all of the available control authority to bring the airplane to a safe touchdown. I did note that the left ruddervator moved to a significant nose-up (or yaw right) position, but there was not a lot of aileron movement from what I could see. I couldn't tell what the right ruddervator was doing...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This is the kind of thing I dreamed about building and flying when I was a little kid.
Good to see some people never grow up.

View attachment 76444
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That’s a fascinating machine. I talked to the inventor/builder/pilot, who is from Japan. He was inspired by something fictional (movie or comic book, I don’t recall which) and wanted to make something real just like it.

It’s a jet powered glider. Controls consist of a brake (from a bicycle) and a throttle. Pitch and roll are controlled solely by body weight-shifting. Like a hang glider, I think he said. It has no yaw control, which he told me is again like a hang glider.

He gave me a glossy handout, and the specs include a max weight that’s only 170 pounds more than the dry weight. Which works I guess for a small thin Japanese person who isn’t going far.

I really admired his whole endeavor, having an inspiration, designing a different kind of aircraft from scratch, and test flying it, and bringing it to America to show in the Homebuilders hangar at Oshkosh.
 
Wake turbulence my six. Might have gotten into the Trimotor's prop wash. I'd expect to were I that close to the thing. I prefer to do my yanking and banking at a somewhat higher altitude. Oshkosh controllers are perfectly fine with you saying "unable".

Steingar, the guy who went around at Oshkosh right in front of everyone, and didn't give a rat's assay when any of them thought about it.
 
steingar said:
I prefer to do my yanking and banking at a somewhat higher altitude. Oshkosh controllers are perfectly fine with you saying "unable".
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Unless it means that you're not following the NOTAM, which would be the case here. The NOTAM page for the approach to 18R specifically says that you need to start descending when you turn onto the extended downwind, and that you should plan to touch down on the pink dot, and that you may NOT go farther north than the blue dot... The distance from blue to pink is 1500', and the radius of a 20-degree banked turn at 70 knots is 1200'. That means that, if you do it right, you roll out of your turn with 300 feet to go before touchdown, which at 70 knots is 2.5 seconds.

That Bonanza was following the NOTAM... And so was the Trimotor, for that matter. That's why you see them fly the same path. If you're truly "unable" to fly the NOTAM, please don't fly into Oshkosh.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Unless it means that you're not following the NOTAM, which would be the case here. The NOTAM page for the approach to 18R specifically says that you need to start descending when you turn onto the extended downwind, and that you should plan to touch down on the pink dot, and that you may NOT go farther north than the blue dot... The distance from blue to pink is 1500', and the radius of a 20-degree banked turn at 70 knots is 1200'. That means that, if you do it right, you roll out of your turn with 300 feet to go before touchdown, which at 70 knots is 2.5 seconds.

That Bonanza was following the NOTAM... And so was the Trimotor, for that matter. That's why you see them fly the same path. If you're truly "unable" to fly the NOTAM, please don't fly into Oshkosh.
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You can see the Bonanza touch down just after the pink dot, this was well after smacking the rwy. I'm don't think he was not in the "gotta get 'er down" mode and hit hard because of that, he still had a long way to go.
 
Matthew said:
You can see the Bonanza touch down just after the pink dot, this was well after smacking the rwy. I'm don't think he was not in the "gotta get 'er down" mode and hit hard because of that, he still had a long way to go.
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Yup... I'm sure he didn't mean to fall out of the sky!
 
Matthew said:
You can see the Bonanza touch down just after the pink dot, this was well after smacking the rwy. I'm don't think he was not in the "gotta get 'er down" mode and hit hard because of that, he still had a long way to go.
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It would be interesting to hear the tower audio. The dots aren't always the aiming point. I've been told to land on the numbers. Alternately, I've been told to fly it as far down the runway as I could.
 
kyleb said:
It would be interesting to hear the tower audio. The dots aren't always the aiming point. I've been told to land on the numbers. Alternately, I've been told to fly it as far down the runway as I could.
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You'll never be told to land on the numbers for 18R... There's a taxiway crossing the runway there, with a marshaller stationed on the concrete. @nddons has worked that position before...
 
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