Oshkosh - 2018

They had to shut down runway 9 for about 15-20 minutes while they back-taxied the Mooney’s from 36 to the west side of the airport. My friend was on right base when that happened. Had to head back to Rush, then Green for another hour.

Nobody ended up happy. I’m thinking tomorrow will be intense too.
 
I found it kind of irritating that after we've been in the hold for over an hour they said the airports open, wait nevermind we have amassed Bonanza arrival we have to shut it down for another 30 minutes keep waiting
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I found it kind of irritating that after we've been in the hold for over an hour they said the airports open, wait nevermind we have amassed Bonanza arrival we have to shut it down for another 30 minutes keep waiting
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Coordination did not seem to be very good today...
 
I'm at Brennand. Several people landed here low on fuel after doing as many as 8 Ripon approaches and being told to break off and try again. I am damn glad I came via Subaru this year. Good luck to everyone tomorrow.
 
I will probably get flamed for saying this, but the mass arrivals seem to do more harm than good. When I arrived, they good parking had already been reserved for all the mass arrivals. The Mooneys took more than 24 hours to show up to their spot. I understand there was weather, but it seems like avoiding the Fisk approach both helps them and hurts all the people holding at the lakes. Defeats the purpose of having the approach for everyone to do.

Was that the Cirrus mass arrival pulling chutes over the Hilton?
 
We are camped at KUNU. Previously stopped at KDLL for fuel and a break. Did at least 4 or 5 turns around Green Lake each time. I was past Ripon when a plane dive bombed me from above and they sent us all away and closed shop.

The tailwheel emergency, sick passenger, alternator (alternate is in the name!), and bingo fuel people are the joke du jour. Every single one of those would have been smarter to go to an alternate. There are tons of alternates.

Be safe and be polite. You’ll get in faster if you play nice.
 
aggie06 said:
I will probably get flamed for saying this, but the mass arrivals seem to do more harm than good. When I arrived, they good parking had already been reserved for all the mass arrivals. The Mooneys took more than 24 hours to show up to their spot. I understand there was weather, but it seems like avoiding the Fisk approach both helps them and hurts all the people holding at the lakes. Defeats the purpose of having the approach for everyone to do.

Was that the Cirrus mass arrival pulling chutes over the Hilton?
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It is a double edge sword. I would like to do a mass arrival at some point but it will probably eat into my Oshkosh time. Is it worth it to arrive somewhere else for 2-3 days before the show and only get a couple of days at the show? When the weather is good we don't have any of these issues. The slightest hiccup though and it's a **** show.

iamtheari said:
We are camped at KUNU. Previously stopped at KDLL for fuel and a break. Did at least 4 or 5 turns around Green Lake each time. I was past Ripon when a plane dive bombed me from above and they sent us all away and closed shop.

The tailwheel emergency, sick passenger, alternator (alternate is in the name!), and bingo fuel people are the joke du jour. Every single one of those would have been smarter to go to an alternate. There are tons of alternates.

Be safe and be polite. You’ll get in faster if you play nice.
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I cringed when they started letting people in due to low fuel and sick passengers. It was all the definition of get there itis. If you are your passenger are sick do everyone a favor and just get down at the closest safest field. I will be the first to pat ATC on the back but they made some missteps today IMO.
1. As mentioned letting people in that they deemed had good excuses
2. Closing and reopening and I know this is EAA too but all you did was tell everyone in the hold that they were not as important as the mass arrivals and other stuff.
3. At the end either close it or don't and stick to the rules period. Don't tell everyone to turn away and then when someone complains about going around 23 times let them in. Same goes for letting the RV-6 come straight in from Fisk at 7:57.
4. Don't blame the stop on EAA as the FAA probably had just as much to do with that as EAA.

Just my opinions and I am being the armchair pilot here. I hope all of the controllers and pilots that dealt with that are drinking cold Spotted Cows right now.
 
Sounds like weather really bunched things up this year.
I like to get in on Saturday, so I can watch the Sunday fun from the ground.
Latest I have ever crossed Ripon going in to OSH was 0700 (arrivals opening time) on Sunday morning in 2015 after a mechanical problem on the Friday cost me a day and a half. There were already 5 planes ahead of me at that time in the morning.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I will never come here on Sunday again. I was in the hold for 3 hours. I cannot believe there was not a mid-air or a bunch of them I have never been so scared in my life in a plane.
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One of my personal minimums is "never hold". Go elsewhere. Anywhere else, and wait. Holding is like staring death in the face. It isn't worth it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I found it kind of irritating that after we've been in the hold for over an hour they said the airports open, wait nevermind we have amassed Bonanza arrival we have to shut it down for another 30 minutes keep waiting
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Cykoguy said:
Coordination did not seem to be very good today...
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The mass arrivals have always had priority since they’re strung out over a few miles and a LOT of airplanes. They’re a very efficient way to arrive but...

They’re usually not scheduled for peak arrival on Sunday. They’re usually earlier. But when weather delays them then they back up into Sunday, Monday, whatever.

tmcquinn said:
I'm at Brennand. Several people landed here low on fuel after doing as many as 8 Ripon approaches and being told to break off and try again. I am damn glad I came via Subaru this year. Good luck to everyone tomorrow.
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The guy who begged to let him in on lap 24 has them beat, if it was true. :) They let him in. Ha.
 
The FISK controllers, usually so amazing, were totally screwed up today.

First, they didn't follow the NOTAM, and insisted on one mile in trail, rather than the usual 1/2 mile. This was, of course, impossible with the number of aircraft in the air.

They then became flustered and obviously upset that pilots weren't following those impossible instructions. Once flustered by the volume, instead of taking, say, every third plane (and sending the other two back to the hold), as they have done every year for 20 years, they freaked out and sent the ENTIRE LINE OF PLANES FROM RIPON TO FISK back to the hold.

They did this multiple times. All at once.

The resulting ****show was entirely predictable. Instead of the too-close traffic being broken into manageable chunks, the whole mass would re-enter the Green Lake hold -- still too close together.

Meanwhile, of course, more planes were coming up the tracks. More were sent back to the hold, en masse.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Add delays caused by mass arrivals. Soon, it was a maelstrom over the lakes.

We were there. For 3.5 hours in the hold. Eventually, after being turned away at FISK three (3) times, we bugged out to Wautoma -- along with a hundred or so other aircraft. (2 of which were involved with landing accidents there, but that's another story.)

What a day. The worst we have ever experienced, in 36 years at OSH!

On the plus side, our daughter picked us up in Wautoma, and drive us to our campsite in Row 509, which was already set up by our advance team. :)

So the HOPS party is on for Wednesday! Look for the big Texas flag.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
I agree with Jay, I was listening to it live from my living in Oklahoma and was wondering why they keep turning back the whole group. At about 6:30pm they started taking 1 or 2 from the bunch and turning the rest back. At least some were getting in then.
 
They go to a mile in trail when one of the runways isn’t accepting arrivals.

Not saying they were as good as previous years but part of it was the tower accepting and then not accepting arrivals on different runways for whatever reasons.

And yeah, I’ve seen them pull it off with only a half mile in trail to a single runway before so I know... it can be done... I know...

It also seemed like a LOT of aircraft weren’t listening or weren’t rocking wings when they did attempt to peel aircraft off to go in. There was a LOT of repeats for aircraft to acknowledge with wing rocks that went completely ignored.

I noticed wherever someone did get peeled off it was almost always said “nice rock” (as in they did an aggressive one and the controller knew they were listening) and an immediate turn the moment the controller asked for it.

There was also an incredible amount of “there’s six of you directly over Fisk, that’s not going to work, all of you turn west, go back out, get in trail, and try again”. Huge amounts of that. Way too much.
 
Jay Honeck said:
The FISK controllers, usually so amazing, were totally screwed up today.

First, they didn't follow the NOTAM, and insisted on one mile in trail, rather than the usual 1/2 mile. This was, of course, impossible with the number of aircraft in the air.

They then became flustered and obviously upset that pilots weren't following those impossible instructions. Once flustered by the volume, instead of taking, say, every third plane (and sending the other two back to the hold), as they have done every year for 20 years, they freaked out and sent the ENTIRE LINE OF PLANES FROM RIPON TO FISK back to the hold.

They did this multiple times. All at once.

The resulting ****show was entirely predictable. Instead of the too-close traffic being broken into manageable chunks, the whole mass would re-enter the Green Lake hold -- still too close together.

Meanwhile, of course, more planes were coming up the tracks. More were sent back to the hold, en masse.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Add delays caused by mass arrivals. Soon, it was a maelstrom over the lakes.

We were there. For 3.5 hours in the hold. Eventually, after being turned away at FISK three (3) times, we bugged out to Wautoma -- along with a hundred or so other aircraft. (2 of which were involved with landing accidents there, but that's another story.)

What a day. The worst we have ever experienced, in 36 years at OSH!

On the plus side, our daughter picked us up in Wautoma, and drive us to our campsite in Row 509, which was already set up by our advance team. :)

So the HOPS party is on for Wednesday! Look for the big Texas flag.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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Is it okay if I pre-drank part of the six pack I am bringing in? We kind of needed it tonight. I’m looking forward to seeing some of you wild and crazy folks this week. If I actually get in!
 
Craig Hammond said:
I agree with Jay, I was listening to it live from my living in Oklahoma and was wondering why they keep turning back the whole group. At about 6:30pm they started taking 1 or 2 from the bunch and turning the rest back. At least some were getting in then.
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Right after that, there was an exchange that had me laughing:

Controller: “XxxNT where are you parking?”

Pilot( VERY thick Aussie accent) : “ parking at Humboldt”

(Pause)

Controller: “ Uhh, where is Humboldt Parking”

Pilot: “ Right over there, next to Wo-arbird Parking!”

It was about 6:32pm. Would make a great tape for ATC memes, or even Someone we know”.
 
We’ll see how much of this surge carries into this morning. The site says camping and parking are open, but ‘extremely close to filling’. I’d rather not the Fond du Lac bus, but that’s plan B.
 
There has been a solid stream to 27 since 7am. Hope they pause at some point so the B-1 can wake everyone up.
 
It sounds like it’s going down the sheeter. Folk are following to close. Pilots are breaking in and snarling at each other
 
Controller just told everyone to quit using waypoints and get over the tracks. Now he just broke everyone out and said don’t come back for 20 minutes.
 
luvflyin said:
Controller just told everyone to quit using waypoints and get over the tracks. Now he just broke everyone out and said don’t come back for 20 minutes.
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This is my first time in and I have been astonished at the lack of attention to the NOTAM. Holding wrong direction. Going 75 knots. GPS direct to Fisk. People cutting in after Ripon. People dive bombing into line from above with about 250 feet spacing instead of a mile.
 
Seems like the USAF screwed everything up with the B-1 arrival.....
 
iamtheari said:
This is my first time in and I have been astonished at the lack of attention to the NOTAM. Holding wrong direction. Going 75 knots. GPS direct to Fisk. People cutting in after Ripon. People dive bombing into line from above with about 250 feet spacing instead of a mile.
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Yeah.
 
fasteddie said:
Seems like the USAF screwed everything up with the B-1 arrival.....
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I thought The Green Dot podcast said he was going to make some loud low passes. That was only one low-ish, not all that loud pass.
 
Schit show is too kind this morning...
Both runways now closed
 
Aire Coupe low fuel emergency coming in against opposite traffic on 9
 
Listening at my desk right now. They just started sending everybody to Rush Lake.
 
iamtheari said:
This is my first time in and I have been astonished at the lack of attention to the NOTAM. Holding wrong direction. Going 75 knots. GPS direct to Fisk. People cutting in after Ripon. People dive bombing into line from above with about 250 feet spacing instead of a mile.
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Last year on Sunday morning one of the controllers told a pilot to leave the area, go land somewhere else, get a copy of the NOTAM, read it and try again.
 
Now people are speaking up about being fuel critical and over heating. Fisk said something about figuring things out at the airport. Wonder if all the parking and camping spots are full and they are going to shut it down. Someone needs to use this years recordings as a what not to do. Someone just called out an RV for flying over them. Lots of chatter this morning.
 
Oh, man. Controller just asked if there was anyone else with an emergency or fuel critical. Of course now everyone is fuel critical.

I had to turn it off.
 
So...for future reference, from a traffic perspective, what is the best day to arrive at Air Venture?
 
hearing a lot more "you cut me off"..."yeah well I got cut off twice"...."waahhh"..."my radio is staticky, I need to declare waahhh"
 
bluesky74656 said:
Oh, man. Controller just asked if there was anyone else with an emergency or fuel critical. Of course now everyone is fuel critical.
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This is one thing that bothers me about the idea of going to OSH. I’d love to take the Waco, but the idea of having to hold for an hour plus in an airplane that only carries 2.5 hours of fuel when full and not-so-great forward visibility is concerning....
 
Oh my word. I flew in last year on Sunday and it painless. This year I'm glad I stayed home!
 
No excuse for getting so low on fuel you have to go to osh. The decision to go somewhere else for gas should have been made before that.
 
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